SHOULD THE MOTOR INDUSTRY BE BAILED OUT BY TAXPAYERS?
Discussion
I have been reading on the news the last few weeks that car manufacturers require goverment "taxpayers" money to help them.
I sympathise with all the people in the uk who may have lost there jobs but car dealerships not manufacturers,i feel have been overpricing cars for the past few years and now,there is thousands of new cars stockpiled that will eventually come down in price by a huge margin.
Used cars have also increased in retail value due to the downturn of new sales,but dealers are still offering people pennies for cars as trade ins.
I just traded in my last car which was an 07,max offer was £7500,I bought my new "used" car at £11500 2 weeks ago and if i trade my car in now i will get no more than £9000 but have been told the car will still retail at £11500.
What i also noticed was my trade in was retailing at £10000 and is now sold.
I understand they have overheads etc but when we are getting unfair deals from car dealers they start to loose sympathy.
If cars were priced correctly and the car dealers hadn't spent years making huge profits from overpricing,turnover would always be steady.
I sympathise with all the people in the uk who may have lost there jobs but car dealerships not manufacturers,i feel have been overpricing cars for the past few years and now,there is thousands of new cars stockpiled that will eventually come down in price by a huge margin.
Used cars have also increased in retail value due to the downturn of new sales,but dealers are still offering people pennies for cars as trade ins.
I just traded in my last car which was an 07,max offer was £7500,I bought my new "used" car at £11500 2 weeks ago and if i trade my car in now i will get no more than £9000 but have been told the car will still retail at £11500.
What i also noticed was my trade in was retailing at £10000 and is now sold.
I understand they have overheads etc but when we are getting unfair deals from car dealers they start to loose sympathy.
If cars were priced correctly and the car dealers hadn't spent years making huge profits from overpricing,turnover would always be steady.
terminator001 said:
I have been reading on the news the last few weeks that car manufacturers require goverment "taxpayers" money to help them.
I sympathise with all the people in the uk who may have lost there jobs but car dealerships not manufacturers,i feel have been overpricing cars for the past few years and now,there is thousands of new cars stockpiled that will eventually come down in price by a huge margin.
Used cars have also increased in retail value due to the downturn of new sales,but dealers are still offering people pennies for cars as trade ins.
I just traded in my last car which was an 07,max offer was £7500,I bought my new "used" car at £11500 2 weeks ago and if i trade my car in now i will get no more than £9000 but have been told the car will still retail at £11500.
What i also noticed was my trade in was retailing at £10000 and is now sold.
I understand they have overheads etc but when we are getting unfair deals from car dealers they start to loose sympathy.
If cars were priced correctly and the car dealers hadn't spent years making huge profits from overpricing,turnover would always be steady.
Hang on a minute! Your headline asks [SHOULD THE MOTOR INDUSTRY BE BAILED OUT BY THE TAXPAYER] and all you do is have a bit of a rant about how ripped off you feel when you buy a car ! Sorry but this is irrelevant. Pygmy tribes who are yet to be discovered know that cars are not immune to massive depreciation and that dealers will try to make a large profit on your trade in as well as the car they sell you. I sympathise with all the people in the uk who may have lost there jobs but car dealerships not manufacturers,i feel have been overpricing cars for the past few years and now,there is thousands of new cars stockpiled that will eventually come down in price by a huge margin.
Used cars have also increased in retail value due to the downturn of new sales,but dealers are still offering people pennies for cars as trade ins.
I just traded in my last car which was an 07,max offer was £7500,I bought my new "used" car at £11500 2 weeks ago and if i trade my car in now i will get no more than £9000 but have been told the car will still retail at £11500.
What i also noticed was my trade in was retailing at £10000 and is now sold.
I understand they have overheads etc but when we are getting unfair deals from car dealers they start to loose sympathy.
If cars were priced correctly and the car dealers hadn't spent years making huge profits from overpricing,turnover would always be steady.
AS for 'should the tax payer bail out the car industry'? Well seeing as the car industry employs and provides hundreds of thousands of people with work in this country and they are tax payers themselves then we can assume that the money given by the tax payer is money that has in part over the years come from the contributions of the motor industry. If this industry did not exist it would cost far more to keep the workers on benefits than to bail out the car makers.
AS for the over priced dealers, you can be happy in the knowledge that your over priced new car will provide extra VAT which will then go back in to supporting the British workers. Now what better reason could you want for buying an over priced car!
chard said:
Buy a new car today. You know it makes sense.
I note that I can get a special GM Partners deal on a NEW Insignia for £12456 through work, a 1.8 vectra for £9400, an Astra for £7K or a Corsa for £5.5K All of which seemed fair and reasonable prices.
However I've decided that I'll just service the 2 cars I own using Vauxhall Trade Club parts at trade prices and save myself a few £KK's,
I don't see why taxpayers money should be used to support excessive production capacity - there are just too many cars being built. The industry (unfortunately) needs to contract to a point where it is sustainable. Cars will probably become more expensive as a result - to be honest, at the moment they seem really cheap to me when compared to other engineered items.
Over production in a shrinking market.
NO, not a good idea to spend our taxes on.
Lots of robots will be silent for some time to come.
Little British car manufacture left anyway.
Honda-UK and Nissen-UK have cut production, so jobs will be lost, but that in itself can't be used to justify bailing them out.
If Brits bought Brit made cars, as the French seem to do, our home made car makers would not need bailing out??
Go out and buy a new British made car is the best way to save the UK.
Borrow from a Brit bank (Lloyds?) to support the sytem and we might get through?? Just whis I could find one I liked enough for me to do it myself.
NO, not a good idea to spend our taxes on.
Lots of robots will be silent for some time to come.
Little British car manufacture left anyway.
Honda-UK and Nissen-UK have cut production, so jobs will be lost, but that in itself can't be used to justify bailing them out.
If Brits bought Brit made cars, as the French seem to do, our home made car makers would not need bailing out??
Go out and buy a new British made car is the best way to save the UK.
Borrow from a Brit bank (Lloyds?) to support the sytem and we might get through?? Just whis I could find one I liked enough for me to do it myself.
VPower said:
Over production in a shrinking market.
NO, not a good idea to spend our taxes on.
Lots of robots will be silent for some time to come.
Little British car manufacture left anyway.
Honda-UK and Nissen-UK have cut production, so jobs will be lost, but that in itself can't be used to justify bailing them out.
If Brits bought Brit made cars, as the French seem to do, our home made car makers would not need bailing out??
Go out and buy a new British made car is the best way to save the UK.
Borrow from a Brit bank (Lloyds?) to support the sytem and we might get through?? Just whis I could find one I liked enough for me to do it myself.
I've got a new caterham r500 coming in may so i've done my bit for the uk car industry!!NO, not a good idea to spend our taxes on.
Lots of robots will be silent for some time to come.
Little British car manufacture left anyway.
Honda-UK and Nissen-UK have cut production, so jobs will be lost, but that in itself can't be used to justify bailing them out.
If Brits bought Brit made cars, as the French seem to do, our home made car makers would not need bailing out??
Go out and buy a new British made car is the best way to save the UK.
Borrow from a Brit bank (Lloyds?) to support the sytem and we might get through?? Just whis I could find one I liked enough for me to do it myself.
Martin
Preservation of the remaining british brands is essential to the future of the UK.I'm not saying throw money at them in the same ignorant manner as has been done with the banks, but however, it has to be done. Let's not repeat Mrs T's mistakes ansd just scrap what's left of british industry for a mirage of a future which is unlikely to happen.
cardigankid said:
Preservation of the remaining british brands is essential to the future of the UK.
Not really. What's essential to the UK is it makes something that both its own citizens and those abroad want to buy in sufficient quantities for the enterprise to be a going concern. The UK car industry has failed to do that for years. The taxpayer has had plenty of chances to "save" UK marques but has preferred to buy imported marques instead.In reply to OP, no.
There is a unimaginably large market for vehicles or devices to move us around, its just that the current products/methods are nearing their sell by date, ie expensive (relative to income levels), innefficient etc and some new innovation is needed to revive investment, both in manufacturing, and indeed for us as individuals to invest in.
Innovation is the only real solution to our current woes (which could be supported with tax payers money if controlled correctly), not pouring billions away in aesthmatic industries....and do not get me onto the coorporate bankers...
Innovation is the only real solution to our current woes (which could be supported with tax payers money if controlled correctly), not pouring billions away in aesthmatic industries....and do not get me onto the coorporate bankers...
bosscerbera said:
cardigankid said:
Preservation of the remaining british brands is essential to the future of the UK.
Not really. What's essential to the UK is it makes something that both its own citizens and those abroad want to buy in sufficient quantities for the enterprise to be a going concern. The UK car industry has failed to do that for years. The taxpayer has had plenty of chances to "save" UK marques but has preferred to buy imported marques instead.To let them go would be to repeat the well intentioned mistakes of the Thatcher period when we virtually ceased to be a manufacturing nation. New industries don't just spring up fully formed ready to do battle in the international arena, they grow gradually, and I guess that if we don't have much domestic manufacturing they won't grow at all. Cars, by the way, are as modern and as relevant as anything, and if you don't think so what are you doing here?
cardigankid said:
bosscerbera said:
cardigankid said:
Preservation of the remaining british brands is essential to the future of the UK.
Not really. What's essential to the UK is it makes something that both its own citizens and those abroad want to buy in sufficient quantities for the enterprise to be a going concern. The UK car industry has failed to do that for years. The taxpayer has had plenty of chances to "save" UK marques but has preferred to buy imported marques instead.To let them go would be to repeat the well intentioned mistakes of the Thatcher period when we virtually ceased to be a manufacturing nation. New industries don't just spring up fully formed ready to do battle in the international arena, they grow gradually, and I guess that if we don't have much domestic manufacturing they won't grow at all. Cars, by the way, are as modern and as relevant as anything, and if you don't think so what are you doing here?
t, they'd buy these cars. Interesting you cite the 70s when government last got busy with bailing the UK car industry. Great wasn't it?
On Bentley/Aston Martin, they have "succeeded" by brand dispersion - making the aspirational affordable, going downmarket, call it what you like. Trouble is, it's unsustainable. Every year of "record sales" erodes the exclusivity and kills the residuals, reducing the desire to own and increasing the cost of ownership.
should we bail them out?
erm...no
why should we bail them out?
they have hundreds (if not thousands) of cars in stocks, what does everyone do when there is a huge supply and no demand?
REDUCE THE PRICE CONSIDERABLY!!!!
let them sell them at a low price, then we would start buying them (here comes a rant)
in my opinion they are producing too many, i mean the market is at saturation point
if they just limited the number of cars they produced then they would sell them all, the cars would retain their value and everyone would be happy right?
also i think there are a lot of things that make the price of cars way to high
regulations mean we cant do what was done before, like the original Mini (thanks to the need of crumple zones etc)
i really am contemplating calling BMW, getting a license to use the Mini badge and rebuild the old mini? that would be fantastic, they are so small and simple that they could be soooo cheap to produce and sell, and everyone loves the original mini? so there is my market, price: i could aim for 4K buying ford units and parts maybe (something cheap) very little material is used in them?
wish i had the time but i am at Uni
and thats my rant done thanks for reading you have been a great audience, god night everyone lol
erm...no
why should we bail them out?
they have hundreds (if not thousands) of cars in stocks, what does everyone do when there is a huge supply and no demand?
REDUCE THE PRICE CONSIDERABLY!!!!
let them sell them at a low price, then we would start buying them (here comes a rant)
in my opinion they are producing too many, i mean the market is at saturation point
if they just limited the number of cars they produced then they would sell them all, the cars would retain their value and everyone would be happy right?
also i think there are a lot of things that make the price of cars way to high
regulations mean we cant do what was done before, like the original Mini (thanks to the need of crumple zones etc)
i really am contemplating calling BMW, getting a license to use the Mini badge and rebuild the old mini? that would be fantastic, they are so small and simple that they could be soooo cheap to produce and sell, and everyone loves the original mini? so there is my market, price: i could aim for 4K buying ford units and parts maybe (something cheap) very little material is used in them?
wish i had the time but i am at Uni
and thats my rant done thanks for reading you have been a great audience, god night everyone lol
Speedjunkie said:
should we bail them out?
erm...no
why should we bail them out?
they have hundreds (if not thousands) of cars in stocks, what does everyone do when there is a huge supply and no demand?
REDUCE THE PRICE CONSIDERABLY!!!!
let them sell them at a low price, then we would start buying them (here comes a rant)
in my opinion they are producing too many, i mean the market is at saturation point
if they just limited the number of cars they produced then they would sell them all, the cars would retain their value and everyone would be happy right?
also i think there are a lot of things that make the price of cars way to high
regulations mean we cant do what was done before, like the original Mini (thanks to the need of crumple zones etc)
i really am contemplating calling BMW, getting a license to use the Mini badge and rebuild the old mini? that would be fantastic, they are so small and simple that they could be soooo cheap to produce and sell, and everyone loves the original mini? so there is my market, price: i could aim for 4K buying ford units and parts maybe (something cheap) very little material is used in them?
wish i had the time but i am at Uni
and thats my rant done thanks for reading you have been a great audience, god night everyone lol
Great to see you youngsters still thinking you can take on the world and beat it!erm...no
why should we bail them out?
they have hundreds (if not thousands) of cars in stocks, what does everyone do when there is a huge supply and no demand?
REDUCE THE PRICE CONSIDERABLY!!!!
let them sell them at a low price, then we would start buying them (here comes a rant)
in my opinion they are producing too many, i mean the market is at saturation point
if they just limited the number of cars they produced then they would sell them all, the cars would retain their value and everyone would be happy right?
also i think there are a lot of things that make the price of cars way to high
regulations mean we cant do what was done before, like the original Mini (thanks to the need of crumple zones etc)
i really am contemplating calling BMW, getting a license to use the Mini badge and rebuild the old mini? that would be fantastic, they are so small and simple that they could be soooo cheap to produce and sell, and everyone loves the original mini? so there is my market, price: i could aim for 4K buying ford units and parts maybe (something cheap) very little material is used in them?
wish i had the time but i am at Uni
and thats my rant done thanks for reading you have been a great audience, god night everyone lol
Sad to say at my age, I think you would soon sell at the highest price you can get.
Just look at what they want for this!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELECTRIC-SCOOTER-BRAND-NEW-B...
The little China made electric cars are going for £8k to £14k.
I really would buy one of those electric cars for £4k!
But at today's petrol prices £4k would get me 25,000 miles, or two years personal motoring.
why should I bother?
bosscerbera said:
cardigankid said:
Preservation of the remaining british brands is essential to the future of the UK.
Not really. What's essential to the UK is it makes something that both its own citizens and those abroad want to buy in sufficient quantities for the enterprise to be a going concern. The UK car industry has failed to do that for years. The taxpayer has had plenty of chances to "save" UK marques but has preferred to buy imported marques instead.In reply to OP, no.
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