mis-sold mobile phone contract - advice req.
Discussion
Long winded post alert, but I'd appreciate advice from the PH legal bods. I'll try to be as brief as possible but there are a few things relating to contract that are somewhat confusing to me.
With reference to this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My situation is that i have been with t-mob for 6 years now. Last January I broke my phone and needed a new one. At that point I had been out of contract for 6 mths and was on a rolling monthly one with a 30day notice period.
I called customer services to arrange an upgrade and was told that my options were to pay to have a new phone with no new tie-in period or get a new one on a 12 or 18mth contract. After playing the usual 'if thats the case then I'll leave' game I managed to get a free upgrade with the assurance I would remain on my rolling monthly contract. I did this specifically as i was interviewing for jobs on the continent and needed that flexibility to leave at any time. The upgrade charge was something measly like £60, so there was no advantage to me signing a new contract in any case.
I arranged everything through customer services and arranged to pick up the phone from my local shop, who I was told would have all the info. on their PC to do this. They didn't of course, and assumed I was entering an 18mth contract. I told them to speak to cust. services and after some faffing I signed a form and left the shop assuming I'd got what I arranged for.
__________________
Fast forward to this weekend and I've killed this replacement mobile. I went into my local shop to see what was on offer and found out I am still under contract until mid-July. This was the first instance I new of this.
I rang cust. services this morning to explain/clarify the situation and [to cut a long 'discussion' short] was told that it was basically impossible to have been given an upgrade for free without entering a new contract. They had no notes on my account relating to it and I was told to go to back to the shop and have the forms printed off that I signed on collecting the phone.
So here's the rub, on this form there is indeed a box that says the minimum connection period I've signed for is indeed 12mths. Apparently, my monthly bill also states this but I've never noticed. From a contract perspective I take it that the ruling is a no brainer in t-mobs favour. BUT, from my point of view I have been lied to or mislead by either their customer services dept. or by staff at the shop. I took it that I was simply signing a form of receipt for the new handset, not a service contract, and as such I believe it was missold to me.
________
Now, what should I do about it? I am putting a letter of complain together and am asking for written transcripts of the phonecalls I made to cust. services last January. What happens if they don't have them, is there anything I can do to progress the situation in my favour?
I'm quite pissed off about being lied to, so I just tried to reduce my monthly spend to the minimum possible to ty and gain some leverage. They won't do this either, so I enquired about the cost to cancel the contract. This is what is really confusing me.
As I read it, the terms and conditions relating to an 18mth contract are:
1]If you cancel in the first 12mths, you pay the total outstanding monthly charges plus a supplementary fixed fee.
2]If you cancel after 12mths but before 18mths, you only pay the supplementary fixed fee.
I queried what this fee is, and after being on hold forever, I was told the terms & conditions have changed and I am liable for a cancellation charge under part 1.
BUT, further on in the T&C's, it states that I am not liable for a cancellation charge if the terms & conditions have changed and those changes are of material detriment to me, which I read as I can now end the contract for nothing and spend the saving on a shiny new IPhone with their rivals!
Am I correct on this? Noone I've spoken to at their end can clarify it and I'm told simply to put it all in writing and include it with my complaint. I just need some guidance as to my position so I can word this complaint correctly and remain 'in the right' so much as is possible.
Again, aplogies for droning on, but with this being PH I am hopeful some nice person [with a very lovely car btw
] can advise me quickly and easily.
Thanks in advance,
Phil.
With reference to this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
My situation is that i have been with t-mob for 6 years now. Last January I broke my phone and needed a new one. At that point I had been out of contract for 6 mths and was on a rolling monthly one with a 30day notice period.
I called customer services to arrange an upgrade and was told that my options were to pay to have a new phone with no new tie-in period or get a new one on a 12 or 18mth contract. After playing the usual 'if thats the case then I'll leave' game I managed to get a free upgrade with the assurance I would remain on my rolling monthly contract. I did this specifically as i was interviewing for jobs on the continent and needed that flexibility to leave at any time. The upgrade charge was something measly like £60, so there was no advantage to me signing a new contract in any case.
I arranged everything through customer services and arranged to pick up the phone from my local shop, who I was told would have all the info. on their PC to do this. They didn't of course, and assumed I was entering an 18mth contract. I told them to speak to cust. services and after some faffing I signed a form and left the shop assuming I'd got what I arranged for.
__________________
Fast forward to this weekend and I've killed this replacement mobile. I went into my local shop to see what was on offer and found out I am still under contract until mid-July. This was the first instance I new of this.
I rang cust. services this morning to explain/clarify the situation and [to cut a long 'discussion' short] was told that it was basically impossible to have been given an upgrade for free without entering a new contract. They had no notes on my account relating to it and I was told to go to back to the shop and have the forms printed off that I signed on collecting the phone.
So here's the rub, on this form there is indeed a box that says the minimum connection period I've signed for is indeed 12mths. Apparently, my monthly bill also states this but I've never noticed. From a contract perspective I take it that the ruling is a no brainer in t-mobs favour. BUT, from my point of view I have been lied to or mislead by either their customer services dept. or by staff at the shop. I took it that I was simply signing a form of receipt for the new handset, not a service contract, and as such I believe it was missold to me.
________
Now, what should I do about it? I am putting a letter of complain together and am asking for written transcripts of the phonecalls I made to cust. services last January. What happens if they don't have them, is there anything I can do to progress the situation in my favour?
I'm quite pissed off about being lied to, so I just tried to reduce my monthly spend to the minimum possible to ty and gain some leverage. They won't do this either, so I enquired about the cost to cancel the contract. This is what is really confusing me.
As I read it, the terms and conditions relating to an 18mth contract are:
1]If you cancel in the first 12mths, you pay the total outstanding monthly charges plus a supplementary fixed fee.
2]If you cancel after 12mths but before 18mths, you only pay the supplementary fixed fee.
I queried what this fee is, and after being on hold forever, I was told the terms & conditions have changed and I am liable for a cancellation charge under part 1.
BUT, further on in the T&C's, it states that I am not liable for a cancellation charge if the terms & conditions have changed and those changes are of material detriment to me, which I read as I can now end the contract for nothing and spend the saving on a shiny new IPhone with their rivals!
Am I correct on this? Noone I've spoken to at their end can clarify it and I'm told simply to put it all in writing and include it with my complaint. I just need some guidance as to my position so I can word this complaint correctly and remain 'in the right' so much as is possible.
Again, aplogies for droning on, but with this being PH I am hopeful some nice person [with a very lovely car btw
] can advise me quickly and easily. Thanks in advance,
Phil.
I agree that I signed it, it says 12mths, I should've read it etc. but what if the transcript of the call agrees that they said I could have it with no tie-in? If they reverse their decision re: can't change anything about the contract until July then then changes my attitude and maybe I will remain with them.
If not then I want to cancel immediately with no revenue passing to them, which I believe I can do under their T&C's.
I can PM the exact wording of the T&C's if required.
Its a money and principal issue here. The principal being I was lied to, and it will cost me nearly £200 to sit here and lump it. Having being misbilled by t-mob for 6mths in the past with no refund given I am reluctant to do this.
It also riles me that I've been a customer for 6yrs which they don't seem to value, whereas I know people who have been with them just over 12mths and have a better deal than I do! Their customer services and 'loyalty' teams also don;t seem to know their arse from their elbow.
If not then I want to cancel immediately with no revenue passing to them, which I believe I can do under their T&C's.
I can PM the exact wording of the T&C's if required.
Its a money and principal issue here. The principal being I was lied to, and it will cost me nearly £200 to sit here and lump it. Having being misbilled by t-mob for 6mths in the past with no refund given I am reluctant to do this.
It also riles me that I've been a customer for 6yrs which they don't seem to value, whereas I know people who have been with them just over 12mths and have a better deal than I do! Their customer services and 'loyalty' teams also don;t seem to know their arse from their elbow.
Edited by shirt on Tuesday 17th February 15:01
T-Mobile did exactly the same to me about 14 months ago - "gifted" me a Nokia 6300 and promptly upped my contract for 12 months for accepting it. I then went in to a T-Mobile shop a few weeks later to properly sort out a new contract, only to be told tough...in keeping the 6300 you basically accepted we would renew you for 12 more months...etc..what did you expect, a new phone for nowt etc etc.
Well, I would have liked some clarity on what I was getting for what!!
I do empathise with you. I'm not legal, so I can offer you nothing but my sympathies.
Well, I would have liked some clarity on what I was getting for what!!
I do empathise with you. I'm not legal, so I can offer you nothing but my sympathies.
Hi I had exact same situation where I extended a contract when it came to contract renewal time
got my new phone agreed to 12 month contract - this was before al lthe ocmpanies started donig deals on 18 months
When I came ot the end of the 12 months I rang up to cancel and they said I had 6 months left. THey gave me a 18month instead of 12. So after a letter to complaints this was resolved and i got a free months rental
got my new phone agreed to 12 month contract - this was before al lthe ocmpanies started donig deals on 18 months
When I came ot the end of the 12 months I rang up to cancel and they said I had 6 months left. THey gave me a 18month instead of 12. So after a letter to complaints this was resolved and i got a free months rental
Furberger said:
Ignore, cancel DD. Throw all correspondents in the bin.
Not the way, Was the call recorded at the point when you was sent the new phone? As a distant seller here, we have to record any recomitments as the law states... As you done it over the phone, they would of needed to record the call as a 'verbal contract'...
However, on the basis that you've signed the contract, You're pretty screwed. Have you sent the signed contract back?
Soovy said:
shirt said:
I agree that I signed it, it says 12mths, I should've read it.
Game over.I'm glad its not just me though, I thought It'd be a sales/commission thing on their part.
shirt said:
Soovy said:
shirt said:
I agree that I signed it, it says 12mths, I should've read it.
Game over.I'm glad its not just me though, I thought It'd be a sales/commission thing on their part.
shirt said:
Soovy said:
shirt said:
I agree that I signed it, it says 12mths, I should've read it.
Game over.I'm glad its not just me though, I thought It'd be a sales/commission thing on their part.
Sorry mate, but you've not got a leg here.
You signed a written agreement. You're bound. If you didn't read it then it's hard cheese.
Sorry.
Edited by Soovy on Tuesday 17th February 15:29
bigTee said:
shirt said:
Soovy said:
shirt said:
I agree that I signed it, it says 12mths, I should've read it.
Game over.I'm glad its not just me though, I thought It'd be a sales/commission thing on their part.
i mean this part:
This is my interpretation, which is why I wanted clarity.
Re. other comments: My mobile is my only phone, so PAYG isn't an option. I am hoping they have transcripts of the original call, and they can't as yet provide me with a copy of the contract with my signature on. I've requested it though.
shirt said:
As I read it, the terms and conditions relating to an 18mth contract are:
1]If you cancel in the first 12mths, you pay the total outstanding monthly charges plus a supplementary fixed fee.
2]If you cancel after 12mths but before 18mths, you only pay the supplementary fixed fee.
I queried what this fee is, and after being on hold forever, I was told the terms & conditions have changed and I am liable for a cancellation charge under part 1.
BUT, further on in the T&C's, it states that I am not liable for a cancellation charge if the terms & conditions have changed and those changes are of material detriment to me, which I read as I can now end the contract for nothing
the change of T&C's means it costs me more to cancel, ergo detrimental in my view! I have been given the T&C's to which I signed the contract, which are a few versions adrift of the current ones. I specifically asked to speak to someone who knew the T&C's inside out and even he wouldn't advise me on my position. 1]If you cancel in the first 12mths, you pay the total outstanding monthly charges plus a supplementary fixed fee.
2]If you cancel after 12mths but before 18mths, you only pay the supplementary fixed fee.
I queried what this fee is, and after being on hold forever, I was told the terms & conditions have changed and I am liable for a cancellation charge under part 1.
BUT, further on in the T&C's, it states that I am not liable for a cancellation charge if the terms & conditions have changed and those changes are of material detriment to me, which I read as I can now end the contract for nothing
This is my interpretation, which is why I wanted clarity.
Re. other comments: My mobile is my only phone, so PAYG isn't an option. I am hoping they have transcripts of the original call, and they can't as yet provide me with a copy of the contract with my signature on. I've requested it though.
Edited by shirt on Tuesday 17th February 15:37
Edited by shirt on Tuesday 17th February 15:40
I had a similar thing a few years ago when I upgraded over the phone with Vodafone directly. I was assured I was signing up to a 12 month contract. I made notes during the conversation and at the end I read back everything we had agreed. I received the phone a few days later, popped the old sim card in and away I went.
Fast forward 14 months and I want to change phone to one that better suits what I use it for (3G, internet etc) only to be told that I had signed up to an 18 month agreement. I ended up speaking to one of their customer service managers who told me lie after lie after lie.
"You signed the contract so you must have agreed to 18 months."
I didn't sign anything, nor did I receive anything stating 18 months.
"It was in the paperwork with your phone when you received it."
No it wasn't. I have all the paperwork from then in front of me right now.
"By signing for the phone when the boc arrived you agreed to an 18 month contract."
That simply isn't true, and regardless, it wasn't actually me who signed for it.
"No-one else could have signed for it."
Well it wasn't me. I was in another country at the time.
"We sent you out paperwork to confirm that you were on an 18 month contract."
You didn't. I have all correspondence I have ever received from you, going back nearly a decade. I received no such letter.
"It is on every bill we send you."
It isn't. I am looking at them right now.
"You verbally agreed to 18 months when you got a new phone and that is binding."
I didn't. If you access the my records and listen to that conversation you will hear me read back the agreed terms, one of which was 12 months.
"We can't do that. You are on an 18 month contract and that is the end of it."
When asked for their name they wouldn't tell me. I'm not surprised because I'm fairly sure they were just another call centre operator and not manager at all. Apparantly they would put a note on my records to show I made that call. Next time I called there was no such note.
That time there was nothing I could do but for anything similar I now record the calls on my phone. It's just not worth the arguement. That said I'm sure they'd still have one even with indisputable proof. I'm wary to change to anyone else thought because I'm sure they're all as bad as each other and Vodafone's coverage is very good. I'm sure lots of people think the same.
Fast forward 14 months and I want to change phone to one that better suits what I use it for (3G, internet etc) only to be told that I had signed up to an 18 month agreement. I ended up speaking to one of their customer service managers who told me lie after lie after lie.
"You signed the contract so you must have agreed to 18 months."
I didn't sign anything, nor did I receive anything stating 18 months.
"It was in the paperwork with your phone when you received it."
No it wasn't. I have all the paperwork from then in front of me right now.
"By signing for the phone when the boc arrived you agreed to an 18 month contract."
That simply isn't true, and regardless, it wasn't actually me who signed for it.
"No-one else could have signed for it."
Well it wasn't me. I was in another country at the time.
"We sent you out paperwork to confirm that you were on an 18 month contract."
You didn't. I have all correspondence I have ever received from you, going back nearly a decade. I received no such letter.
"It is on every bill we send you."
It isn't. I am looking at them right now.
"You verbally agreed to 18 months when you got a new phone and that is binding."
I didn't. If you access the my records and listen to that conversation you will hear me read back the agreed terms, one of which was 12 months.
"We can't do that. You are on an 18 month contract and that is the end of it."
When asked for their name they wouldn't tell me. I'm not surprised because I'm fairly sure they were just another call centre operator and not manager at all. Apparantly they would put a note on my records to show I made that call. Next time I called there was no such note.
That time there was nothing I could do but for anything similar I now record the calls on my phone. It's just not worth the arguement. That said I'm sure they'd still have one even with indisputable proof. I'm wary to change to anyone else thought because I'm sure they're all as bad as each other and Vodafone's coverage is very good. I'm sure lots of people think the same.
gingerpaul said:
I'm wary to change to anyone else thought because I'm sure they're all as bad as each other and Vodafone's coverage is very good. I'm sure lots of people think the same.
I was told that i should move to orange y carphonewarehouse... "its has far far better deals which vodafone cant match" (which i had been with for 5 years).The coverage is almost better than vodafone..... yer ok... 5 months later with Orange im 4 months away from being able to envoke my insurance which can cancel the remaining contract and leave and head back to V .. (bugger)
Vodafone maybe a hassle to call but the coverage is something you cant live without.
t, not a lot you can do.In my experience all mobile companies are the same: riddled with incompetence and staffed by liars - even more so when it comes to resellers. Orange still owe me £200 from when one reseller signed me up without my knowledge to a second contract after they sent my phone to the wrong person. Orange said it was nothing to do with them and to take it up with the reseller to get the contract cancelled. Great, except the reseller swore blind it was nothing to do with them etc 
To the OP: move to a different provider by all means - just don't expect them to be any different.
Bitter? Moi?
To the OP: move to a different provider by all means - just don't expect them to be any different.
Bitter? Moi?
Edited by judas on Tuesday 17th February 17:09
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