Replacing silicone air intakes on 4.5 cerb
Discussion
Moany said:
The silicone air intakes on my cerb are worn and need replacing soon, I have been looking at the track car solutions kit, anyone used this stuff and if so any good, is standard hoses better or any other suggestions
If you want the std length then ACT do replacements that are better priced and quality than TVR ones,i believe,they also do the short induction hoses if you want them.Give Tim(ACT) a call and he'll talk through the options.I have Track car solutions ones on mine,but will be replacing with the ACT stuff,it's really decent quality 
SL500 said:
Did you have the engine re-mapped when you fitted yours?
yes we did,it's pretty much essential if you fit the short induction,but if your just fitting the std length ACT ones then it's not necesary as theyre a direct replacement.If you need a re-map i would strongly recommend using Austec.Re mapped AJP's is a bit of a contentious issue at the moment,with at least a few people having suffered serious problems after having re-maps done by a certain 'specialist',and it would seem that there could be many more out there driving around with maps in thier car that are slowly but surely damaging thier engines.Having suffred very badly from the services of the same guy,i have talked to a few about it,and also,some naturally dont want to talk.Obviously your not allowed to say too much on a public forum under the name and shame rules,but i would advise to choose your re-map carefully.I'm only aware of Austec as the other company who can re-map these engines(or more correctly,the MBE ecu for them),but their might be others such as TVR Power,Str8six etc?First port of call for advice on short induction,mapping etc would be ACT.
The AJP Griff said:
SL500 said:
Did you have the engine re-mapped when you fitted yours?
yes we did,it's pretty much essential if you fit the short induction,but if your just fitting the std length ACT ones then it's not necesary as theyre a direct replacement.If you need a re-map i would strongly recommend using Austec.Re mapped AJP's is a bit of a contentious issue at the moment,with at least a few people having suffered serious problems after having re-maps done by a certain 'specialist',and it would seem that there could be many more out there driving around with maps in thier car that are slowly but surely damaging thier engines.Having suffred very badly from the services of the same guy,i have talked to a few about it,and also,some naturally dont want to talk.Obviously your not allowed to say too much on a public forum under the name and shame rules,but i would advise to choose your re-map carefully.I'm only aware of Austec as the other company who can re-map these engines(or more correctly,the MBE ecu for them),but their might be others such as TVR Power,Str8six etc?First port of call for advice on short induction,mapping etc would be ACT.
Not the first time I've heard this about remapping done by either team.
However strangely owners seem to be rather unwilling to post on the forum.
I also think owners are rather focussed on the 400bhp target and completely ignore area under the graph, putting undue pressure on the mappers.
I also think overfuelling, while creating an artificial safety zone for antiknock also has its own problems with incomplete fuel burn, and deposit build up.
I have also driven with owners who drive their cars seemingly unaware of the fact that their right foot controls the amount of knocking of the engine. You could actually hear the engine knocking and they were seemingly unaware of it or thought the best course of action was to bury the foot to the floor.
I wouldn't map anyone elses car for all the tea in China.
If I ever got my car mapped I would think it was my job to inspect the bores and piston head after a few thousand miles for signs of problems and return the car if the mapping didn't suit my driving style, irrespective of the pub bragging figure.
I think if you have your car mapped and then a few thousand miles later the engine is screwed the blame is split pretty evenly between mapper and owner.
Recommending one indie instead of another when the problem is obviously integral to what you are asking to be done is misleading, at best.
However strangely owners seem to be rather unwilling to post on the forum.
I also think owners are rather focussed on the 400bhp target and completely ignore area under the graph, putting undue pressure on the mappers.
I also think overfuelling, while creating an artificial safety zone for antiknock also has its own problems with incomplete fuel burn, and deposit build up.
I have also driven with owners who drive their cars seemingly unaware of the fact that their right foot controls the amount of knocking of the engine. You could actually hear the engine knocking and they were seemingly unaware of it or thought the best course of action was to bury the foot to the floor.
I wouldn't map anyone elses car for all the tea in China.
If I ever got my car mapped I would think it was my job to inspect the bores and piston head after a few thousand miles for signs of problems and return the car if the mapping didn't suit my driving style, irrespective of the pub bragging figure.
I think if you have your car mapped and then a few thousand miles later the engine is screwed the blame is split pretty evenly between mapper and owner.
Recommending one indie instead of another when the problem is obviously integral to what you are asking to be done is misleading, at best.
Edited by julian64 on Monday 2nd March 09:14
julian64 said:
Not the first time I've heard this about remapping done by either team.
However strangely owners seem to be rather unwilling to post on the forum.
Name and shame rules Julian, nothing we can do about that, although Mike is about as close to the line as one can get. However strangely owners seem to be rather unwilling to post on the forum.
julian64 said:
I also think owners are rather focussed on the 400bhp target and completely ignore area under the graph, putting undue pressure on the mappers.
Not true for me, my car can only make so much power and how it drives is far more important to me than 400bhp, that's a nice to have.julian64 said:
I also think overfuelling, while creating an artificial safety zone for antiknock also has its own problems with incomplete fuel burn, and deposit build up.
I can't comment on that, but surely the point to employing an expert is to benefit from their knowledge and to leave them to address such problems. There is universal agreement that there is scope to improve on the original map, so your comments must equally well apply to unmappped cars. julian64 said:
If I ever got my car mapped I would think it was my job to inspect the bores and piston head after a few thousand miles for signs of problems and return the car if the mapping didn't suit my driving style, irrespective of the pub bragging figure.
I think if you have your car mapped and then a few thousand miles later the engine is screwed the blame is split pretty evenly between mapper and owner.
I don't agree, you employ an expert to get things right. I expect the law would see it in this way too. Would you want your patients to self diagnose? ... more likely to cock it up than get it right I'd wager. To be strictly accurate and judge whether what a said expert has done one would need an independent inspection of the condition of the engine before and after mapping after some period of usage. I'd doubt this is practical for some of the components in the engine without a complete strip down though, so there's always a degree of trust involved. I think if you have your car mapped and then a few thousand miles later the engine is screwed the blame is split pretty evenly between mapper and owner.
julian64 said:
Recommending one indie instead of another when the problem is obviously integral to what you are asking to be done is misleading, at best.
Conjecture, we don't know what Mike asked to be done and we should probably avoid raking over this too much for all concerned. Edited by Steve_T on Monday 2nd March 09:56
We run the short TCS intakes on the race car and on my road car. Also have allways had these cars mapped by Joo at TCS aswell. Very good service imo.
Intresting how some peoples view on workmanship and honesty.....
Surely knowing you have someone elses engine parts in your car and being content with that would be rather dishonest and poor show also....??
Mike
Intresting how some peoples view on workmanship and honesty.....
Surely knowing you have someone elses engine parts in your car and being content with that would be rather dishonest and poor show also....??
Mike
I have to take issue with you steve.
You can't have a mapper reassuring you that you have more longevity on the one hand and more power on the other, especially when they don't know the state of your engine inside. Remember the perfect burn isn't the place on the graph with the biggest power.
As for naming and shaming rules. Posting how lean and how far the ignition was pushed. How long the engine survived and the nature of its demise doesn't have to focus on the mapper, just the mapped car.
I pretty much think it would be even either way. AJP's post is disingenuous because it give the impression there is a defined place to stop when mapping, and one of the mappers saw it and overstepped it on purpose, and I don't think thats the case with mapping.
Remember some of us can map at home, but haven't done so for the lack of experience reason.
You can't have a mapper reassuring you that you have more longevity on the one hand and more power on the other, especially when they don't know the state of your engine inside. Remember the perfect burn isn't the place on the graph with the biggest power.
As for naming and shaming rules. Posting how lean and how far the ignition was pushed. How long the engine survived and the nature of its demise doesn't have to focus on the mapper, just the mapped car.
I pretty much think it would be even either way. AJP's post is disingenuous because it give the impression there is a defined place to stop when mapping, and one of the mappers saw it and overstepped it on purpose, and I don't think thats the case with mapping.
Remember some of us can map at home, but haven't done so for the lack of experience reason
.julian64 said:
I have to take issue with you steve.
You can't have a mapper reassuring you that you have more longevity on the one hand and more power on the other, especially when they don't know the state of your engine inside. Remember the perfect burn isn't the place on the graph with the biggest power.
Agreed about the state of the engine, I made the same point re. objectively evaluating the result of mapping. However I also said that to me the point is to employ someone with more knowledge so they can make a judgement call. I agree that chasing after the absolute max is a risk however it is possible improve power with mapping without compromising the engines life severely, given the quality of the base map. I don't know how engine life alters with chasing after each final % until you reach the max you're going to get. When I eventually need my lump rebuilt (hopefully not for a very long time!) it would be very interesting to get some decent pics of its state as it's being stripped. Not a meaningful sample size but hopefully instructive, perhaps others could do the same?You can't have a mapper reassuring you that you have more longevity on the one hand and more power on the other, especially when they don't know the state of your engine inside. Remember the perfect burn isn't the place on the graph with the biggest power.
julian64 said:
As for naming and shaming rules. Posting how lean and how far the ignition was pushed. How long the engine survived and the nature of its demise doesn't have to focus on the mapper, just the mapped car.
Agreed, fair point. julian64 said:
I pretty much think it would be even either way. AJP's post is disingenuous because it give the impression there is a defined place to stop when mapping, and one of the mappers saw it and overstepped it on purpose, and I don't think thats the case with mapping.
It didn't read quite like that to me but I agree whatever has happened I doubt very much it was deliberate.julian64 said:
Remember some of us can map at home, but haven't done so for the lack of experience reason .
Not many of us in that boat I suspect, but I agree that could be an expensive and steep learning curve. .
The AJP Griff said:
First port of call for advice on short induction,mapping etc would be ACT.
Really???I remember my heady days of tuning and mapping and lost count of badly mapped cars and not from the guy you are unashamedly berating. I also remember the number of cars with rebuilds that required "rebuilding" as a result of poor workmanship, one of them being one of my old Cerbs, again as you would say, not wanting to name and shame but obvious where I am going.......
Anyone who thinks that mapping a car for more power will not accelerate wear and tear internally needs their head checking. What is already a relatively "weak" engine (in some cases) will be made worse, and if an already internally worn AJP goes in for remapping then there is a danger it will happen sooner rather than later. Are Mappers expected to rip open the engine prior to a remap???
Jules.
The AJP Griff said:
SL500 said:
Did you have the engine re-mapped when you fitted yours?
yes we did,it's pretty much essential if you fit the short induction,but if your just fitting the std length ACT ones then it's not necesary as theyre a direct replacement.If you need a re-map i would strongly recommend using Austec.Re mapped AJP's is a bit of a contentious issue at the moment,with at least a few people having suffered serious problems after having re-maps done by a certain 'specialist',and it would seem that there could be many more out there driving around with maps in thier car that are slowly but surely damaging thier engines.Having suffred very badly from the services of the same guy,i have talked to a few about it,and also,some naturally dont want to talk.Obviously your not allowed to say too much on a public forum under the name and shame rules,but i would advise to choose your re-map carefully.I'm only aware of Austec as the other company who can re-map these engines(or more correctly,the MBE ecu for them),but their might be others such as TVR Power,Str8six etc?First port of call for advice on short induction,mapping etc would be ACT.
This is silly talk.
This topic has come up in the past and has been levied in the opposite direction!
If there is a fundamental problem then it would be evident already on pistonheads.
There are many very happy customers. I cannot see any imperical evidence being found to support the accusation.
Thread lock?
This topic has come up in the past and has been levied in the opposite direction!
If there is a fundamental problem then it would be evident already on pistonheads.
There are many very happy customers. I cannot see any imperical evidence being found to support the accusation.
Thread lock?
In all fairness we are discussing an engine that most certainly did not have the 150,000 miles of certification and testing that a ford or chevy lump would have and most if not all of the engines being re-mapped are not new and are worn to a greater of lesser extent, especially as a consequence of the poor job TVR did originally.
So you take an engine will was never developed to the same levels every other production car lump is , you run it for 30,000 miles on a map that causes bore wash, misfires etc
You then re-map said engine re-tune it to a higher peak power at higher revs than it was running. Now if this map fixes the bore wash and misfires teh damage has already been done by the original map and as the fixed map allows the engine to rev more keenly and generate higher cylinder pressures this will increase the stress levels.
So bearing this in mind is it any wonder a few might go pop? And how is it the fault of the tuner? Whom I'm sure pointed all this out before the laptop was even plugged in.
So you take an engine will was never developed to the same levels every other production car lump is , you run it for 30,000 miles on a map that causes bore wash, misfires etc
You then re-map said engine re-tune it to a higher peak power at higher revs than it was running. Now if this map fixes the bore wash and misfires teh damage has already been done by the original map and as the fixed map allows the engine to rev more keenly and generate higher cylinder pressures this will increase the stress levels.
So bearing this in mind is it any wonder a few might go pop? And how is it the fault of the tuner? Whom I'm sure pointed all this out before the laptop was even plugged in.
I think you lot are all maybe missing the 'big picture'.
I think we are all aware its a stressed engine and might go pop etc etc.
When your engine does go pop, you have no evidence on which to blame anyone. UNLESS A RESPECTED MECHANIC HAS DONE A POST MORTEM AND TOLD YOU SO.
There is more to this story than simple disgruntled custmer with popped engine after mapping, and looking for someone to blame.
Its LIKELY TO BE disgruntled customers engine goes pop, takes it to a dealer/indie and they have told him why they think engine has gone pop.
Rightly or wrongly, and on whatever evidence someone has put the proverbial boot in.
Thats far more interesting from a learning point of view for us 'no nothing' wannabee's
I'm never interested in the politics but would love to have seen the postmortem.
I think we are all aware its a stressed engine and might go pop etc etc.
When your engine does go pop, you have no evidence on which to blame anyone. UNLESS A RESPECTED MECHANIC HAS DONE A POST MORTEM AND TOLD YOU SO.
There is more to this story than simple disgruntled custmer with popped engine after mapping, and looking for someone to blame.
Its LIKELY TO BE disgruntled customers engine goes pop, takes it to a dealer/indie and they have told him why they think engine has gone pop.
Rightly or wrongly, and on whatever evidence someone has put the proverbial boot in.
Thats far more interesting from a learning point of view for us 'no nothing' wannabee's
I'm never interested in the politics but would love to have seen the postmortem.
Edited by julian64 on Monday 2nd March 15:05
You will need a bit of remapping at low rpm with the shorter intakes but the results are good especially at terminal RPM, I used Dave Walker at emerald as I also moved to his ECU but TCS are also very experienced and a pleasure to deal with. Austek can't even be arsed to answer my emails or phone messages when I try to spend money with them so I can't comment and have as a result spent an awful lot of it elsewhere. I hope this does not count as naming and shaming as I have no comment on their technical skills as I have never managed to try them.
Thats my 2 cents.
Jon
Thats my 2 cents.
Jon
fatjon said:
You will need a bit of remapping at low rpm with the shorter intakes but the results are good especially at terminal RPM, I used Dave Walker at emerald as I also moved to his ECU but TCS are also very experienced and a pleasure to deal with. Austek can't even be arsed to answer my emails or phone messages when I try to spend money with them so I can't comment and have as a result spent an awful lot of it elsewhere. I hope this does not count as naming and shaming as I have no comment on their technical skills as I have never managed to try them.
Thats my 2 cents.
Jon
The Haynes engine management book i'm reading was written by Dave Walker, very good read - still a little over my head, but i'm slowly picking it all up.Thats my 2 cents.
Jon
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