Quantitive easing
Discussion
Adrian W said:
Will he? won't he?
If he prints enough I'll be able to pay my mortgage off, I'm off to buy shares in Delarue!
Right:If he prints enough I'll be able to pay my mortgage off, I'm off to buy shares in Delarue!
You can only print money if you have deflation or an insane political leader like Robert Mugabe or Gordon Brown.
We currently, have very high inflation. 3.1% is the last figure, but if you remove the cunning little VAT fiddle it is over 4%.
We hardly have falling inflation, let alone deflation. Deflation is when that little number is actually negative. The media is getting deflation confused with falling inflation, or deflationary pressures. Very different. I suspect the politicians aren't too aware of the differences either.
So, in essence, GB will print money to get a short term fix but as we are still in a high inflationary environment it will send inflation rocketing out of control and lead to the collapse of the Pound and the Gilt market and the end of Britain in our working lifetime.
Never, in the history of this small island has so much been destroyed by so few.
We really are on a precipice and GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also t
ts.Horse_Apple said:
GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also tts.
Whether your point is accurate is irrelevant due to the sheer idiocy of your insults.ts.Gordon Brown is Scottish, as am I. I'm a foreigner in my own land, am I? So the tax money you've had from me isn't welcome? And presumably you don't want the oil revenue?
I also have less than perfect vision. I challenge you to walk up to me and tell me that I'm an idiot just because of my eyesight.
As for being a Trotskyist (actually Trotyskite, if you want to be even vaguely accurate)...Trotsky advocated an international proteletarian revolution and the full public ownership of all means of production. Brown does not.
Insult Brown for being useless, and I'll heartily agree with you. But attacking him on the grounds of not being English (this is the UK, no?) or for physical imperfections seems crass at best. And calling him a Trotskyist (sic) shows how little you know of what you speak, rather undercutting your point.
longblackcoat said:
Horse_Apple said:
GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also tts.
Whether your point is accurate is irrelevant due to the sheer idiocy of your insults.ts.Gordon Brown is Scottish, as am I. I'm a foreigner in my own land, am I? So the tax money you've had from me isn't welcome? And presumably you don't want the oil revenue?
I also have less than perfect vision. I challenge you to walk up to me and tell me that I'm an idiot just because of my eyesight.
As for being a Trotskyist (actually Trotyskite, if you want to be even vaguely accurate)...Trotsky advocated an international proteletarian revolution and the full public ownership of all means of production. Brown does not.
Insult Brown for being useless, and I'll heartily agree with you. But attacking him on the grounds of not being English (this is the UK, no?) or for physical imperfections seems crass at best. And calling him a Trotskyist (sic) shows how little you know of what you speak, rather undercutting your point.
Puggit said:
longblackcoat said:
Horse_Apple said:
GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also tts.
Whether your point is accurate is irrelevant due to the sheer idiocy of your insults.ts.Gordon Brown is Scottish, as am I. I'm a foreigner in my own land, am I? So the tax money you've had from me isn't welcome? And presumably you don't want the oil revenue?
I also have less than perfect vision. I challenge you to walk up to me and tell me that I'm an idiot just because of my eyesight.
As for being a Trotskyist (actually Trotyskite, if you want to be even vaguely accurate)...Trotsky advocated an international proteletarian revolution and the full public ownership of all means of production. Brown does not.
Insult Brown for being useless, and I'll heartily agree with you. But attacking him on the grounds of not being English (this is the UK, no?) or for physical imperfections seems crass at best. And calling him a Trotskyist (sic) shows how little you know of what you speak, rather undercutting your point.
longblackcoat said:
Horse_Apple said:
GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also tts.
Whether your point is accurate is irrelevant due to the sheer idiocy of your insults.ts.Gordon Brown is Scottish, as am I. I'm a foreigner in my own land, am I? So the tax money you've had from me isn't welcome? And presumably you don't want the oil revenue?
I also have less than perfect vision. I challenge you to walk up to me and tell me that I'm an idiot just because of my eyesight.
As for being a Trotskyist (actually Trotyskite, if you want to be even vaguely accurate)...Trotsky advocated an international proteletarian revolution and the full public ownership of all means of production. Brown does not.
Insult Brown for being useless, and I'll heartily agree with you. But attacking him on the grounds of not being English (this is the UK, no?) or for physical imperfections seems crass at best. And calling him a Trotskyist (sic) shows how little you know of what you speak, rather undercutting your point.
Seeing as Scotland and England, while conjoined do indeed have differing needs, views and outlooks then it is indeed a relevent factor that our leader is Scottish, and has a constiency within Scotland.
It is even more important now that Labour is weak and requires the support of Scotland to secure the passing of bills. It would be foolish to think that this would not lead to a pandering of demands that otherwise would be dealt with in a different manner. It is also highly relevent that Income reciepts from England are far higher than from Scotland per capita and that these reciepts now underwrite the 2 main Scottish banks.
Partial site can also have a significant impact. It is well known that he is prone to outbursts of rage that many have linked, understandably, to this issue and it is very fair to argue that it is rarely the case that logical or correct descisions are made under such conditions.
Bitter, yes. Weak, certainly.
I'll certainly agree with you that since Brown became a dominant public figure his public political view is not that of a Trotskiist, however, we all know what his political views were for the predominant and formative part of his adult life.
As for calling him an idiot for being partially sighted, that is just your own complete fabrication probably born out of a deep seated, unresolved insecurity. For which I'm afraid I can do nothing to help with. If you wish to make things up in your own mind and then publish them that that is no problem for me.
I believe the term that I used was 'Buffoon' anyway, so you have probably gotten yourself all worked up and confused on some other thread regarding Clarkson's comments. Amusingly, this is perfect proof as to why sometimes a dissability (in your case, this insecurity issue) leads to outbursts of anger and erroneous descisions.
Horse_Apple said:
longblackcoat said:
Horse_Apple said:
GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also tts.
Whether your point is accurate is irrelevant due to the sheer idiocy of your insults.ts.Gordon Brown is Scottish, as am I. I'm a foreigner in my own land, am I? So the tax money you've had from me isn't welcome? And presumably you don't want the oil revenue?
I also have less than perfect vision. I challenge you to walk up to me and tell me that I'm an idiot just because of my eyesight.
As for being a Trotskyist (actually Trotyskite, if you want to be even vaguely accurate)...Trotsky advocated an international proteletarian revolution and the full public ownership of all means of production. Brown does not.
Insult Brown for being useless, and I'll heartily agree with you. But attacking him on the grounds of not being English (this is the UK, no?) or for physical imperfections seems crass at best. And calling him a Trotskyist (sic) shows how little you know of what you speak, rather undercutting your point.
Seeing as Scotland and England, while conjoined do indeed have differing needs, views and outlooks then it is indeed a relevent factor that our leader is Scottish, and has a constiency within Scotland.
It is even more important now that Labour is weak and requires the support of Scotland to secure the passing of bills. It would be foolish to think that this would not lead to a pandering of demands that otherwise would be dealt with in a different manner. It is also highly relevent that Income reciepts from England are far higher than from Scotland per capita and that these reciepts now underwrite the 2 main Scottish banks.
Partial site can also have a significant impact. It is well known that he is prone to outbursts of rage that many have linked, understandably, to this issue and it is very fair to argue that it is rarely the case that logical or correct descisions are made under such conditions.
Bitter, yes. Weak, certainly.
I'll certainly agree with you that since Brown became a dominant public figure his public political view is not that of a Trotskiist, however, we all know what his political views were for the predominant and formative part of his adult life.
As for calling him an idiot for being partially sighted, that is just your own complete fabrication probably born out of a deep seated, unresolved insecurity. For which I'm afraid I can do nothing to help with. If you wish to make things up in your own mind and then publish them that that is no problem for me.
I believe the term that I used was 'Buffoon' anyway, so you have probably gotten yourself all worked up and confused on some other thread regarding Clarkson's comments. Amusingly, this is perfect proof as to why sometimes a dissability (in your case, this insecurity issue) leads to outbursts of anger and erroneous descisions.
I presume you don't mind if, in the spirit of your critique of the PM, I give my view of you. Which is that you're a prejudiced little Englander with a severe spelling problem. Which is well-known to give a deep-seated fear (justified, in this case) of being thought a total f
kwit.Have a nice day.
Horse_Apple said:
Adrian W said:
Will he? won't he?
If he prints enough I'll be able to pay my mortgage off, I'm off to buy shares in Delarue!
Right:If he prints enough I'll be able to pay my mortgage off, I'm off to buy shares in Delarue!
You can only print money if you have deflation or an insane political leader like Robert Mugabe or Gordon Brown.
We currently, have very high inflation. 3.1% is the last figure, but if you remove the cunning little VAT fiddle it is over 4%.
We hardly have falling inflation, let alone deflation. Deflation is when that little number is actually negative. The media is getting deflation confused with falling inflation, or deflationary pressures. Very different. I suspect the politicians aren't too aware of the differences either.
So, in essence, GB will print money to get a short term fix but as we are still in a high inflationary environment it will send inflation rocketing out of control and lead to the collapse of the Pound and the Gilt market and the end of Britain in our working lifetime.
Never, in the history of this small island has so much been destroyed by so few.
We really are on a precipice and GB is a partially sighted, bitter, weak, Trotskyist, foreign buffoon and probably the greatest danger to this country since Hitler or Napolean, who were also t
ts.IM all for them trying to do something. If it achieves what they aim it to achieve then it will be a good thing on balance. I could not give a f
k about the value of the pound or inflation while the economy is so fked.Edited by blindswelledrat on Thursday 19th February 11:51
Quantative easing is already being used in the states, and has reduced lending costs a little without pushing inflation up by much.
As I understand it it, it has a similar effect to interest rate cuts (including devaluing currency). Since rates are already at 1% cutting them by much more isn't possible, so this is the only weapon left to the MPC.
As I understand it it, it has a similar effect to interest rate cuts (including devaluing currency). Since rates are already at 1% cutting them by much more isn't possible, so this is the only weapon left to the MPC.
An interesting article, although it is from a potentially biased blog source:
http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/2009/02/its-...
Monday, February 16, 2009
Its Official - The UK Government is Now Bankrupt
You would think that news that the UK government is bankrupt would be headline news around the world. When I quote the piece of news that announces the bankruptcy, you may say 'huh?', and like the newspapers, initially find it difficult to see it. I will start with the news itself, which was tucked away in the financial section of the Telegraph:
'Charlie Bean [the Bank of England Deputy Governor] put his weight behind the pound's 25pc fall over the past year in an unusual comment on the pound. Mr Bean also confirmed that the Bank is poised to start buying government bonds in a drastic attempt to resuscitate the stricken economy.'
If we translate this, it means is that the Bank of England is going to print money to directly finance the operations of the UK government. This is the action of a government that is now literally bankrupt. The bank is not going to buy the bonds to 'resuscitate the stricken economy' but will buy them because nobody else wants to buy UK government bonds. There are not enough people willing to lend to the UK government. It is bust. It is bankrupt.
The UK government can not fund itself without borrowing - it can not service its existing debt without borrowing, and it can not pay for its activities without borrowing. When the lending stops, it goes bust. Or it prints money.
You will have read lots of stories that 'quantitative easing' (printing money) is being undertaken to fight deflation, but it is not. It is the last desperate gamble of governments to save themselves and their collapsing economies. For those that believe that printing money and lending it to the government is about fighting deflation, read on....
In July of last year, I posted that I believed that the UK government was effectively bankrupt, and that this would reveal itself as the coming crisis progressed. Ever since that early post, I have watched in horror as the UK government has poured ever more money into ever more and ever larger bailouts. In July of 2008 I had this to say:
One certainty is that, in a years time, the UK banking system will still be in crisis, as will be government finance. Unemployment will still be climbing, consumer confidence will be rock bottom, and house prices still falling. Businesses will be closing down in large numbers. All of these events were put in place over the last few years, and can not be reversed.
I identified that the first bailouts would be followed by even greater bailouts, and that the banking crisis would simply be transferred onto the government. As just one example, I asked the following at the start of September:
The reality is that the UK has been bailing out the banks for some while, through the special liquidity schemes. How long can this go on?
This was before even more money was poured into the bailouts. I then went on to say in the same post:
In the case of the UK, I wonder whether the UK government will have the financial wherewithal to actually have a choice in the matter. When the next credit crisis strikes, I expect confidence in the UK economy to be at a very, very low point, and the only way the government will be able to finance the bail outs will be through 'printing' money, with all of the negative consequences that entails.
As a sense of perspective, this was written at the time of the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the US (I have added the italics in this quote). The situation that I predicted at that point in time is exactly the situation that is now confronting the UK.
In recent months I have also been pointing out the impossibility of continued government borrowing. In particular, just about every country in the OECD is going on a massive borrowing binge, and all at the same time. My question is very simple - how are all of these governments going to simultaneously raise the money to finance their borrowing? The US alone is looking to raise $US trillions. In such circumstances, potential lenders will have a huge range of choice on where they put their money, and they will look to put their money where they believe it will be safe.
As we are all aware, the £GB has been plunging in value, the UK is seen by many as the economy that will be hit hardest by the economic crisis, and (even before this article) was discussing the option of printing money. Amongst all of the choices of which country to lend to, the UK is going to towards the bottom of the list. At the same time, due to the lunatic and endless bailouts, government borrowing is spiralling ever higher. At a time when there is intense competition between countries for finance, with an ever growing need for ever more borrowing, it is inevitable that the UK government would be unable to continue to borrow enough money.
As a result, the printing presses are about to turn....
http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/2009/02/its-...
Monday, February 16, 2009
Its Official - The UK Government is Now Bankrupt
You would think that news that the UK government is bankrupt would be headline news around the world. When I quote the piece of news that announces the bankruptcy, you may say 'huh?', and like the newspapers, initially find it difficult to see it. I will start with the news itself, which was tucked away in the financial section of the Telegraph:
'Charlie Bean [the Bank of England Deputy Governor] put his weight behind the pound's 25pc fall over the past year in an unusual comment on the pound. Mr Bean also confirmed that the Bank is poised to start buying government bonds in a drastic attempt to resuscitate the stricken economy.'
If we translate this, it means is that the Bank of England is going to print money to directly finance the operations of the UK government. This is the action of a government that is now literally bankrupt. The bank is not going to buy the bonds to 'resuscitate the stricken economy' but will buy them because nobody else wants to buy UK government bonds. There are not enough people willing to lend to the UK government. It is bust. It is bankrupt.
The UK government can not fund itself without borrowing - it can not service its existing debt without borrowing, and it can not pay for its activities without borrowing. When the lending stops, it goes bust. Or it prints money.
You will have read lots of stories that 'quantitative easing' (printing money) is being undertaken to fight deflation, but it is not. It is the last desperate gamble of governments to save themselves and their collapsing economies. For those that believe that printing money and lending it to the government is about fighting deflation, read on....
In July of last year, I posted that I believed that the UK government was effectively bankrupt, and that this would reveal itself as the coming crisis progressed. Ever since that early post, I have watched in horror as the UK government has poured ever more money into ever more and ever larger bailouts. In July of 2008 I had this to say:
One certainty is that, in a years time, the UK banking system will still be in crisis, as will be government finance. Unemployment will still be climbing, consumer confidence will be rock bottom, and house prices still falling. Businesses will be closing down in large numbers. All of these events were put in place over the last few years, and can not be reversed.
I identified that the first bailouts would be followed by even greater bailouts, and that the banking crisis would simply be transferred onto the government. As just one example, I asked the following at the start of September:
The reality is that the UK has been bailing out the banks for some while, through the special liquidity schemes. How long can this go on?
This was before even more money was poured into the bailouts. I then went on to say in the same post:
In the case of the UK, I wonder whether the UK government will have the financial wherewithal to actually have a choice in the matter. When the next credit crisis strikes, I expect confidence in the UK economy to be at a very, very low point, and the only way the government will be able to finance the bail outs will be through 'printing' money, with all of the negative consequences that entails.
As a sense of perspective, this was written at the time of the bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in the US (I have added the italics in this quote). The situation that I predicted at that point in time is exactly the situation that is now confronting the UK.
In recent months I have also been pointing out the impossibility of continued government borrowing. In particular, just about every country in the OECD is going on a massive borrowing binge, and all at the same time. My question is very simple - how are all of these governments going to simultaneously raise the money to finance their borrowing? The US alone is looking to raise $US trillions. In such circumstances, potential lenders will have a huge range of choice on where they put their money, and they will look to put their money where they believe it will be safe.
As we are all aware, the £GB has been plunging in value, the UK is seen by many as the economy that will be hit hardest by the economic crisis, and (even before this article) was discussing the option of printing money. Amongst all of the choices of which country to lend to, the UK is going to towards the bottom of the list. At the same time, due to the lunatic and endless bailouts, government borrowing is spiralling ever higher. At a time when there is intense competition between countries for finance, with an ever growing need for ever more borrowing, it is inevitable that the UK government would be unable to continue to borrow enough money.
As a result, the printing presses are about to turn....
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article8926.html
This was posted on the It's Bad thread. Have a read and if this bloke is to be believed, spelling and grammar aside then it completed supports the assertion that the PM (No mention of his disability or where he comes from) its a complete megalomaniac of a bd tt!
And as Raffa would say That’s a FACT.
This was posted on the It's Bad thread. Have a read and if this bloke is to be believed, spelling and grammar aside then it completed supports the assertion that the PM (No mention of his disability or where he comes from) its a complete megalomaniac of a b
d tt!And as Raffa would say That’s a FACT.
longblackcoat said:
You're linking your disapproval of him to his nationality and his eyesight. Which I think is rather stupid.
I presume you don't mind if, in the spirit of your critique of the PM, I give my view of you. Which is that you're a prejudiced little Englander with a severe spelling problem. Which is well-known to give a deep-seated fear (justified, in this case) of being thought a total fkwit.
Have a nice day.
I'm English? We're beginning to appear somewhat paranoid, aren't we I presume you don't mind if, in the spirit of your critique of the PM, I give my view of you. Which is that you're a prejudiced little Englander with a severe spelling problem. Which is well-known to give a deep-seated fear (justified, in this case) of being thought a total f
kwit.Have a nice day.
Blue160 said:
Quantative easing is already being used in the states, and has reduced lending costs a little without pushing inflation up by much.
As I understand it it, it has a similar effect to interest rate cuts (including devaluing currency). Since rates are already at 1% cutting them by much more isn't possible, so this is the only weapon left to the MPC.
As cash is a promissory note with little or nothing to back it up............how?As I understand it it, it has a similar effect to interest rate cuts (including devaluing currency). Since rates are already at 1% cutting them by much more isn't possible, so this is the only weapon left to the MPC.
Surely fat boy (BOE) is just doing the same thing as the banks, i.e. lending the same money over and over again. I still believe if I did this I would get a visit from some people, who work for the government, and I would probably end up in prison.
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