993 RS Clubsport - Fair Price??

[mike2]

Hallo,

I'm new here:
My name is Michael and I'm from Germany. I'm looking for a 993 RS Clubsport.

As this car is very rare, it's very difficult to get an idea about a market price...

Now my questions:
A) What is an appropriate price for a superb clubsport (<15k miles, no track)? 50k pound?
B) Does someone know someone who has a Clubsport (except Dealers like H&S) just to ask some specific questions and to get a tip how to get a good one?

Thanks a lot.

Regards,

Michael

[Clubsport]

I don't think you are likely to find a 993 Clubsport that has not been tracked.
With the current eur/gbp exchange rate,you will probably find better value looking directly in Germany.
If a genuine non tracked 993 RS Clubsport lhd came up in the Uk for sale,I think it would be a sellers market,I have to guess at at least £55k starting point.
For a non Clubsport 993 RS lhd of which many more are produced I would think you would find the car for around £45k,,,that is for a low mileage untracked car.
Autoclassica recentlt advertised a rare 1/7 rhd 993 RSR for £75k.
try;
www.autoclassica.com
www.autofarm.co.uk

The owners i know with 993 Clubsport have both modified and tracked their cars heavily..They will not sell them as they tell me there is nothing to replace them with.

[mike2]

@ Clubsport:

Thank you.

I know it is very difficult to get a untracked car. But 3 years ago I bought a 964 Clubsport with 2k miles without track use. So you have to search and search and search.... and may be you get one.
And now I'm interested in a 993 in same condition.

Yesterday I talked to an english 993 Clubsport-Driver at the Nurburgring. A friend of him is now selling a white one for about 47k pound with 18k miles. But in the last 2 years this car has mainly been used for track days. So, not interesting for me..

You might be right to try it first in Germany. I'll do so.

@ all:
Does anyone else know something about a top Clubsport and a suitable market price?

Thanks.

Michael

[toby tucker]

Mike
you might want to have a look closer to home and see what Hermanns & Schmitz have in stock - their web site is:

www.911-rs.de/shoper.html

Toby

[Melv]

Mike -I've just been sent details of a 993RS that a guy wants to sell. Ex H & S car. No knowledge of the car at all, I'll find out more and forward details via your profile -so lookout for mail!!

Melv

[mike2]

@ toby

Thank you. I know the site of H&S.

A comparable Clubsport, which is offered there, is besides announced at mobile.de:

www.mobile.de/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&id=11111111126442608

But I'm just looking for a collector's car...

Nevertheless thank you...

>> Edited by mike2 on Monday 3rd November 13:17

[993rsr]

Mike, Can I ask why you are after a 'collection' condition car?

[Melv]

Mike -since I can't find yr e: (apologies Dom -no e-mail in Mike's profile)

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Peck Sent: 02 November 2003 10:39
To: 993rs
Subject: 993RS Club Sport


I am looking to sell my LHD Club Sport, purchased through Tom Schmitz two years ago.

Knowing how difficult it is to source these cars (from my own experience) I wondered if you guys have received any calls from potential buyers.

Please let me know if you know of anyone who might be interested (the vehicle has not been advertised yet)

Thanks and Best Wishes


Nick Peck

>> Edited by Melv on Monday 3rd November 13:59

>> Edited by domster on Monday 3rd November 14:46

>> Edited by Melv on Monday 3rd November 17:21

[domster]

No probs Merkin Melv.

Just make sure you delete the email addresses after Mike has noted them, or edit them to add spaces before and after the @ symbol. This stops the addresses being targeted by spammers who have automated email address gathering software.

Cheers
Dom

[mike2]

@ Melv:

Thank you. I have noted the e-mail address, you could delete it.

The e-mail sounds a little bit like the white car I described this morning.

Michael

[mike2]

993 RSR

A good question - like: DO you like women with blond or dark hair?

It's a question what type you are.

I'm not a racer and for me the performance of a standard Clubsport is sufficient. So I prefer an unmodified RS. And as I like original cars and I don't want to make compromise, I prefer cars in collection condition.

I want to use the Clubsport as a motorcycle substitute. I'll drive it few times per year on the road - not on track - just to enjoy the car and the good day.

On the one side I know the RS were made for tracks and racing and not for garages, but on the other side there must be some people who conserve the best Porsches ever built.

An other reason - especially the 964 RS - these cars are extremely rare and nevertheless unconspicuous.

Sorry, for my english

Michael

[993rsr]

Michael, I like girls with blond and dark hair! However I digress. I understand your point of view with reference to the preservation of the car, however with my 964rs Clubsport it feels so submlime on the track, I just could'nt resist it. If the white 993rs Clubsport you know of has Carrera RS decals down the side in red, I saw this car when H&S originally had it for sale, it was outside the Dorint Hotel at a Wheeltorque event. It was absolutely pristine, looked like it had never turned a wheel. Happy hunting.

[paulmc]

If its the car I remember Tom having then it also had the very rare factory ally doors.

I'd be interested in buying it if its still accident free and well looked after.

Micheal its worth giving Tom a ring because he is always aware of other cars that are never advertised especially when you are after collectors type cars as these tend to never get advertised. As an enthusiast of the marque I deal with RS's as a part time interest and when speaking to Tom last week he told me about a very nice 993 RS Clubsport with less than 10K km.

Good luck with your searching.

[mike2]

Thank you...

@ Melv:
I got an e-mail from Nick. The car, he's offering, is a not in collection condition. It has had small damages and has some modifications. May be a good car, but not for me...

@ Paul:
I will call Tom Schmitz, but I prefer buying a car direct from the owner than from a dealer, to get an idea what kind of person the previous owner is:
I bought my first 964 RS from a man who bought two new RS and a Cup at the factory in 1991. He excused that Porsche - before delivery - put the car in a car-wash. He would never do that. His wife said, when we sold the first RS, it was like giving away a baby...
If you buy a car from these people, you can be sure, you buy a good one.

Michael

>> Edited by mike2 on Wednesday 5th November 09:42

[roygarth]

What I've never understood is why anybody would pay a premium for a 'non-tracked' car when it is totally impossible to verify?

Brgds
Piers
993RS

[mike2]

I think track-used cars can be found out.

Indicators are e.g. stone pecking/repainting, different paint structure because of stone protection foil, underbody damage, tyre wear on the body...

Michael

>> Edited by mike2 on Wednesday 5th November 17:59

>> Edited by mike2 on Wednesday 5th November 18:30

[domster]

But is it better to have a gently tracked car, or a hard driven road car (with salt damage, stone chips, parking dents etc.).

Good luck in the search, anyway, Michael. A non-tracked, collection condition 993RS is a very rare car - one may turn up eventually, but it could be at huge cost. Autoclassica have had some expensive RSs in, not sure whether they were untracked or not, tho'.

I imagine you will pay at least 20k GBP more for an RS in the condition you require, compared to an average example.

[993rsr]

Domster, regarding the Autoclassica cars, the midnight blue rhd 993rs and the riviera blue rhd 993 rs Clubsport were owned by myself and a friend of mine.

In four years I had covered some 12,000 track miles in the midnight car, and in three years my friend had covered nearly 10,000 track miles.

With regular service work, and professional valeting both cars were immaculate, as was shown by their sale price. Just goes to show using them on track doesn't impact on their value one jot!

Oh, and the silver 993rs clubsport was Jez Gilmans car, he of FlatSix. Again used almost entirely for track work.

Low mileage examples that have been stood up almost invariably have more mechanical gremlins than ones that have been used as Porsche intended - Driven with enthusiasm!

[domster]

I agree. Use them as Ferdy intended, thrash the nuts off them and if they get badgered, patch them up and thrash them again. It's the only way.

Mike wants a collector's car, by the sounds of it. A shame not to give the car a little exercise, but a good choice, as it's a 'future classic' already.

[paulmc]

Hi 993RSR. Just realised who you are now you've described those 2 993 RS Clubsports.

I too think it can be very difficult to tell if a cars been on track. There are large variations to what going on track means, and then there's the finer point of keeping it on the track.

I've seen all ends of the scale, from the guy that drives his mint RS at a snails pace to the guy who turns up with a roof rack appendage on his RS with a full set of slicks ready for the hard days thrashing.

I personally don't see whats wrong with a bit of track work so long as its been properly maintained.