A fair offer on a GTV?

[phil1979]

Hello all,

I've been looking at a rather nice phase 3 2.0 GTV Lusso this weekend, 04 plate, 53k miles, very tidy inside and out, good history etc, for £6500. I guess this is at the top end of the price range for this car, but it feels a good'un.

However, on the test drive, I wasn't happy with the steering. It pulled a little to the left, and was a little juddery when braking hard. It felt 'looser' than my 90k 145's steering as well, which I didn't expect.

The upshot is this; they have offered the car for £6k plus mine (£500 is fair for mine I reckon).

Would a fair offer back to them be £5500, plus my car, based on the steering issue, which I would like to get corrected myself?

Should I go lower, or could I be potentially looking at more than £500 to bring the steering back up to scratch?

Any thoughts are welcome.

[Ecurie Ecosse]

That's a bit steep


Alfa Romeo GTV Lusso
2.0 Petrol 2-door Coupe
5 Speed Manual Front Wheel Drive
Year: 2004 04
Mileage: 53,000

Part-exchange Price:
Excellent condition:
£4170

Average condition:
£3710

Below average condition:
£3300

Edited by Ecurie Ecosse on Monday 16th February 14:04

[phil1979]

Ecurie Ecosse said:

That's a bit steep


Alfa Romeo GTV Lusso
2.0 Petrol 2-door Coupe
5 Speed Manual Front Wheel Drive
Year: 2004 04
Mileage: 53,000

Part-exchange Price:
Excellent condition:
£4170

Average condition:
£3710

Below average condition:
£3300

Edited by Ecurie Ecosse on Monday 16th February 14:04

That's what I was thinking. All the phase 2s that I look at always seem shabby, so I was assuming that the phase 3 would hold a premium.

What do you feel a sensible offer would be?

Thanks again

[Ecurie Ecosse]

Not sure of an exact figure, but I would be bidding close to the trade in prices - say £4.5 - 5k.

You could get a GTV Cup, a 147 or 156 GTA or an early GT for your budget.

Also, if you are paying top dollar be sure you get the cambelt changed as part of the sale. Check out www.alfaowner.com for a buyer's guide, and also the classifieds section for some good examples.

[hornetrider]

I'm sorry, but they are selling a niche vehicle for a mega premium and not prepared to offer any discount? In this climate? If there is even the slightest issue with it I would walk.

[V6Alfisti]

phil1979 said:

Hello all,

I've been looking at a rather nice phase 3 2.0 GTV Lusso this weekend, 04 plate, 53k miles, very tidy inside and out, good history etc, for £6500. I guess this is at the top end of the price range for this car, but it feels a good'un.

However, on the test drive, I wasn't happy with the steering. It pulled a little to the left, and was a little juddery when braking hard. It felt 'looser' than my 90k 145's steering as well, which I didn't expect.

The upshot is this; they have offered the car for £6k plus mine (£500 is fair for mine I reckon).

Would a fair offer back to them be £5500, plus my car, based on the steering issue, which I would like to get corrected myself?

Should I go lower, or could I be potentially looking at more than £500 to bring the steering back up to scratch?

Any thoughts are welcome.

Sounds like too much ££ to me, I would suggest 5 to 5.5k cash is nearer the mark.

Pulling to the left is just a tracking problem (£20 to a good specialist will fix this), unless one of the bushes is worn.

The GTV's rack isn't as quick as I would have liked (ex V6 owner), certainly not as quick as the 156/GT rack.

If it is juddering under normal braking (ie ABS not kicking in), most likely the disks are warped and will need replacing.

Other things to check on a GTV:-

Rear bushes, common weakness as not rose jointed like the V6
Radiator - Prone to leaking, breaking up
Electrics - Check all electrics (everything should work 100%)- including intermittent wipe, as the Valeo motor/pcb can play up.
Knocks from front suspension over bumps - front lower wishbones
JTS Engine - When was the cambelt last replaced?, should be every 36k or 3 years (whatever comes first - no exceptions)
Check the oil level - if below minimum walk...probably not the first time

Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 16th February 21:58

[pdV6]

phil1979 said:

All the phase 2s that I look at always seem shabby, so I was assuming that the phase 3 would hold a premium.

Not sure about that; the phase 3 is a "challenging" look compared to the phase 2 - a bit Marmite if you like.

[phil1979]

pdV6 said:

phil1979 said:

All the phase 2s that I look at always seem shabby, so I was assuming that the phase 3 would hold a premium.

Not sure about that; the phase 3 is a "challenging" look compared to the phase 2 - a bit Marmite if you like.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer P2s. But they never seem as tidy as the P3s. Were the P3s bolted together better? Nearly every P2 i've seen has crappy interior, and fallen front bumpers!

[jamieboy]

phil1979 said:

Were the P3s bolted together better? Nearly every P2 i've seen has crappy interior, and fallen front bumpers!

Shouldn't be much difference - Pininfarina built all the GTVs from 2000 onwards, so that's from about half way through P2 production.

[V6Alfisti]

phil1979 said:

pdV6 said:

phil1979 said:

All the phase 2s that I look at always seem shabby, so I was assuming that the phase 3 would hold a premium.

Not sure about that; the phase 3 is a "challenging" look compared to the phase 2 - a bit Marmite if you like.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer P2s. But they never seem as tidy as the P3s. Were the P3s bolted together better? Nearly every P2 i've seen has crappy interior, and fallen front bumpers!

Fallen front bumpers are to be expected with age (though some are worse than others) as the mounts are made out of plastic and slowly move/bend with age. Though my old V6 had very little bumper movement.

Only problems with the interior should be worn leather bolsters...the rest all holds up very well. (Again my old V6 with 50k miles on it, was like new)....wait for a good one

[JR]

V6Alfisti said:

Pulling to the left is just a tracking problem (£20 to a good specialist will fix this), unless one of the bushes is worn.

...

If it is juddering under normal braking (ie ABS not kicking in), most likely the disks are warped and will need replacing.

Worn front suspension bushes can cause both of these problems. Whatever it is I'd like to see a warped brake disc and measure it :-) http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_braked...

V6Alfisti said:

Other things to check on a GTV:-

Rear bushes, common weakness as not rose jointed like the V6
Radiator - Prone to leaking, breaking up
Electrics - Check all electrics (everything should work 100%)- including intermittent wipe, as the Valeo motor/pcb can play up.
Knocks from front suspension over bumps - front lower wishbones
JTS Engine - When was the cambelt last replaced?, should be every 36k or 3 years (whatever comes first - no exceptions)
Check the oil level - if below minimum walk...probably not the first time

Yep.

[DOOG]

I'd be nearer 3.5k plus your car..

There aren't many buyers around..

[V6Alfisti]

JR said:

V6Alfisti said:

Pulling to the left is just a tracking problem (£20 to a good specialist will fix this), unless one of the bushes is worn.

...

If it is juddering under normal braking (ie ABS not kicking in), most likely the disks are warped and will need replacing.

Worn front suspension bushes can cause both of these problems. Whatever it is I'd like to see a warped brake disc and measure it :-) http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_braked...

V6Alfisti said:

Other things to check on a GTV:-

Rear bushes, common weakness as not rose jointed like the V6
Radiator - Prone to leaking, breaking up
Electrics - Check all electrics (everything should work 100%)- including intermittent wipe, as the Valeo motor/pcb can play up.
Knocks from front suspension over bumps - front lower wishbones
JTS Engine - When was the cambelt last replaced?, should be every 36k or 3 years (whatever comes first - no exceptions)
Check the oil level - if below minimum walk...probably not the first time

Yep.

I have seen people replace discs before and totally cure the problem.

Seems I am not the only one imagining warped discs

"i had some warped discs, so i put them on the lathe, and clocked them to 0.002mm of run out before i started turning them, removed a small amount of material and it was defo not pad material that was coming off, the disc was warped, skimmed both sides, both sides clocked to 0.002

after about 2 months the discs went again, so the lesson is - once the disc is warped it always will be so put it in the bin! "

That would suggest to me, that in some cases the idea of 'warped discs' do exist

[Gompo]

Surely your car would be worth more than £500 aswell?

[Alfa_75_Steve]

One of those tricky cars to value, as are a lot of Alfas.

Trade guides mean very little for relatively rare cars such as these - just look at the wildly varying values 166s are advertised for - and how much a decent phase 2 car fetches. (I know of at least 1 phase 2 166 which sold for £8k recently!)

I'd say the price is a tad high if it's not utterly immaculate..... but have you tried looking at the prices other phase 3 cars are being advertised for on autotrader, and how much they fetch on eBay? - they're the best real-world guides you can get.

[Green Montego]

I'm going off the point of the thread a little but it feels the right place to mention it. Does anyone know why the rear suspension on my GTV creaks a little when it's been sat for a while. I just assumed it's dry bushes with all this salt around at the moment. I hope i'm right rather than anything too serious. . .

[JR]

V6Alfisti said:

I have seen people replace discs before and totally cure the problem.

Seems I am not the only one imagining warped discs

"i had some warped discs, so i put them on the lathe, and clocked them to 0.002mm of run out before i started turning them, removed a small amount of material and it was defo not pad material that was coming off, the disc was warped, skimmed both sides, both sides clocked to 0.002

after about 2 months the discs went again, so the lesson is - once the disc is warped it always will be so put it in the bin! "

That would suggest to me, that in some cases the idea of 'warped discs' do exist

I'm still not convinced. Even putting a face on the disc will remove some metal. Aside from discs worn very thin the only way may be to warp a disc would be heat from continually braking from high speed and keeping your foot on the brake for a substantial time when stopped i.e. far higher abuse than trackdays or racing. Even then I'm not so sure.

[JR]

Green Montego said:

I'm going off the point of the thread a little but it feels the right place to mention it. Does anyone know why the rear suspension on my GTV creaks a little when it's been sat for a while. I just assumed it's dry bushes with all this salt around at the moment. I hope i'm right rather than anything too serious. . .

I can't answer your question but my GTV is in everyday use and has no such problems (3litre) It does have some poly bushes but given the number of posts that people make about squeeking poly bushes I doubt whether this fact is relevant for this topic except that if you do have poly bushes on the rear there is a small stub of casting that needs to be ground off.

[Mr2Mike]

JR said:

That would suggest to me, that in some cases the idea of 'warped discs' do exist

I'm still not convinced. Even putting a face on the disc will remove some metal. Aside from discs worn very thin the only way may be to warp a disc would be heat from continually braking from high speed and keeping your foot on the brake for a substantial time when stopped i.e. far higher abuse than trackdays or racing. Even then I'm not so sure.

All castings have some residual stress in them, it's no surprise to me that a disk can warp. Even engine blocks can warp and they don't get anything like the temperature swings of a disk. A brand new disk on the back of my MR2 had significant run out after a few months, and yes the hub was pristine and had no measurable run-out. The replacement was fine for a couple of years until I sold the car.