New to kit cars - where to start...??!!
Discussion
Hi all,
Been interested in owning a kit car for a while now and just started looking but it seems to be a bit of a mine field!!! I was after some advice on where to start and what to look for. I dont have a garage so will be buying a second hand pre-built kit for now and keeping it covered in the driveway. Pretty sure I want a '7' style or fisher fury and the budget is pretty tight at about £5-£6k. Looking for something to use 90%road/10% track so obviously not looking for racing spec but would like it to be pretty quick. Fastest car I have owned is my Leon 130 TDi so any of them will feel quick I assume! From what I have read and people I have chatted to, this is my thinking so far;
Kit list;
Sylva stryker
Fisher Fury
Tiger cat E1/Avon
MK Indy
Westfield
Locost (not sure on quality..??)
So far sticking to CEC, specifically 2.0 Zetec if possible, heard BEC can be more tempermental/harsh for road use etc but could be persuaded! What about x-flow and pinto engines or are they a bit old now and should I stick to Zetec? Also confused about what I should look for in suspension and rear axle? I have heard the terms 'live' axle but dont really know what this means and wether I need this or not?!
Also is it worth sitting/driving a few types before I decide or maybe going to a kit car show? I think there is one in Kent in April if I'm not mistaken?
Sorry for all the questions but any help would be greatly appereciated, thanks.
Ben.
Been interested in owning a kit car for a while now and just started looking but it seems to be a bit of a mine field!!! I was after some advice on where to start and what to look for. I dont have a garage so will be buying a second hand pre-built kit for now and keeping it covered in the driveway. Pretty sure I want a '7' style or fisher fury and the budget is pretty tight at about £5-£6k. Looking for something to use 90%road/10% track so obviously not looking for racing spec but would like it to be pretty quick. Fastest car I have owned is my Leon 130 TDi so any of them will feel quick I assume! From what I have read and people I have chatted to, this is my thinking so far;
Kit list;
Sylva stryker
Fisher Fury
Tiger cat E1/Avon
MK Indy
Westfield
Locost (not sure on quality..??)
So far sticking to CEC, specifically 2.0 Zetec if possible, heard BEC can be more tempermental/harsh for road use etc but could be persuaded! What about x-flow and pinto engines or are they a bit old now and should I stick to Zetec? Also confused about what I should look for in suspension and rear axle? I have heard the terms 'live' axle but dont really know what this means and wether I need this or not?!
Also is it worth sitting/driving a few types before I decide or maybe going to a kit car show? I think there is one in Kent in April if I'm not mistaken?
Sorry for all the questions but any help would be greatly appereciated, thanks.
Ben.
Hi Ben, and welcome.
There are loads of websites for advice,
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk
http://www.tigerownersclub.co.uk
http://www.wscc.co.uk
Locostbuilders is fab and a bit of a mecca for all kit cars, not just locosts.
Your list seems fairly realistic, however if you keep towards the top of your budget you should be able to do better than a Tiger Cat, as they use the complete sierra rear sub-frame so are heavy.
The BEC/CEC thing has been done to death on many forums, but in my experience (having owned a fireblade Fury, and currently building a CEC Locost) I found the BEC to wearing to drive at anything other than flat out. On the track, and early morning hoons it was utterly superb, but using it for my commute when the weather allowed was much less enjoyable. All BECs clonk on the lower gear changes if they aren't high in the revs, even with a TRT propshaft, so fine when hooning it, but my mechanical sympathy meant I often worried about it the rest of the time. I've decided to go for a fairly trick Pinto with race cam etc. so I haven't entirely lost high rpm thrills, but it should be slightly more of a tourer, I'm hoping sufficiently so that I can drive it to Spa/the Ring without too much discomfort. Definitely get a ride in a BEC, if you think you can put up with it, it is probably worth it, and you can always change later.
I wouldn't necessarily be worried by locost, but beware of home built chassis', take a tape measure and the book (Haynes or Ron Champion's as appropriate), and preferably someone who is familiar with the cars.
If you go the BEC route something like this would be a nice project, that is a LOT of car for the money, and you could probably get a grand for the trailer if you didn't want it.
CEC route I'd consider this 4age Super Six. Many people consider the 4age to give the best of both worlds as they can fairly easily be made to withstand ~9k rpm.
There are loads of websites for advice,
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk
http://www.tigerownersclub.co.uk
http://www.wscc.co.uk
Locostbuilders is fab and a bit of a mecca for all kit cars, not just locosts.
Your list seems fairly realistic, however if you keep towards the top of your budget you should be able to do better than a Tiger Cat, as they use the complete sierra rear sub-frame so are heavy.
The BEC/CEC thing has been done to death on many forums, but in my experience (having owned a fireblade Fury, and currently building a CEC Locost) I found the BEC to wearing to drive at anything other than flat out. On the track, and early morning hoons it was utterly superb, but using it for my commute when the weather allowed was much less enjoyable. All BECs clonk on the lower gear changes if they aren't high in the revs, even with a TRT propshaft, so fine when hooning it, but my mechanical sympathy meant I often worried about it the rest of the time. I've decided to go for a fairly trick Pinto with race cam etc. so I haven't entirely lost high rpm thrills, but it should be slightly more of a tourer, I'm hoping sufficiently so that I can drive it to Spa/the Ring without too much discomfort. Definitely get a ride in a BEC, if you think you can put up with it, it is probably worth it, and you can always change later.
I wouldn't necessarily be worried by locost, but beware of home built chassis', take a tape measure and the book (Haynes or Ron Champion's as appropriate), and preferably someone who is familiar with the cars.
If you go the BEC route something like this would be a nice project, that is a LOT of car for the money, and you could probably get a grand for the trailer if you didn't want it.
CEC route I'd consider this 4age Super Six. Many people consider the 4age to give the best of both worlds as they can fairly easily be made to withstand ~9k rpm.
Ben,
A live axle is what used to be used on RWD drive cars in the olden days; think Morris Minor or Ford Cortina. If you still don't know what I mean, take a look under the rear of a big lorry.
It's a big lump of cast iron with the diff in the middle and a wheel screwed on each end. Independent rear suspension is (usually) preferable.
A live axle is what used to be used on RWD drive cars in the olden days; think Morris Minor or Ford Cortina. If you still don't know what I mean, take a look under the rear of a big lorry.
It's a big lump of cast iron with the diff in the middle and a wheel screwed on each end. Independent rear suspension is (usually) preferable.
(NTDWM) and for 50quid less than your top end budget, also top of your car list, this one has just been added.................
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/912017.htm
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/912017.htm
Edited by Wanchaiwarrior on Tuesday 24th February 04:20
If you can hang on 'till May you can get to Stoneleigh show and have a good look round loads of cars then.
Also, if you can stretch the budget slightly to £7k you could go for a Sylva Riot, they are supposed to be an absolute blast, but you may well have to build it yourself (which may help ease the finance by spreading the cost).
Also, if you can stretch the budget slightly to £7k you could go for a Sylva Riot, they are supposed to be an absolute blast, but you may well have to build it yourself (which may help ease the finance by spreading the cost).
Thanks for the replies, that has helped. At least it sounds like I should avoid a live axle version!
I had seen all the cars mentioned, all looking great, but still difficult to know which way to go. I have a few friends with kit cars (MK Indy and Westfield) so will ask someone to come with me when it comes to viewing, just to be safe. I'm thinking the CEC route is probably best for me as I will be on the roads mainly and not so much the track.
Would it be worth going to the Kent kit car show in April? Just thinking if I wait unil May would the price of cars be going up what with summer just around the corner or does that not happen...?
Thanks again
Ben
I had seen all the cars mentioned, all looking great, but still difficult to know which way to go. I have a few friends with kit cars (MK Indy and Westfield) so will ask someone to come with me when it comes to viewing, just to be safe. I'm thinking the CEC route is probably best for me as I will be on the roads mainly and not so much the track.
Would it be worth going to the Kent kit car show in April? Just thinking if I wait unil May would the price of cars be going up what with summer just around the corner or does that not happen...?
Thanks again
Ben
I assume from the name you are near me... I would be more than happy to take you out in my BEC MK Indy on a dry day 
Might even be able to persuade Gingerbreadman to take you out in his Caterham as well so you can at least compare engine types if not chassis.
Might even be able to persuade Gingerbreadman to take you out in his Caterham as well so you can at least compare engine types if not chassis.Edited by Hobzy on Tuesday 24th February 23:46
hugh_ said:
A well setup live axle car will run rings round a poorly setup IRS car so might not be worth discounting straight away. The biggest difference is on uneven road surfaces where IRS copes better.
Dead on. I prefer the handling characteristics of a live axle 7 over IRS. There is another added advantage, as a rule LA cars are a bit lighter than IRS ones (certainly when it comes to Westies anyhow)....and they look something like this:
Edited by juansolo on Wednesday 25th February 06:55
I have an old westie (1989) when runs a modified x-flow and a live rear axle. Most people say that you cannot tell the difference between live or IRS.
Do try and get a ride in one and make sure that you fit in. I am 6ft 3 and i have to remove the seat of the westie in order to drive it. Not ideal.
As far as engines go, it depends on the power output that you would like and reliability. My x-flow is very slow to turn over due to the high compression etc and most of the cars that you see will be running modified motors. I would recommend going for a zetec only as parts are cheaper. I have just carried out a full engine rebuild and the parts were pretty price as these engines are becoming rarer and specialists only carry the parts.
Do try and get a ride in one and make sure that you fit in. I am 6ft 3 and i have to remove the seat of the westie in order to drive it. Not ideal.
As far as engines go, it depends on the power output that you would like and reliability. My x-flow is very slow to turn over due to the high compression etc and most of the cars that you see will be running modified motors. I would recommend going for a zetec only as parts are cheaper. I have just carried out a full engine rebuild and the parts were pretty price as these engines are becoming rarer and specialists only carry the parts.
[quote=Hobzy]I assume from the name you are near me... I would be more than happy to take you out in my BEC MK Indy on a dry day Might even be able to persuade Gingerbreadman to take you out in his Caterham as well so you can at least compare engine types if not chassis.
Thanks Hobzy, yes I live in Fareham and that would be great if it isnt too much trouble! I have only ever been in a 2.0 zetec westie for about 5 minutes and that was a few years back, so going for a quick spin would be a great help. Please let me know when you are free and we can sort something out!
So from the other posts, I wont rule anything out but be cautious of set up and build quality as opposed to what the actual parts used are. When it comes to size, I am not too concerned being only 'Hammond' sized I cant imagine any kit car would be too small for me!
Might even be able to persuade Gingerbreadman to take you out in his Caterham as well so you can at least compare engine types if not chassis.Thanks Hobzy, yes I live in Fareham and that would be great if it isnt too much trouble! I have only ever been in a 2.0 zetec westie for about 5 minutes and that was a few years back, so going for a quick spin would be a great help. Please let me know when you are free and we can sort something out!
So from the other posts, I wont rule anything out but be cautious of set up and build quality as opposed to what the actual parts used are. When it comes to size, I am not too concerned being only 'Hammond' sized I cant imagine any kit car would be too small for me!
Hobzy said:
I assume from the name you are near me... I would be more than happy to take you out in my BEC MK Indy on a dry day Might even be able to persuade Gingerbreadman to take you out in his Caterham as well so you can at least compare engine types if not chassis.
) this week and I'll give you a shout... If not I'll be out in it on the 15th for the south coast run...
Might even be able to persuade Gingerbreadman to take you out in his Caterham as well so you can at least compare engine types if not chassis.ben@fareham said:
Thanks Hobzy, yes I live in Fareham and that would be great if it isnt too much trouble! I have only ever been in a 2.0 zetec westie for about 5 minutes and that was a few years back, so going for a quick spin would be a great help. Please let me know when you are free and we can sort something out!
So from the other posts, I wont rule anything out but be cautious of set up and build quality as opposed to what the actual parts used are. When it comes to size, I am not too concerned being only 'Hammond' sized I cant imagine any kit car would be too small for me!
Let me just get my diff checked (I think I've done something to it So from the other posts, I wont rule anything out but be cautious of set up and build quality as opposed to what the actual parts used are. When it comes to size, I am not too concerned being only 'Hammond' sized I cant imagine any kit car would be too small for me!
) this week and I'll give you a shout... If not I'll be out in it on the 15th for the south coast run...Edited by Hobzy on Monday 9th March 10:42
toohuge said:
...Most people say that you cannot tell the difference between live or IRS.
That's true, but mainly because most Sevens are set up far too stiffly for road use. They're also usually over-wheeled and over-tyres, but that's another story (albeit a contributory one, 'cos if you've got 15" wheels and 225 section tyres, you've got to stiffen up the suspension to keep it all under control).A properly set-up IRS Seven, with appropriate wheels/tyres, spring and damper rates for road use, is in a different league to an equally well set-up live axle car.
There's a meeting of kit car owners every month at a pub called Sir John Barleycorn in Cadnum, postcode SO40 2NP. I think it's the second Tuesday evening of the month. I'm sure google would know exactly, or I can find out if you can't find it. I've been there a couple of times in mine and have found them to be a friendly bunch who are quite happy to show you around their cars and shoot the breeze.
Gingerbread Man said:
Hobzy said:
Gingerbread Man said:
Get it sorted, you promised the man!
Have you got a pit or ramps? Me neither... I need to get it to my pet mechanic in portsmouth but the weathers crap and i'm working 
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