McLaren struggling with the '09 car?
Discussion
For those who have been following the testing recently, does anyone else get the distinct impression that McLaren are having some fairly major issues? There's several things that suggest this, namely:
1) Still using the 08 rear wing for most of the testing, giving various "reasons" for not using the 09 package
2) When they put the current 09 wing on, they're slower
3) Using "flowviz" fluorescent paint during the tests to plot the air flow
4) Last but not least, generally languishing in the bottom half of the timesheets!
I know its only testing and you can never read too much into it, but they do seem to be doing some rather strange things which suggests to me they're hunting for fixes to some problems.
The only other thing I can think of is they're developing/constructing a big performance gain package thats perhaps different to anything seen on competitor's cars so they don't want to use it until the last minute, but at this fairly late stage it seems unlikely, as surely testing time with the car in roughly as-race spec is valuable too, especially with the in-season testing ban.
Anyone have any inside gossip?
cheers
Chris
1) Still using the 08 rear wing for most of the testing, giving various "reasons" for not using the 09 package
2) When they put the current 09 wing on, they're slower
3) Using "flowviz" fluorescent paint during the tests to plot the air flow
4) Last but not least, generally languishing in the bottom half of the timesheets!
I know its only testing and you can never read too much into it, but they do seem to be doing some rather strange things which suggests to me they're hunting for fixes to some problems.
The only other thing I can think of is they're developing/constructing a big performance gain package thats perhaps different to anything seen on competitor's cars so they don't want to use it until the last minute, but at this fairly late stage it seems unlikely, as surely testing time with the car in roughly as-race spec is valuable too, especially with the in-season testing ban.
Anyone have any inside gossip?
cheers
Chris
Edited by LocoBlade on Thursday 5th March 13:14
Perhaps they are testing various components and have the confidence in the car not to go for times.
Testing times are not a true guide to overall performance.
i remember when the Prost team was on it's last legs and in the final test they put in a stonking time to make it look like they were going to win everything, but when they turned up in Oz all that performance had dried up once there was any fuel load.
Testing times are not a true guide to overall performance.
i remember when the Prost team was on it's last legs and in the final test they put in a stonking time to make it look like they were going to win everything, but when they turned up in Oz all that performance had dried up once there was any fuel load.
Its not the times as such (as I said myself, its only testing), its what they're doing during the tests thats intruiging / confusing.
A 2008 wing is significantly lower and wider than a 2009 wing, so even if it can simulate similar downforce level, having an 08 design attached must affect the car aero in other ways. The entire upper body aero setup of a car is pretty much tuned to direct clean air at the rear wing elements, so if that wing sits in a completely different place in the airflow, I can't see how it will perform in exactly the same way as an 09 design. To me this hints that they've got significant rear end downforce issues and are frantically developing a revised package, so in the meantime the best they can do is run with an 08 wing to simulate roughly what they hope the new wing will generate.
A 2008 wing is significantly lower and wider than a 2009 wing, so even if it can simulate similar downforce level, having an 08 design attached must affect the car aero in other ways. The entire upper body aero setup of a car is pretty much tuned to direct clean air at the rear wing elements, so if that wing sits in a completely different place in the airflow, I can't see how it will perform in exactly the same way as an 09 design. To me this hints that they've got significant rear end downforce issues and are frantically developing a revised package, so in the meantime the best they can do is run with an 08 wing to simulate roughly what they hope the new wing will generate.
Edited by LocoBlade on Thursday 5th March 13:38
And Renault, who have been saying they might be leaving F1 and will certainly be looking for sponsors to replace ING were the quickest at Jerez.
I think the teams are looking ahead to the full season and seeing what happens if they do X to Y and what effect it has over last year visit. New tyres need full testing to see what they are like in different wear levels as well and what effects the wear.
I think the teams are looking ahead to the full season and seeing what happens if they do X to Y and what effect it has over last year visit. New tyres need full testing to see what they are like in different wear levels as well and what effects the wear.
Expanding on my "glass half full" theory above, the only positive explaination I can think of is that having seen the Williams / Toyota diffuser design which is a rather novel interpretation of the rules, McLaren are now busily developing their own version of that along with a complementing rear wing design, so until thats ready, they feel that a 2008 wing with launch spec 09 diffuser is better at simulating that expected performance gain than the launch spec 09 wing/diffuser combo.
LocoBlade said:
Expanding on my "glass half full" theory above, the only positive explaination I can think of is that having seen the Williams / Toyota diffuser design which is a rather novel interpretation of the rules, McLaren are now busily developing their own version of that along with a complementing rear wing design, so until thats ready, they feel that a 2008 wing with launch spec 09 diffuser is better at simulating that expected performance gain than the launch spec 09 wing/diffuser combo.
That's what i am thinking/hoping they are doing, although it is a bit of a worry.Rude-boy said:
LocoBlade said:
Expanding on my "glass half full" theory above, the only positive explaination I can think of is that having seen the Williams / Toyota diffuser design which is a rather novel interpretation of the rules, McLaren are now busily developing their own version of that along with a complementing rear wing design, so until thats ready, they feel that a 2008 wing with launch spec 09 diffuser is better at simulating that expected performance gain than the launch spec 09 wing/diffuser combo.
That's what i am thinking/hoping they are doing, although it is a bit of a worry.
My theory is that they have a had a look at the way in which Toyota & Williams interpreted the rear wing/diffuser regs & have realised that this seems to be allowed. They have then re-evaulted the regs the Toyota/Williams way & come up with a solution that's sufficiently differnt to the other 2 that they want to keep it very quiet for now.
I suspect they've got almost 2008 levels of rear aero & that's why the old wing is still there.
I also suspect that when Max sees it he'll have a coronary. Let's hope it won't stop him form hitting the ladies for too long eh?
I suspect they've got almost 2008 levels of rear aero & that's why the old wing is still there.
I also suspect that when Max sees it he'll have a coronary. Let's hope it won't stop him form hitting the ladies for too long eh?
It suprises me that they are still using the 2009 rear wing, given how close we are to the start of the season and also how little testing is going to take place under the new rules.
It is also suprising how they are languishing down the timesheets, the Force India has been faster straight out of the box.
McLaren have had their problems, lets not forget 2004-2006 where there were major issues in the team with reliability especially, and this seems apparant again. In Jerez this week they have blown a few engines, on Wednesday Hamilton managed 7 laps before his Mercedes unit burst into flames.
They will probably be there or thereabouts in Australia...BUT there is the underlying concern that they havent go this package dialled down yet.
It is also suprising how they are languishing down the timesheets, the Force India has been faster straight out of the box.
McLaren have had their problems, lets not forget 2004-2006 where there were major issues in the team with reliability especially, and this seems apparant again. In Jerez this week they have blown a few engines, on Wednesday Hamilton managed 7 laps before his Mercedes unit burst into flames.
They will probably be there or thereabouts in Australia...BUT there is the underlying concern that they havent go this package dialled down yet.
Sounds like they are pushing the cooling Aero design to the limit to find an advantage, the engines themselves will be bullet proof under the new regs if kept cool.
Wouldn't surprise me if they are working on an Aero package that creates a lot of dirty air behind the car without upsetting the aero efficiency and cooling of their car to a detrimental level, thats what i would try and achieve with these new regs.
Wouldn't surprise me if they are working on an Aero package that creates a lot of dirty air behind the car without upsetting the aero efficiency and cooling of their car to a detrimental level, thats what i would try and achieve with these new regs.
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