Discussion
Quick question for the experts, get too many matches and too much bulls
t searching seloc.
A bunch of Elises have bust their rear suspension, by all accounts, due to using sticky tyres on track which can produce lateral force in excess of the rated load on the part Lotus originally used. I remember a few hardcore track slags in the vx220.org forum did theirs too, with high tensile bolts on the hub carrier, or some such engineery stuff that I haven't researched enough to be able to talk about
Now the Exige S2 is fitted from stock with sticky trackday tyres, and is pretty decent as a track / road compromise. Question is - did Lotus upgrade the toe links on my car, do I need to be at all concerned about it (given that I'm almost certain to upgrade the performance of my car both in braking and acceleration - I'm not going bigger on wheels or tyres so lateral stresses will be limited by my driving skill)??
t searching seloc.A bunch of Elises have bust their rear suspension, by all accounts, due to using sticky tyres on track which can produce lateral force in excess of the rated load on the part Lotus originally used. I remember a few hardcore track slags in the vx220.org forum did theirs too, with high tensile bolts on the hub carrier, or some such engineery stuff that I haven't researched enough to be able to talk about
Now the Exige S2 is fitted from stock with sticky trackday tyres, and is pretty decent as a track / road compromise. Question is - did Lotus upgrade the toe links on my car, do I need to be at all concerned about it (given that I'm almost certain to upgrade the performance of my car both in braking and acceleration - I'm not going bigger on wheels or tyres so lateral stresses will be limited by my driving skill)??
Scuffers said:
I take it you CBA to look at them then?
And no, they do not come with uprated toe links.
As I said, I don't know WTF they are, just that some people have had them fail. Thanks for the answer though, I'll now find out what they are, where they are and what needs to be done to strengthen them And no, they do not come with uprated toe links.
fatwomble said:
Scuffers, in your opinion, is there as big an issue with failures when using sticky tyres as everyone seems to think?
to be honest, it's more related to use, as in how you drive...one man's driving hard is another's Sunday drive if you get what I mean.
if you into trackdays etc, then I would change them, if your talking a couple of days a year, then probably not.
Scuffers said:
fatwomble said:
Scuffers, in your opinion, is there as big an issue with failures when using sticky tyres as everyone seems to think?
to be honest, it's more related to use, as in how you drive...one man's driving hard is another's Sunday drive if you get what I mean.
if you into trackdays etc, then I would change them, if your talking a couple of days a year, then probably not.
Cool. So are these things a consumable, then - or can they be replaced with uprated items to deal with track work permanently?
Apologies for sounding retarded but I'm not 100% sure what the toe links are, and whether they are weak for a reason (i.e. to protect other components in the suspension)... No sense in putting heavy duty components on if they simply transmit the failure to a more fundamental component, I guess.
The actual failure mode sounds a little scary though. I've had a track rod come off the front of my old mk2 Golf GTI whilst cornering (one front wheel immediately flipped perpendicular to direction of travel) and keeping it on the road was hairy. Don't fancy one of the rear wheels deciding to point somewhere else when I'm going quickly...
Apologies for sounding retarded but I'm not 100% sure what the toe links are, and whether they are weak for a reason (i.e. to protect other components in the suspension)... No sense in putting heavy duty components on if they simply transmit the failure to a more fundamental component, I guess.
The actual failure mode sounds a little scary though. I've had a track rod come off the front of my old mk2 Golf GTI whilst cornering (one front wheel immediately flipped perpendicular to direction of travel) and keeping it on the road was hairy. Don't fancy one of the rear wheels deciding to point somewhere else when I'm going quickly...
Sounds like I need to know WTF these things are, and how to detect (easily) when they are on the verge of failing. I don't abuse the car as such, but like to drive pretty hard. That said, I try to drive smoothly on trackdays rather than launching the thing off kerbs to come down sideways like I'm skiing. Wheels are *not* a consumable as far as I'm concerned 
Thing is, I don't have a garage or anywhere sensible to jack the car up, so if regular inspection means underbody / undertray removal then I'm going to have to leave it to the servicing experts.
Does it sound reasonably safe with 'averagely' hard road driving and 5-10 trackdays a year to just get the toe links inspected on a yearly basis and replaced if necessary with the service... or do I need to be more aware than that?
Off to do some research... need to know what worn / damaged toe links *feel* like to drive...
Thing is, I don't have a garage or anywhere sensible to jack the car up, so if regular inspection means underbody / undertray removal then I'm going to have to leave it to the servicing experts.
Does it sound reasonably safe with 'averagely' hard road driving and 5-10 trackdays a year to just get the toe links inspected on a yearly basis and replaced if necessary with the service... or do I need to be more aware than that?
Off to do some research... need to know what worn / damaged toe links *feel* like to drive...
Mr_C said:
I have an early (97) S1 with alu hubs and standard toe links. Would you recommend changing them, Simon? It only does a few track days a year and about 10 to 11k in road use. Currently on Advan Neova's but I fancy trying some R888s or similar.
Cheers
Paul
really comes down to maintenance...Cheers
Paul
std ones don't suddenly fail as such, the problem is that as nobody ever checks them, the first you know is when they do catastrophically fail.
If your going to track a car, you *should* be inspecting this stuff (as well as other bits) every outing, yes, I know this sounds like overkill, but we are talking 10-20 mins effort here, not several hours. Toe links will show sighs of issue before they fail, and so long as you just keep changing them, unless your really hard-core, then it's not a massive issue.
that said, if it was my car, I would have uprated ones no question, especially for cars with ali uprights as the support bracket also supports the uprights better.
Mr_C said:
Inspecting for what?
With my limited resources I can tell you by pulling them about that there is no play in the ends and no signs of bending or cracking...?
basically, yes, good visual inspection and a check for play (use a lever to apply some load etc)With my limited resources I can tell you by pulling them about that there is no play in the ends and no signs of bending or cracking...?
it's usually quite obvious when they start to wear, also the hadling starts to go a little odd with serious wear, things like it rear-stearing as you come off the gas etc...
In my Honda'd S2 I had the Eliseparts uprated jobbies and generally ran with 888's. Every 3rd or 4th trackday I'd have the car in for a spanner check and oil change, as for the sake of an hours labour, I am happier if I know that someone who knows what they are looking for gives everything a check-over. I never had the space to get the car up on a jack or stands to learn how/what to check myself, so thought it a worthwhile spend of £50+ VAT for peace of mind.
Scuffers said:
Mr_C said:
Inspecting for what?
With my limited resources I can tell you by pulling them about that there is no play in the ends and no signs of bending or cracking...?
basically, yes, good visual inspection and a check for play (use a lever to apply some load etc)With my limited resources I can tell you by pulling them about that there is no play in the ends and no signs of bending or cracking...?
it's usually quite obvious when they start to wear, also the hadling starts to go a little odd with serious wear, things like it rear-stearing as you come off the gas etc...
theres a few videos of toe links giving up on track days on u tube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA8FWYeipLk
If in doubt £340 seems well spent.
If in doubt £340 seems well spent.
Edited by lamb jiblets on Tuesday 17th February 18:58
Edited by lamb jiblets on Tuesday 17th February 19:00
I've recently bought the Elisepart Uniball kit (not fitted yet) to go on my S1 Ali hubs. The brackets for the uprights certainly look like they'll well beef up the outer mounting point and the whole looks more up to taking higher stresses. I don't know that I drive the car that hard on track but the originals where on 70k miles and as I'm doing the bushes/balljoints ets, it seemed rude not too!
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