Tip's for first time starting on Emerald
Discussion
Right, it's getting very close to first time start up!
Any tips for getting it started?
Should I turn it over a few times to get the oil pressure up(newly built engine with serp front end) or just rely on the pump pressuring the oil when it fires?
Obviously want to get it running quick so I can get it up to 2k to bed the cam in.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Any tips for getting it started?
Should I turn it over a few times to get the oil pressure up(newly built engine with serp front end) or just rely on the pump pressuring the oil when it fires?
Obviously want to get it running quick so I can get it up to 2k to bed the cam in.
Any thoughts appreciated.
New unknown ECU and newly built engine are a bad combination. Is there any possibility at all of running it on something tried and trusted just to get it fired up quickly, even if it is not something you would trust to drive it? Even literally an SU trunked up to a throttle body would be more likely to start then a new unknown ECU that could need hours of playing.
The first few minutes of a newly built engine's life are critical and you really really don't want to be cranking it over trying to trouble shoot the ECU.
The first few minutes of a newly built engine's life are critical and you really really don't want to be cranking it over trying to trouble shoot the ECU.
Fair comment Pete and something I had already thought of, but unfortunately not. The engine didnt come with a dizzy and the old engine had a pre-serp dizzy.
Hence the thread, If i can check as many things as possible before trying to start the engine....
ETA Makes you wonder how LR and TVR went on? I know they were production looms but I cant believe that all the engines fired first time and cams were run in?
Hence the thread, If i can check as many things as possible before trying to start the engine....
ETA Makes you wonder how LR and TVR went on? I know they were production looms but I cant believe that all the engines fired first time and cams were run in?
Edited by AntonyJ on Sunday 1st March 21:12
Edited by AntonyJ on Sunday 1st March 21:21
Edited by AntonyJ on Sunday 1st March 21:39
Who built the engine? If it's not you, you may find they have already run it, or would able to run it if asked. It's only the first twenty minutes or so which are really critical, unfortunately that is also the time you can expect to spend getting it fired up on your new ECU even if it goes well. Cranking it over on the starter (oil pressure or no) is just about the worst thing you can do to a newly built engine so you would be advised to look for ways to avoid it.
Surely there's a base-map from Emerald that can be used? It only has to run at 2000 RPM for 20 minutes.
If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
dnb said:
Surely there's a base-map from Emerald that can be used? It only has to run at 2000 RPM for 20 minutes.
I'm sure there is, but you've got to expect teething troubles such as getting the crank sensor polarity right, teeth alignment right, ignition configuration correct, injector scaling correct, all sensors working. You would have to be extremely lucky or extremely good to get a new ECU installation to fire up at the first turn of the key. You could probably expect to get it running within twenty minutes assuming nothing major wrong, but that's a lot of cranking which is the very last thing you want for a new cam.Mine went first time. Frightened the life out of me since I didn't expect it...
With my ECU (not emerald), I found I could fire the injectors and spark the plugs from the GUI without the engine running. This gave me considerable confidence everything was wired up correctly. There was also a way of introducing a trigger pattern into the ECU which I didn't use on the grounds it was complicated and I was getting impatient and wanted to run the engine!
Not sure what can be done in the Emerald software, but I suspect there is scope for at least some of the above.
With my ECU (not emerald), I found I could fire the injectors and spark the plugs from the GUI without the engine running. This gave me considerable confidence everything was wired up correctly. There was also a way of introducing a trigger pattern into the ECU which I didn't use on the grounds it was complicated and I was getting impatient and wanted to run the engine!
Not sure what can be done in the Emerald software, but I suspect there is scope for at least some of the above.
AntonyJ said:
The engine didnt come with a dizzy and the old engine had a pre-serp dizzy.
..and what difference is there???Not needing to drive an oil pump you should even be able to use an old SD1 dizzy even? All the cam drives are the same AFIK and you still need the cam drive to space to the button unless you installed a P38 cam & retainer don't you?
Planning to jury rigging the Lucas (even over the wing) would have been the prudent thing to do IMHO
dnb said:
Surely there's a base-map from Emerald that can be used? It only has to run at 2000 RPM for 20 minutes.
If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
Yes ,Emerald have supplied a base map as they always do. If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
Was really just after pointers of things to check.
Will sort it.
Edited by AntonyJ on Monday 2nd March 07:48
Antony,
I have the same dilema (in a few months time) .. but at least my Emerald did run before I ripped out the old engine.
Some issues I had to get the Emerald started were :
Very poor / non existant spark from the coil packs .. this turned out to be the crank pick-up sensor - two wires - wrong way round. Well worth pulling a spare set of plugs on the leads and checking you have a spark - if you also leave the rocker covers unbolted you can also check if the oil is flowing too..
Also worth doing - mark 20 degrees on the crank pulley - you will need this to set the reference timing.
If you want a copy of my Emerald map - send me a mail and I'll send it to you.
It's also worth noting that even though you set-up the timing as specified by Emerald - and with the crank sensor at approx the same place - we end up by keep adding 20 degrees to the ignition set-up until it fires and this value is kept on the ECU and not the map (if you wonder why it's zero).
I have the same dilema (in a few months time) .. but at least my Emerald did run before I ripped out the old engine.
Some issues I had to get the Emerald started were :
Very poor / non existant spark from the coil packs .. this turned out to be the crank pick-up sensor - two wires - wrong way round. Well worth pulling a spare set of plugs on the leads and checking you have a spark - if you also leave the rocker covers unbolted you can also check if the oil is flowing too..
Also worth doing - mark 20 degrees on the crank pulley - you will need this to set the reference timing.
If you want a copy of my Emerald map - send me a mail and I'll send it to you.
It's also worth noting that even though you set-up the timing as specified by Emerald - and with the crank sensor at approx the same place - we end up by keep adding 20 degrees to the ignition set-up until it fires and this value is kept on the ECU and not the map (if you wonder why it's zero).
AntonyJ said:
dnb said:
Surely there's a base-map from Emerald that can be used? It only has to run at 2000 RPM for 20 minutes.
If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
Yes ,Emerald have supplied a base map as they always do. If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
Was really just after pointers of things to check.
Will sort it.
Edited by AntonyJ on Monday 2nd March 07:48
The AJP Griff said:
AntonyJ said:
dnb said:
Surely there's a base-map from Emerald that can be used? It only has to run at 2000 RPM for 20 minutes.
If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
Yes ,Emerald have supplied a base map as they always do. If not, then you can work out approximate fuelling requirements from first principles - I have an excel spreadsheet that may help from when I built my v8 if you need it. Timing of 10 to 20 degrees would work.
Warm-up enrichment and crank fuelling will be unknowns that also need to be filled in so just stick in exponential decays from "lots" (about 170% of normal fuel at -40C worked for me) down to "normal" for them over the temperature range you want to work over and it'll not be far wrong. You don't need to worry about acceleration enrichment or idling etc.
Was really just after pointers of things to check.
Will sort it.
Edited by AntonyJ on Monday 2nd March 07:48
trackcar said:
Are you running a lambda sensor Anthony? Howard's map doesn't have lambda enabled, just in case you didn't realise.
Have a lambda in Joolz, will go through the complete config before starting, just wont enable adapative or closed loop.Quite looking forward to going through the config and checking setting things, must be the ex-robot programmer in me..
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