Bullet cam & recorder device opinions needed please......

[Longers]

Hi all

(I've also posted this in the photo & vid forum but thought it might get a different audience here)

I'd like to get a bullet cam to mount on my car. Using the PH search function and other enquiries have lead me to the following suppliers, all of which seem highly recommended....
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/index.html
http://www.4kam.com/index.htm
http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk

Choosing a camera seems to be pretty easy but I'm struggling with the recorder.

A conventional video cam with an AV input would mean it could also be used outside of the car for other stuff but they are harder to find now (according to the guys at Dogcam the tax on new ones with AV in has been increased so they are not so common as they used to be, although they do crop up on ebay).

Ideally I'd like the footage to be viewable on a TV at reasonable quality, not just on a PC, but I'm aware that to get a high enough resolution for the TV can get very expensive!! I've seen these and wondered if anyone had any experience of them?
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mini-dvr-1-digital-vi...
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/solid-state-mp4-recor...
http://www.4kam.com/4Kam_DV1_DVR_digtal_video_reco...
http://www.4kam.com/4Kam_DV3_DVR_digtal_video_reco...

Any views on the above, or alternatives, will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Longers

[SpeedyDave]

Do you specifically need a bullet cam or would a lightweight camcorder do?

I've been using an Aiptek A-HD+ and after seeing the hi-def results I've lost all interest in bullet cams, at least until some sensibly priced hi-def bullets are available.

http://www.amazon.com/Aiptek-1080P-Definition-Camc...

See my Nurburgring videos thread in this forum for some examples. Bear in mind the quality is quite a lot better than you see there on YouTube & Vimeo though.

These cams are cheap enough you don't worry about knocking them around, no tape or drive to suffer from vibrations, small, light, good results. Plus you can grab easily to go film other stuff out of the car.

Hard to beat IMO

Edited by SpeedyDave on Friday 27th February 14:31

[SpeedyDave]

Oh and I should add that the A-HD+ has a video-in so can also be used as a recorder for a bullet cam. It doesn't record hi-def through the vid-in though, just 640x480 I think. For £100 why get a digi recorder for your bullet when you can get something that does the same but also hi-def by itself too?

I get mine in the US where they are a fair bit cheaper, I think this model has a different name in Europe but check the specs as there are sometimes subtle differences (I think the Euro ones sometimes lack the vid-in feature)

Edited by SpeedyDave on Friday 27th February 18:19

[kevin63]

I have used the cheap option, it's an Action Cam and cost me £60 of ebay, it is water proof and can record one hour on a 2GB SD card and no wires, here is a clip I took with the Camera mounted at the side of my number plate on the Cerbera and at the legal speed limits too may I add. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zftSCM9WuBY

[Longers]

Thanks for your replies gents.

Dave, that's just what I was looking for! I agree that a proper digi cam would be more useable than a bullet cam & recorder. Your Ring vid's certainly look excellent in HD

The only thing still pulling me to the bullet cam approach is their small size and flexibity of where to mount them either inside or outside the car using brackets, suckers etc. Also a proper bullet cam microphone hidden in a footwell or behind a seat will probably be better able to exploit the sound of my TVR by not being exposed to the wind noise that the Aiptek would be when on my roll bar However, that will work out a LOT more expensive than the more useable Aiptek .......

Time for a think I think!

Cheers,
Longers

[SpeedyDave]

Longers said:

The only thing still pulling me to the bullet cam approach is their small size and flexibity of where to mount them either inside or outside the car using brackets, suckers etc.

Agreed. The Aipteks are very light though and at similar cost to good low res bullet cams (minus the recorder!). I haven't tried mounting outside the car but I won't hesitate to do so. Hell, at this price I'll gaffa tape & velcro them all over the bodywork.

Longers said:

Also a proper bullet cam microphone hidden in a footwell or behind a seat will probably be better able to exploit the sound of my TVR by not being exposed to the wind noise that the Aiptek would be when on my roll bar

If you want a remote mike spend a few extra quid and get the new GVS model;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001GXR03U/ref=s9...

Has a mic-in port. I've just bought one but not had a chance to do any test vids yet. I originally got the A-HD+ because it has no optical zoom and therefor doesn't autofocus hunt onto stupid stuff like a bugsplat on the windscreen. This new model has a 5x optical zoom but also a focus lock feature so you can stop it hunting.

It also has digital image stabilizing which the earlier models lack so should smooth out the vibration quite a bit.

Basically its a much better general purpose handicam into the bargain. It doesn't do AV-in though, from their previous models I expect that will arrive in a later release of the same version.

Also worth mentioning that these cams shoot hi-def 720p at 60 frames per sec Vimeo clips etc only show 25fps of that, the orginal file is much much smoother.

All the Aipteks are a bit plasticy and definitly feel much cheaper in the hand than the stuff that costs 5 to 10 times more. Can't argue with the results or the price though. This GVS is the third Aiptek I've bought in 18 months!

[Longers]

Thanks again Dave

The new model looks great! Having thought about I think it's more important for me to have the flexibility of mounting the mic out of the wind rather than having an AV-in. Like you say, the Aipteks are small enough to mount anywhere in or out of the car AND their image quality looks a whole lot better than a bullet. I see they also do a remote control which will be handy if the camera isn't in an easy to reach position when driving

Only problem is where to buy it! All of the sites I've looked at say they only ship to the US. Where did you get yours from?

Cheers

[Jubal]

If you are planing to do days at any MSV circuits then be advised they have banned all suction mounts anyway.

[Longers]

Cheers for the info but I'll only be using the kit on Road Trips rather than on track. Well, at this stage anyway!!

[Meeerrrk]

i use a 4kam set up. very pleased & their customer service seems spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k8JJxVC-vk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GS2LnFG7KQ

[Spiky.2wd.Cossie]

speedydave,

that device looks very good,

i have been looking for DVR as i want to run 2-3 camera on the car, using a 4 quad processer,

and that camera looks idea to use as a DVR,

does it record to solid state or Hard disk?

[SpeedyDave]

Longers said:

I see they also do a remote control which will be handy if the camera isn't in an easy to reach position when driving

Only problem is where to buy it! All of the sites I've looked at say they only ship to the US. Where did you get yours from?

Remote is included with certain models, including the ActionHD GVS.

That model is called the "PocketDV AHD Z600" over here.

https://www.aiptekshop.de/product_info.php?cPath=8...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001EZYO70/ref=...

The spec seems to be near identical except for a couple of things like 3x zoom vs 5x.
Unfortunately buying in Europe means paying nearly 50% more so if you can find a way to get one from the US its worth it. Its below the duty-free threshold for carry in items if you're traveling.

I travel to the US once or twice a year so I pick up the new model whenever I'm there

At this point I should mention the only drawback I can think of with these cams. Battery is pretty small so runtime is short. On the upside the batts are a very common "NP-60" which you can buy a truckload of for peanuts.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_ce?url=search-...

(careful to get the right one, I think there may be more than one batt out there called NP60) There is also a double siez batt available.

[SpeedyDave]

Spiky.2wd.Cossie said:

speedydave,

that device looks very good,

i have been looking for DVR as i want to run 2-3 camera on the car, using a 4 quad processer,

and that camera looks idea to use as a DVR,

does it record to solid state or Hard disk?

All these Aipteks record to SD card, generally the Hi-def models can take SDHC cards up to 32GB good for 12hrs of hi-def

If you're using the AV-in its only going to be 640x480 so you won't need much storage anyway.

You need to check the model specs carefully, only some models have AV-in and it seems often the US version does when the Euro version does not. The AV-in is done through a shared AV-in/out socket so you can't tell if it does AV-in just by checking if it has the socket.


/edit, come to think of it, if its strictly for DVR purposes you could get away with one of the non HD models which would be cheaper

https://www.aiptekshop.de/product_info.php?cPath=8...

Edited by SpeedyDave on Tuesday 3rd March 01:09

[bb1]

Hi Dave,

Do them cameras have the screw in hole at the base to fit to a mount?
Thanks

[SpeedyDave]

bb1 said:

Hi Dave,

Do them cameras have the screw in hole at the base to fit to a mount?
Thanks

Yep, standard 1/4" mount used by pretty much all camera / vid stuff.

[Spiky.2wd.Cossie]

have you got any footage at the AV-IN rate?

[Longers]

Spiky.2wd.Cossie said:

have you got any footage at the AV-IN rate?

There's some examples here from the Mini DVR1 which records at 640x480 which seem good enough for playing on a PC......
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/video.htm
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/mini-dvr-1-digital-vi...

Thanks to Dave for his advice above the Aipteks seem the best bet for me: higher quality from main camera so family videos etc can be played back on TV, options for bullet cam (at reduced quality which will be fine for occasional use) or external mic's plus more useable for day to day stuff outside of the car, and all at the same time as being cheaper than a comparable bullet cam/recorder package

Just need to decide which one to get now

[SpeedyDave]

I'm seeing a problem here. The only Aiptek models on the European site that explicitly list AV-in are all low-def models.

PocketDV 8900, PocketDV 8800, PocketDV 6800

Kind of annoying that European delivered models often seem to have the AV-in feature deleted while being the same in every other regard.

For example the US model "A-HD" is clearly the same as the European "Pocket DV AHD 300".

Perhaps they have simply failed to list the AV-in feature in the specs, but you'd need to find someone who has one to find out (or buy from somewhere with a nice returns policy...).

If it turns out the Euro models really do omit the AV-in it might even be worth buying from the US. For the models mentioned above the prices are
A-HD $110 USD (=£80)
AHD300 £149 GBP
(from Amazon.com and Amazon.co.uk)

ie so much cheaper even with tax/duty and shipping you probably still come out ahead.



Spiky, I'll try to remember to shoot a short example clip at 640x480, although it will be from the cam's own internal lens/sensor so the result using AV-in would be somewhat different and dependant on the bullet cam. I don't have a bullet cam to test with.

Edited by SpeedyDave on Monday 9th March 16:51

[bb1]

With the ones with the AV-in, would it be possible to record the pedals with a bullet camera whilst recording the track ahead with the main lens in high definition?
What is the noise quality like on the camera without using a mike?
Regarding the battery, how low would the last? Would they last say 6x 20 minute sessions? Could you possibly get a power cable to run the camera from the cigarette lighter output?
Thanks

[Longers]

I started off this thread with lots of questions but thanks to the help I've received above and research I've carried out myself I can try "give something back" (!) as follows......

bb1 said:

With the ones with the AV-in, would it be possible to record the pedals with a bullet camera whilst recording the track ahead with the main lens in high definition?

No, it's bullet cam OR main lens. If you want to record from 2 or more cameras at the same time you'll need one of these....
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/datatoys-xm-dvr-pro.h... or these if you have the ££££'s...
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/racelogic-video-vbox....
Much cheaper to get 2 Aipteks

bb1 said:

What is the noise quality like on the camera without using a mike?

Here is a link to some of speedydave's (impressive) videos.....
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
Sound on those clips appears great to me but that's from inside a closed car. Because I have a soft top and will have the camera mounted either outside the car or above my head on the roll bar I think that wind noise will definitely be a problem. Advice I've had from these http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk is that a remote mic buried behind a seat or in a footwell will sound a lot better. I'll be trying it without first to see how it goes before buying an external one

bb1 said:

Regarding the battery, how low would the last? Would they last say 6x 20 minute sessions?

I'd always have a couple of spare batteries to hand just in case. Afterall, they're pretty cheap!

bb1 said:

Could you possibly get a power cable to run the camera from the cigarette lighter output?
Thanks

Yes, check out the Aiptek website.

There you go, sounds like I almost know what I'm talking about now

Longers