Handbags and Intercoolers
Discussion
Haha, it'll bite back, you watch. 
As far as "heat soak" goes, it's of no consequence which intercooler is installed particularly, heat soak is the heat (oddly enough) soaked into the intercooler, from its surroundings, not what is being pulled out of the charge by the intercooler.
Engine bay heat, exhaust heat (usually while stationary/slow moving) is what causes I/C heat soak, so whatever make of intercooler it is, unless the factors that cause heat soak are materially altered, (difficult as the main cause is usually its location).
Additional shielding, on anything generating heat, like exhaust Etc. will help reduce heat soak.
Fan installation to pull heat away when stopped or slow moving can help that issue, but usually causes bigger problems at the opposite end which outweigh the advantages.
I'll leave it there for now and see which way this goes and respond accordingly if needed?
Mike.
As far as "heat soak" goes, it's of no consequence which intercooler is installed particularly, heat soak is the heat (oddly enough) soaked into the intercooler, from its surroundings, not what is being pulled out of the charge by the intercooler.
Engine bay heat, exhaust heat (usually while stationary/slow moving) is what causes I/C heat soak, so whatever make of intercooler it is, unless the factors that cause heat soak are materially altered, (difficult as the main cause is usually its location).
Additional shielding, on anything generating heat, like exhaust Etc. will help reduce heat soak.
Fan installation to pull heat away when stopped or slow moving can help that issue, but usually causes bigger problems at the opposite end which outweigh the advantages.
I'll leave it there for now and see which way this goes and respond accordingly if needed?
Mike.
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
What have we achieved by 'upgrading' then I suppose is the pertinent question. If we've not been trying to get away from the effects of heatsoak, what have we been doing? If nothing else my intercooler looks much nicer than the Noble one.
What one did you choose phil? S26VE P said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
What have we achieved by 'upgrading' then I suppose is the pertinent question. If we've not been trying to get away from the effects of heatsoak, what have we been doing? If nothing else my intercooler looks much nicer than the Noble one.
What one did you choose phil? may look nicer,which i dont think it does.90 degree bent doesnt lend itself very well to flow...i disagree that it even workes much better,ok maybe a bit.maybe we should do a test,n prehaps put some money on it,regarding temperature drops of, say the very expensive ones fitted to a few of the nobles out there including phils,against something different. there is very little airflow at the intercooler ,as documented hundreds of times,so no matter how big the core,same problem occurs. next.....................
Couldn't resist, if the air exit path is adjusted there is loads of available airflow as proven in the Mira windtunnel, The proalloy intercooler is capable of dropping the outlet temperature to 40 degrees Celsius in and ambient of 23 degrees, and in fact only increases by 2 degrees when standing at a petrol station for 5 minutes, as fully datalogged and recorded by Roush Technologies.
These figures were repeatedly confirmed and logged on the dash of the racecar last season, which probably generates more heat than any of the cars mentioned in these forums.
These figures were repeatedly confirmed and logged on the dash of the racecar last season, which probably generates more heat than any of the cars mentioned in these forums.
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
What have we achieved by 'upgrading' then I suppose is the pertinent question. If we've not been trying to get away from the effects of heatsoak, what have we been doing? If nothing else my intercooler looks much nicer than the Noble one.
It depends on your individual set-up, Turbocharged cars are all about good thermal management. My car for example with the T25's is currently being pushed up to a little under a bar, that is on the edge of its compressor efficiency map and is out of its "sweet spot" so working a lot harder to generate the pressure/flow being asked of it. Heat is also being passed across from the exhaust gas through the Turbine housing, which as well as being hot is under pressure (exhaust back pressure) and remember, anything being squashed/compressed gets hot.The intercooler is heating up the intake charge, both from the heat transitioning directly from the Turbo, but also because it's being compressed. Hot air is thinner (less dense) and as such contains less oxygen, less oxygen means less fuel which means (on the whole) less power. The more heat which can be extracted from the intake charge the better. (The exact opposite is the case for exhaust gasses within reason).
I/C efficiency can be measured directly by monitoring pre and post intercooler temps. (we do this with a K sensor when testing I/C efficiency), but pressure drop across the intercooler is also undesirable. If an I/C is too restrictive, it makes the Turbo have to work a lot harder to push air through it and that work heats the air up even more causing a vicious circle, and usually results in managing to cap the total power achievable on that I/C.
There are many heat related misconceptions, heat wrap on exhausts for example. It's there to keep the exhaust gas hot. Hot gasses flow easier, creating less Exhaust Gas back pressure, this helps the Turbo to spin up earlier and easier. The cooling of the engine bay is an advantageous side effect, and not the primary reason why exhausts, headers, Turbine housings should be well insulated.
A better Intercooler would usually need to be of bar and plate design, (as opposed to the cheap fin and tube on the OEM item), however, so far the OEM item has impressed me more than I thought it would. I've only monitored temps during the set-up mapping, but mine has been of no cause for concern so far in either flow or inefficiency. I'll do more accurate testing when I start to see the tell tale signs when/if they occurr.
I'll further add that I haven't looked at any of the aftermarket Intercoolers available yet, and have not commented anywhere either way as to their value/efficiency.
I have some post intercooler intake temp data on the dyno, I think Trevor suggested/anticipated circa 200 degrees (C I assume) in another thread. I'm sure it wasn't even close to that though, unless he meant pre-intercooler? Will check the dyno plots tomorrow if anyone's interested?
Mike.
Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Thursday 26th February 19:54
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Ah well. Sadly, I can't be bothered to type as much as you 
I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.
Well, for the reasons given above, it's unlikely that your new intercooler has affected "heat soak" issues particularly. I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.If it's more efficient than the factory one though, it will benefit it faster, and further up than the factory item and intake heat at low RPM is really not as critical anyway. That's where the benefits are required anyway.
Mike.
Mike Tuckwood said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Ah well. Sadly, I can't be bothered to type as much as you I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.
Well, for the reasons given above, it's unlikely that your new intercooler has affected "heat soak" issues particularly. I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Mike Tuckwood said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Ah well. Sadly, I can't be bothered to type as much as you I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.
Well, for the reasons given above, it's unlikely that your new intercooler has affected "heat soak" issues particularly. I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.<Is it humble Pie>?
Mike.
Ok i,m going to comment on this because i feel you are BOTH RIGHT !!! the need to control heat soke at low speed or stopped is very important ,i am dealing with this on my car as i feel its a big problem ,if anyone is interested i will put up pictures , phil your bigger intercooler will suffer the same amount of heatsoke as a std one but because of its better air cooling ability should keep inlet temps lower for a longer time and cool quicker !! in my opinion nobles would benifit more from heat control in the engine bay rather than just fitting a bigger intercooler although dealing with both issues would be better and no doubt give better power in the long run .
ok i,m
ok i,m
Mike Tuckwood said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Mike Tuckwood said:
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
Ah well. Sadly, I can't be bothered to type as much as you I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.
Well, for the reasons given above, it's unlikely that your new intercooler has affected "heat soak" issues particularly. I got a new intercooler to negate as many heatsoak effects as possible and drop the air temperature as much as possible. That's my definition of a good intercooler. If that's in your text somewhere we agree.<Is it humble Pie>?
Mike.
. I'd say it's the perfect definition of heatsoak.Open wide Mikey boy. It's either enjoy the pie for what it is, or pie in the face
TuxMan said:
phil your bigger intercooler will suffer the same amount of heatsoke as a std one but because of its better air cooling ability should keep inlet temps lower for a longer time and cool quicker !!
Absolutely! The issue is the old one gets hotter and hotter at speed. It never gets rid of the heat(soaked into it).ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
TuxMan said:
phil your bigger intercooler will suffer the same amount of heatsoke as a std one but because of its better air cooling ability should keep inlet temps lower for a longer time and cool quicker !!
Absolutely! The issue is the old one gets hotter and hotter at speed. It never gets rid of the heat(soaked into it).The ability of the intercooler to disipate heat doesn't alter what "heat soak is".
How much ignition advance was being pulled via temp correction at the ECU?
Mike.
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