Z3M and Z3 3.0
Discussion
Any owners/ex-owners able to comment? Just been browsing the classifieds and these seem to do everything!
I haven't seen performance figures, but I'd assume they're quite brisk with 321hp?
Reasonably common (at least in non-M form) so presumably safe to leave out on the street without unwanted attention?
Mass produced quality control and reliability, so presumably they neither tend to leak nor break down?
Not a what car thread as such, but I'm contemplating going down to two cars at some point in the future and although my TVR has been pretty dependable it's a little bit conspicuous left outside work and I'm not sur how it would stand up to high mileages. On the face of it, the six cylinder Z3 sounds like like the impossible - a real sports car you can run on a sensible budget and use every day.
Can someone give an idea of the performance/handling differences between the regular 2.8/3.0 Z3 and the M and the sort of MPG figures they're likely to return in the suburbs?
I haven't seen performance figures, but I'd assume they're quite brisk with 321hp?
Reasonably common (at least in non-M form) so presumably safe to leave out on the street without unwanted attention?
Mass produced quality control and reliability, so presumably they neither tend to leak nor break down?
Not a what car thread as such, but I'm contemplating going down to two cars at some point in the future and although my TVR has been pretty dependable it's a little bit conspicuous left outside work and I'm not sur how it would stand up to high mileages. On the face of it, the six cylinder Z3 sounds like like the impossible - a real sports car you can run on a sensible budget and use every day.
Can someone give an idea of the performance/handling differences between the regular 2.8/3.0 Z3 and the M and the sort of MPG figures they're likely to return in the suburbs?
I had a Z3M, averaged 26mpg, cheap insurance (same as my 306 Rallye) and monstously fast. A hairy-chested TVR style car to use everyday imho. Most people just assumed it was a normal Z3, so it was fine to leave anywhere as well.
Even more amusing was the Boxster/S2000/SLK owners face when the 'gay Z3' buggered off surprisingly quickly .. Mine was GPS'd at 0-100mph in 11.4 with a 174mph top end, so quick enough
Even more amusing was the Boxster/S2000/SLK owners face when the 'gay Z3' buggered off surprisingly quickly .. Mine was GPS'd at 0-100mph in 11.4 with a 174mph top end, so quick enough
Edited by Sir_Dave on Thursday 12th February 17:52
Does sound very tempting. Although I love the TVR I'm not convinced it's suitable for every day use - if nothing else I suspect its more likely to get keyed, vandalised or broken into than a relatively subtle Z3.
The thinking behind it is twofold. Firstly, running two cars I always end up finding a nice bit of road in the wrong car. Secondly, now the OH is looking to get her own car I don't really need the practicality for myself (I can just nab hers when required
). However, I could also do to economise a little bit following a change of career. I relaise it's not a cheap option, but it would bring me down to effectively one car without getting bored. Having alredy done the MX5 thing (and having driven the S2000) I'm not sure that'd be quite enough to keep me entertained. I'd pine for the TVR back, even if it probably wouldn't cover ground as quickly - the Z, on the other hand, looks like it would push the right buttons.
Is it fair to assume that M Roadster running costs would be similar to that of an M3? Do they vary dramatically between the 3.0 and the M?
And what are the actual differences compared to the 2.8 or 3.0 Z3? While a bit more overtaking poke is always nice, the standard Z3 (in six cylinder guise) presumably has more than enough torque to make things interesting in the lower gears?
ETA: Couple more questions! Heard the tank range isn't a strong point with the M - how bad is it, and is this the same for the Z3 'sixes? Secondly, can someone explain how similar it is to the M Coupe mechanically? Is it 'same car, different shell' or is there more to it? Finally, can you fit a full size suitcase in the back?
Mostly just curious, but the more I thinking about it, the more it sounds like a genuine possibility.
The thinking behind it is twofold. Firstly, running two cars I always end up finding a nice bit of road in the wrong car. Secondly, now the OH is looking to get her own car I don't really need the practicality for myself (I can just nab hers when required
). However, I could also do to economise a little bit following a change of career. I relaise it's not a cheap option, but it would bring me down to effectively one car without getting bored. Having alredy done the MX5 thing (and having driven the S2000) I'm not sure that'd be quite enough to keep me entertained. I'd pine for the TVR back, even if it probably wouldn't cover ground as quickly - the Z, on the other hand, looks like it would push the right buttons.Is it fair to assume that M Roadster running costs would be similar to that of an M3? Do they vary dramatically between the 3.0 and the M?
And what are the actual differences compared to the 2.8 or 3.0 Z3? While a bit more overtaking poke is always nice, the standard Z3 (in six cylinder guise) presumably has more than enough torque to make things interesting in the lower gears?
ETA: Couple more questions! Heard the tank range isn't a strong point with the M - how bad is it, and is this the same for the Z3 'sixes? Secondly, can someone explain how similar it is to the M Coupe mechanically? Is it 'same car, different shell' or is there more to it? Finally, can you fit a full size suitcase in the back?
Mostly just curious, but the more I thinking about it, the more it sounds like a genuine possibility.
Edited by Chris71 on Thursday 12th February 19:17
ive got a 2.8 z3 its a facelift model with the fatter rear wheels and i can honestly say it is plenty powerfull, there is not much difference off the line between my z & monaro 6.0 vxr and mine has the extra weight of aircon as well, the press made a big deal of bad handling when they first came out but i have never had a problem with mine i would go for one with a hard top as it stiffens the car up a bit as well.
dan101smith said:
I've driven a Z3 3.0, and run an E36 M3 which is the same engine.
Performance is streets apart, it really is. The 3.0 is nippy, the Z3M is QUICK.
MPG - 3.0 high 20s, 3.2 low 20s.
The Z3 3.0 uses an M54B30Performance is streets apart, it really is. The 3.0 is nippy, the Z3M is QUICK.
MPG - 3.0 high 20s, 3.2 low 20s.
The e36 M3 (3.0) uses an S50B30
In laymans terms the m3's engine, while very powerful and high revving, is two generations (11 years in design terms) behind the z3's engine.
Tank range on my Z3M was about 230 miles, not too great, but not awful either. Running costs were far far cheaper than the M3 Evo as insurance was half the price!!
Performance was epic, certainly not something you'd get bored of quickly imho. Trying to combine both acceleration and corning would keep you occupied for years, sideways = fun ...
Performance was epic, certainly not something you'd get bored of quickly imho. Trying to combine both acceleration and corning would keep you occupied for years, sideways = fun ...
I can concede that the M coupe is properly fast, but requires commitment to run properly.
The 3.0 will be swift and easier to maintain.
This clip always made my lust for them grow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBE4AOI_yxk
The Cab, if it is anything like my mates old M3 vert will twist and be a bit woblly at WOT.
The 3.0 will be swift and easier to maintain.
This clip always made my lust for them grow...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBE4AOI_yxk
The Cab, if it is anything like my mates old M3 vert will twist and be a bit woblly at WOT.
Can someone explain a bit more how the coupe relates to the roadster? Is it the same rear suspension system for example? It seems to come in for a certain amount of flack in convertible form, but it seems the coupe can do no wrong - is that a case of increased body stiffness, another fundamental difference or just a spot of journalistic bias?
Can't deny I'd be tempted by the coupe too, but it seems a half decent Z3M can be had for about £8k, whereas you're looking firmly into double figures for the fixed head?
The other major thing is running costs. I like the idea of running a 'fun car' every day, but I commute through the suburbs - it's not central London, but it's definitely town driving. The question is whether or not the reduced cost of having basically one car (to service etc) would offset that of fuelling an M car every day, rather than a 1.6 Focus!
I suppose if nothing else I could sell the TVR, run the BMW as a second car to start with and swap over permanently if funds allowed. Damn it, does sound tempting, might give a call to my insurance company...
Can't deny I'd be tempted by the coupe too, but it seems a half decent Z3M can be had for about £8k, whereas you're looking firmly into double figures for the fixed head?
The other major thing is running costs. I like the idea of running a 'fun car' every day, but I commute through the suburbs - it's not central London, but it's definitely town driving. The question is whether or not the reduced cost of having basically one car (to service etc) would offset that of fuelling an M car every day, rather than a 1.6 Focus!
I suppose if nothing else I could sell the TVR, run the BMW as a second car to start with and swap over permanently if funds allowed. Damn it, does sound tempting, might give a call to my insurance company...
Chris,
As far as I know, the cab is just considered a bit twisty and its image lets it down. They dont look that outlandish compared to standard models so are considered to be of the 'hairdresser' Ilk.
If you own a TVR then you will be used to big bills, £1000 per service is not uncommon as other bits always need doing. Tyres, brakes and fuel, especially around town will all mount up.
Go for the M, anything less and you will be kicking yourself
Whilst the 3.0 may be swift, it will never be a patch in the 3.2
As far as I know, the cab is just considered a bit twisty and its image lets it down. They dont look that outlandish compared to standard models so are considered to be of the 'hairdresser' Ilk.
If you own a TVR then you will be used to big bills, £1000 per service is not uncommon as other bits always need doing. Tyres, brakes and fuel, especially around town will all mount up.
Go for the M, anything less and you will be kicking yourself
Whilst the 3.0 may be swift, it will never be a patch in the 3.2
That's a good point - what is the servicing schedule? My TVR is 'only' an S-Series and as a result I've spent nearly its value on servicing, tyres and a suspension upgrade/setup in the past 12 months
To be honest if I do trade in the TVR it would be very dependant on running costs. I've got a reasonable amount of cash in the bank, but that's from a lump sum and it isn't really representative of my current income, so I'd need to recoupe a certain amount when I sold it. Having finally established some savings I don't want to draw down on them much more than I do currently with the two cars.
I know the coupe is being hailed as a modern classic. Do you think the (cheaper) roadster will retain its value similarly well? Oh, and how do they do for weather protection and reliability?
eta: And can you get a suitcase in the back of both/either?
To be honest if I do trade in the TVR it would be very dependant on running costs. I've got a reasonable amount of cash in the bank, but that's from a lump sum and it isn't really representative of my current income, so I'd need to recoupe a certain amount when I sold it. Having finally established some savings I don't want to draw down on them much more than I do currently with the two cars.
I know the coupe is being hailed as a modern classic. Do you think the (cheaper) roadster will retain its value similarly well? Oh, and how do they do for weather protection and reliability?
eta: And can you get a suitcase in the back of both/either?
Edited by Chris71 on Friday 13th February 13:09
Chris, I'll try and answer a few of your Q's;
Coupe was based on Roadster, with a few 'boffins' credited with creating the tin top by just adding metal, which as a frame for the floorpan, stiffened it up a lot. Very highly regarded and the carnoisseur's choice. Probably a future classic (wish the wife would have let me have one - in Black).
S50 MZ3, better suspension than stock Z3, better engine - THE ENGINE, but with concerns over rebustness of VANOS and no DSC to help you out near the limit. Also a few cars with boot floor/diff mount cracks, but BMW seemingly prepared to honour repairs under warranty, even though we know of high mileage cars with none franchise service history being sorted FOC!
S54 MZ3, rare in RHD, has full DSC and better still S54 motor. Some cars with S54 had shell bearings spinning in the early days, but seems to have gone very quiet as a problem.
A USA based company do a front strut, rear brace and body brace for Z's and gives it coupe rigidity for a few hundred quid. Highly effective, insurance friendly mod.
3.0 has DSC and is the newer shape of Z3 (not the same as M's). Strong and reliable engine though it does drink a bit of oil.
2.8's mostly older shape and a bit more wheezy due to restrictions with the inlet manifolds, but plenty of grunt.
No major mechanical issues for the Z3, though some reports of weld failures in the boot on none M's too. None M Z3's have a crap lower TCA bushing system that can be swapped for the E36 M3 solid bush, which helps stop the car wandering/tramlining, especially with the other mods mentioned.
I've driven quite a few Z's and I really like mine. Takes a bit to get your head round it, but they can be hustled, especially with the right mods. I've driven a Schnitzer modified MZ3 with the full brace set around Croft and it was just fabulous fun.
Try them all and see what you think! If you can find a well modded car, even better as it's a long way ahead of a stock car.
As Ben mentioned, if you need to know more or want more detail, try www.zroadster.net
HTH
Stu
Coupe was based on Roadster, with a few 'boffins' credited with creating the tin top by just adding metal, which as a frame for the floorpan, stiffened it up a lot. Very highly regarded and the carnoisseur's choice. Probably a future classic (wish the wife would have let me have one - in Black).
S50 MZ3, better suspension than stock Z3, better engine - THE ENGINE, but with concerns over rebustness of VANOS and no DSC to help you out near the limit. Also a few cars with boot floor/diff mount cracks, but BMW seemingly prepared to honour repairs under warranty, even though we know of high mileage cars with none franchise service history being sorted FOC!
S54 MZ3, rare in RHD, has full DSC and better still S54 motor. Some cars with S54 had shell bearings spinning in the early days, but seems to have gone very quiet as a problem.
A USA based company do a front strut, rear brace and body brace for Z's and gives it coupe rigidity for a few hundred quid. Highly effective, insurance friendly mod.
3.0 has DSC and is the newer shape of Z3 (not the same as M's). Strong and reliable engine though it does drink a bit of oil.
2.8's mostly older shape and a bit more wheezy due to restrictions with the inlet manifolds, but plenty of grunt.
No major mechanical issues for the Z3, though some reports of weld failures in the boot on none M's too. None M Z3's have a crap lower TCA bushing system that can be swapped for the E36 M3 solid bush, which helps stop the car wandering/tramlining, especially with the other mods mentioned.
I've driven quite a few Z's and I really like mine. Takes a bit to get your head round it, but they can be hustled, especially with the right mods. I've driven a Schnitzer modified MZ3 with the full brace set around Croft and it was just fabulous fun.
Try them all and see what you think! If you can find a well modded car, even better as it's a long way ahead of a stock car.
As Ben mentioned, if you need to know more or want more detail, try www.zroadster.net
HTH
Stu
Thanks. I absolutely love the idea of getting one, but I think it would hinge entirely on running costs. I did a few sums today and it seems like running two cars may well be cheaper than one interesting daily driver, but I've had to guess at the costs.
Can you suggest the actual sort of figures it takes to keep one on the road for 8 or 9,000 miles a year? Would £1,500 a year on servicing (averaged out between general servicing and more costly work) and 25mpg in town be optimistic?
The other thing is outright value. I'd like to spend more time on track this year and I'm not sure I could afford to make a mistake in a £15k M Coupe. Will definitely enquire over at the Roadster forum though, because I really hope I've done my sums wrong!
Can you suggest the actual sort of figures it takes to keep one on the road for 8 or 9,000 miles a year? Would £1,500 a year on servicing (averaged out between general servicing and more costly work) and 25mpg in town be optimistic?
The other thing is outright value. I'd like to spend more time on track this year and I'm not sure I could afford to make a mistake in a £15k M Coupe. Will definitely enquire over at the Roadster forum though, because I really hope I've done my sums wrong!
Chris71 said:
Thanks. I absolutely love the idea of getting one, but I think it would hinge entirely on running costs. I did a few sums today and it seems like running two cars may well be cheaper than one interesting daily driver, but I've had to guess at the costs.
Can you suggest the actual sort of figures it takes to keep one on the road for 8 or 9,000 miles a year? Would £1,500 a year on servicing (averaged out between general servicing and more costly work) and 25mpg in town be optimistic?
The other thing is outright value. I'd like to spend more time on track this year and I'm not sure I could afford to make a mistake in a £15k M Coupe. Will definitely enquire over at the Roadster forum though, because I really hope I've done my sums wrong!
It's got to be cheaper running 1 car instead of 2! Can you suggest the actual sort of figures it takes to keep one on the road for 8 or 9,000 miles a year? Would £1,500 a year on servicing (averaged out between general servicing and more costly work) and 25mpg in town be optimistic?
The other thing is outright value. I'd like to spend more time on track this year and I'm not sure I could afford to make a mistake in a £15k M Coupe. Will definitely enquire over at the Roadster forum though, because I really hope I've done my sums wrong!
M's cost quite a bit more to service that none M's due to the type of motor it is, but even M engines are fairly bullet proof (subject to the items listed previously).
They're (all) relatively cheap to keep on the road, so long as you get a decent one and there's lots to choose from, so you don't have to rush and get the first car you see! I use a great local independent BMW specialst to save on the extortionate BMW franchise rates. Parts are readily available too, GSF being a good source of aftermarket bits.
Join the BMW Car Club and get 10% discount at most places (including the stealers).
StuB said:
It's got to be cheaper running 1 car instead of 2!
Not according to my sums:http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
(Could be wrong of course!)
You see, they're two very different cars. Classic insurance, pre-2001 road tax bands and low mileages make it very cheap to run a fun car on the side - so much so, that it actually works out cheaper to do that and have a generic 40mpg hatchback for lugging stuff around. Especially if you share the sensible car with your OH and split the costs.
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