(non)Termination after sick leave ?
Discussion
Is there anyone out there who can give me an idea how to progress this issue ?
My girlfriend was employed as an hotel receptionist in a small local hotel managed by the owner.
She ended-up doing her reception duties alongside other tasks such as cleaning, bar work, etc for no additional pay and with no changes to her (verbal) contract.
She complained about having to do these extra tasks to no avail. After some time and after repeated hassle from her apparently unpleasant employer, she was signed-off sick with a stress-related illness. Her sick benefits came to an end and she did not return to employment. During the time she was off, two others were employed to do the roles she was previously performing. She has had no communication from her employer since August (when her sick pay terminated), no termination notice and he has ignored repeated requests to forward her P45. This means that she cannot claim any benefits or start work with another employer.
In this situation, what is her legal employment status ?
She has not 'signed'on' as unemployed as the DSS has told her that they cannot help her as she is not entitled to any benefits. Is this because the DSS assume she is still employed legally by her last employer ?
Any employment lawyers / HR bods around that could give me some advice ?
Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
My girlfriend was employed as an hotel receptionist in a small local hotel managed by the owner.
She ended-up doing her reception duties alongside other tasks such as cleaning, bar work, etc for no additional pay and with no changes to her (verbal) contract.
She complained about having to do these extra tasks to no avail. After some time and after repeated hassle from her apparently unpleasant employer, she was signed-off sick with a stress-related illness. Her sick benefits came to an end and she did not return to employment. During the time she was off, two others were employed to do the roles she was previously performing. She has had no communication from her employer since August (when her sick pay terminated), no termination notice and he has ignored repeated requests to forward her P45. This means that she cannot claim any benefits or start work with another employer.
In this situation, what is her legal employment status ?
She has not 'signed'on' as unemployed as the DSS has told her that they cannot help her as she is not entitled to any benefits. Is this because the DSS assume she is still employed legally by her last employer ?
Any employment lawyers / HR bods around that could give me some advice ?
Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
I'm going to come across as a bit harsh for which I apologise but.
You don't need a P45 to get a job.
If she found the job so stressful as to need "sick leave" why didn't she just get another job?
Don't get me wrong I am also currently trying to motivate my other half to work despite an almost genetic dislike seemingly of work, however you need to be firm and tell them to get out and sort a job out as you won't support them.
You don't need a P45 to get a job.
If she found the job so stressful as to need "sick leave" why didn't she just get another job?
Don't get me wrong I am also currently trying to motivate my other half to work despite an almost genetic dislike seemingly of work, however you need to be firm and tell them to get out and sort a job out as you won't support them.
If for some reason you don't have a P45 and are starting a new job, your new employer will give you a form P46 which you can sign. If you sign statement B on the form, a temporary PAYE code will be operated for you.
The Tax Office will then try to trace your previous employer so they can give you your proper code. If they can't, they will send you a form P91 asking you for details of your previous job(s). In the meantime, your new employer will continue to use the 'emergency code' for you.
The Tax Office will then try to trace your previous employer so they can give you your proper code. If they can't, they will send you a form P91 asking you for details of your previous job(s). In the meantime, your new employer will continue to use the 'emergency code' for you.
Lack of a P45 is purely a "Tax Continuation" issue and will not cause legal problem in her obtaining a new employment. If her new job is her "only or main job" she should be able to sign a Form P46 for her new employer which will allow her to get her proper tax allowances in the new job.
Her old employers are legally obliged to give her a P45 and they should be reported if they fail to provide her with one.
She may have a case against her former employer for "constructive dismissal". The fact that a proper written employment contract did not exist would probably work more in her favour rather than their's if she ever appeared before an employment tribunal.
Her old employers are legally obliged to give her a P45 and they should be reported if they fail to provide her with one.
She may have a case against her former employer for "constructive dismissal". The fact that a proper written employment contract did not exist would probably work more in her favour rather than their's if she ever appeared before an employment tribunal.
Oh, she wants to work and I'm not really supporting her.
The problem is that she would only be working for minimum wage as she has no particular skills and would need benefit top-ups to make a living wage (like everyone else on low wages). She has not been signing-on but has been doing the odd bit of work for a friend.
I've told here that she needs to sign-on and at least get her mortgage interest and Council Tax paid whilst she's looking for a new job.
I simply wanted to know what was the proper procedure for termination after a period of sick leave. (I'm concerned that the DSS would treat her as having resigned by not returning to work after the sick benefit ended)
The problem is that she would only be working for minimum wage as she has no particular skills and would need benefit top-ups to make a living wage (like everyone else on low wages). She has not been signing-on but has been doing the odd bit of work for a friend.
I've told here that she needs to sign-on and at least get her mortgage interest and Council Tax paid whilst she's looking for a new job.
I simply wanted to know what was the proper procedure for termination after a period of sick leave. (I'm concerned that the DSS would treat her as having resigned by not returning to work after the sick benefit ended)
lunarscope said:
I simply wanted to know what was the proper procedure for termination after a period of sick leave.
The same as if there had been no sickness - a letter of resignation.lunarscope said:
(I'm concerned that the DSS would treat her as having resigned by not returning to work after the sick benefit ended)
Am I correct in thinking that after the end of her sick leave she simply didn't go back to work? That'll be why she's not getting any benefits, she walked out of gainful employment. In effect, as you feared, she's resigned.FPC said:
Sounds to me like she is still employed albeit on extended sick leave. She can't 'force' the employer to sack her. If she wants to leave the job she should resign.
That's what I thought.I need to clarify whether she has effectively resigned by not returning to work after her sickness benefit ended.
The employer seems to be a bit of a 'cowboy' who allegedly employs youngsters and oldies on less than the minimum wage on a cash-in-hand basis.
I've had some good advice on here so thanks to all who contributed.
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
I'm soooo disappointed. From the thread title, I thought this was going to be about Arnie 'terminating' someone or at least a sad story about abortions. Can we go back and pretend it is?
So sorry to disappoint you, Robo-Ape. 
I'm finished with this topic now so you can do with it what you will.
Badgerboy said:
How was she being paid? If it was cash in hand, do not expect a P45. The taxman would also start to take an interest in both the employer and your friend if no tax was being paid.
No, he would keep his ire for the employer. It is the employer's legal duty to administer PAYE on his staff - not the employee's.SSP then simply didn't return to work as she felt it would be too stressful due to his s
tty attitude.
I've advised her to simply forget about it and let the taxman discover why he's so reluctant to provide a P45.
I'll close this topic now as I've had plenty of good advice.
Cheers, everybody who replied.
tty attitude.I've advised her to simply forget about it and let the taxman discover why he's so reluctant to provide a P45.
I'll close this topic now as I've had plenty of good advice.
Cheers, everybody who replied.
Edited by lunarscope on Thursday 12th February 16:33
lunarscope said:
Is there anyone out there who can give me an idea how to progress this issue ?
My girlfriend was employed as an hotel receptionist in a small local hotel managed by the owner.
She ended-up doing her reception duties alongside other tasks such as cleaning, bar work, etc for no additional pay and with no changes to her (verbal) contract.
She complained about having to do these extra tasks to no avail. After some time and after repeated hassle from her apparently unpleasant employer, she was signed-off sick with a stress-related illness. Her sick benefits came to an end and she did not return to employment. During the time she was off, two others were employed to do the roles she was previously performing. She has had no communication from her employer since August (when her sick pay terminated), no termination notice and he has ignored repeated requests to forward her P45. This means that she cannot claim any benefits or start work with another employer.
In this situation, what is her legal employment status ?
She has not 'signed'on' as unemployed as the DSS has told her that they cannot help her as she is not entitled to any benefits. Is this because the DSS assume she is still employed legally by her last employer ?
Any employment lawyers / HR bods around that could give me some advice ?
Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
Was it her work that caused her stress? If yes, did she notify them of the same? My girlfriend was employed as an hotel receptionist in a small local hotel managed by the owner.
She ended-up doing her reception duties alongside other tasks such as cleaning, bar work, etc for no additional pay and with no changes to her (verbal) contract.
She complained about having to do these extra tasks to no avail. After some time and after repeated hassle from her apparently unpleasant employer, she was signed-off sick with a stress-related illness. Her sick benefits came to an end and she did not return to employment. During the time she was off, two others were employed to do the roles she was previously performing. She has had no communication from her employer since August (when her sick pay terminated), no termination notice and he has ignored repeated requests to forward her P45. This means that she cannot claim any benefits or start work with another employer.
In this situation, what is her legal employment status ?
She has not 'signed'on' as unemployed as the DSS has told her that they cannot help her as she is not entitled to any benefits. Is this because the DSS assume she is still employed legally by her last employer ?
Any employment lawyers / HR bods around that could give me some advice ?
Any help on this matter would be appreciated.
She currently appears to be employed from what you have written there? Just she has finished the company sick leave pay entitlement? You have no termination notice? NO redundancy notice?
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