F1 Points - About Bl**dy time

[jellison]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73562

Thanks Christ the 10 for first and 8 for second has been bloody stupid since it was introduced (to artifically keep the championship drawn out till the end of the year). This just made people settle for second rather than attacking fro the win.

---

The Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) has called for an immediate change to the world championship's points system.

Under proposals announced by FOTA at its press conference in Geneva today, the points for a race win would rise from 10 to 12, with nine points for second and seven for third.

Positions four to eight would continue to score in the current 5-4-3-2-1 manner.

McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh said the move was required because feedback from FOTA's global audience survey asked for a greater gap between the points for first and second places to encourage drivers not to settle for points finishes rather than wins.

"Audiences desire greater championship recognition for race winners and our proposal is to offer greater rewards for the race winner," said Whitmarsh.

The proposal is an alternative to Bernie Ecclestone's demands for a medals system for the top three finishers.

The other immediate change to the sporting regulations that FOTA is proposing is to make each car's starting fuel load public before the race to make the grands prix easier to understand.

The recommendations must be approved by the FIA's World Motor Sport Council before they can be adopted for 2009.

"These proposals will be submitted to the FIA WMSC and we seek their support in their endorsement," Whitmarsh said.

FOTA has also suggested that for 2010 more performance data is revealed to audiences, constructors' championship points are awarded for the fastest pitstops at each event, and race lengths are reduced to 250 kilometres or a maximum duration of one hour and 40 minutes.

But the body has not made any proposals for the future shape of qualifying yet, with no changes expected to the format until at least 2010.

"While the audience surveys had no strong opinions on qualifying, FOTA wish to review the qualifying format to enhance the spectacle," said Whitmarsh.

[LocoBlade]

Nothing has changed yet, its only the team association's proposals. If Bernie or Max doesn't like them, they won't happen.

[jellison]

LocoBlade said:

Nothing has changed yet, its only the team association's proposals. If Bernie or Max doesn't like them, they won't happen.

Bugger - this is 10x better than the half arse sh&t about medals Bernie was banging on about. There really HAS to more at least one more point between 1st and 2nd.

Oh on the "FOTA has also suggested that for 2010 more performance data is revealed to audiences, constructors' championship points are awarded for the fastest pitstops at each event, and race lengths are reduced to 250 kilometres or a maximum duration of one hour and 40 minutes.

But the body has not made any proposals for the future shape of qualifying yet, with no changes expected to the format until at least 2010."

Yep I'm for a a bit shorter races. Christ they can be Dull.

At least refuelling is going - thank god (nothing to do with the drivers ability). Points for fastest pitstop - bks - pitstop have bugger all to do with racing - fill it up and race to the bloody end, end of.

Edited by jellison on Thursday 5th March 16:05

[Derek Smith]

Fuller details:

Technical

2009:

Just eight engines per driver per season. That's a reduction of 50%.
Reduction in wind tunnel and computational fluid dynamics usage.
Engine available at €8 million per team per season.


2010:

Engine at €5 million, gearbox €1.
Standardised KERS, target €1-2 million per team per season.
Further 50% reduction on 2009 aerodynamic development spend.
Specified number of chassis, bodywork and aerodynamic development homologations during the season.
Prohibition of certain expensive materials.
Standardised telemetry and radio systems

Sporting

2009:

Testing reduction (50%)
New points-scoring system 12-9-7-5-4-3-2-1.
Race starting fuel loads, tyre specifications and refuelling data to be made public

2010:

New qualifying format
Radical new points-scoring opportunities. (The suggestion for one constructors’ championship point to be awarded for the fastest race pit stop will hopefully be binned.)
Further testing reductions.
Shorter races.

Commercial

2009:

Increased data provision for media
Explore presentation methods.

2010:

Bigger improvements of the same.

Further details on PitPass.

I can't see Mosley being able to argue against the proposals. Bernie might spout off a bit but given the financial situation he'll have to fall in line.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

They should introduce other points as well.

1 point for leading a lap of race.

1 point for fastest lap

1 point for Pole position.

Works well in the Touring Car Series.

[jellison]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

They should introduce other points as well.

1 point for leading a lap of race. Maybe

1 point for fastest lap - YES

1 point for Pole position. - Maybe, but I'd say NO.

Works well in the Touring Car Series.

[Teppic]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

They should introduce other points as well.

1 point for leading a lap of race. Maybe, but only if there are compulsory pit stops when the re-fuelling ban comes in to force in 2010

1 point for fastest lap - Maybe, but edging towards No. Drivers may be tempted to pit in the final five laps of the race to bolt on a set of frsh tyres to go for a faster time. Fine in theory, but what if over 50% of them do it? Also, what if we have a season where one team produces a car that is significantly faster than anything else on the grid?

1 point for Pole position. Another maybe - It might work if they re-introduced one-by-one qualifying (from 2003?) so that you only have one chance to get your hot lap right. Otherwise you'll be in a situation where maybe drivers from only the top two teams would be capable of scoring the point (unless it rained)

[rev-erend]

Sounds like a good idea .. hope it gets adopted.

Like like racing .. anything that encourages that is good in my book.

[freedman]

Should have stayed with 9-6-4-3-2-1 with only the top six scoring

Add an extra point for pole and fastest lap and youre there, unless you extend the gap between 1st and second even more

[german tony]

I love the idea of getting the teams to blow loads on KERS & then deciding to have 1 fixed system as of next year. That'll really have saved money.

Ok, that wasn't the point of KERS though was it? It was about allowing the teams & their owners to show off their technical expertise in making motor racing green & thus road cars wasn't it?

So how does that fit with a standardised system?

It's an admission that the entire idea was & is utter cack that's what it is.

That's just the sort of totally amateur cock up that should stop Mosely from being re-elected & if it wasn't for the fact that getting caught spanking the crap out of cheap wes in a filthy, sordid basement wasn't worse & he still survived he wouldn't be re-elected.

As it is he'll probably romp home.

[flemke]

jellison said:

Thanks Christ the 10 for first and 8 for second has been bloody stupid since it was introduced (to artifically keep the championship drawn out till the end of the year)

What makes it "artificial"? You may object to it, but the present scoring system is just as real as any other. There is no natural law for when a championship should be decided.

[Derek Smith]

german tony said:

I love the idea of getting the teams to blow loads on KERS & then deciding to have 1 fixed system as of next year. That'll really have saved money.

It is remarkable, isn't it, how such a stupidly expensive idea such as KERS should have been introduced at a time of cost cutting. Stupid is much too small a word to describe it.

I wonder if there is an agreement amongst the FOTA members with regards to this year's KERS.

[Derek Smith]

flemke said:

jellison said:

Thanks Christ the 10 for first and 8 for second has been bloody stupid since it was introduced (to artifically keep the championship drawn out till the end of the year)

What makes it "artificial"? You may object to it, but the present scoring system is just as real as any other. There is no natural law for when a championship should be decided.

Indeed. The only genuine way is to have each race as an entity in itself and do away with the WDC. That is, after all, the way it was done pre-war. The whole WDC thing is artificial but it makes it esciting for the hoi poloi and, I have to say, it has made it exciting for me when it has, as it has so often in the past, come down to the last race, and for 2008 the last complex of corners. I actually jumped up as LH moved into 5th and yelled out: That's, that's . . . him. as I couldn't remember the name Gloch. And I'm not a particular fan of LH. So it got me very excited. And, I assume, but for other reasons, those who wanted Massa to win were also on the edge of their seat.

But, as Flemke says, the WDC is aritifical however it is organised. Further, and from the vantage point of some 40+ years of following F1 as something of a nerd, victory in any race or series is artificial and ephemeral. It is, after all, just a race series.

[ian_c_uk]

freedman said:

Should have stayed with 9-6-4-3-2-1 with only the top six scoring

Would there be any point in the lower teams running with that proposal? I think points should work backwards myself, 1 point for last (hey, you finished!) and counting up to the first place, with a bonus +3pts for win, +2pt for second, +1pt for third.

The lower teams need something to aim for, reliability \ keeping it on the track should be rewarded, and winning a race with only 6 cars in it should not gain the same points as beating 20 cars.

[SlimJ]

Point for fastest pitstop? Thats just ridiculous, drivers would be coming into do the quickest splash and dash possible.

Points should be 12,8,6,5,4,3,2,1. IMO.

[jellison]

Derek Smith said:

flemke said:

jellison said:

Thanks Christ the 10 for first and 8 for second has been bloody stupid since it was introduced (to artifically keep the championship drawn out till the end of the year)

What makes it "artificial"? You may object to it, but the present scoring system is just as real as any other. There is no natural law for when a championship should be decided.

Indeed. The only genuine way is to have each race as an entity in itself and do away with the WDC. That is, after all, the way it was done pre-war. The whole WDC thing is artificial but it makes it esciting for the hoi poloi and, I have to say, it has made it exciting for me when it has, as it has so often in the past, come down to the last race, and for 2008 the last complex of corners. I actually jumped up as LH moved into 5th and yelled out: That's, that's . . . him. as I couldn't remember the name Gloch. And I'm not a particular fan of LH. So it got me very excited. And, I assume, but for other reasons, those who wanted Massa to win were also on the edge of their seat.

But, as Flemke says, the WDC is aritifical however it is organised. Further, and from the vantage point of some 40+ years of following F1 as something of a nerd, victory in any race or series is artificial and ephemeral. It is, after all, just a race series.

Are you smoking some special stuff?

[motormania]

SlimJ said:

Point for fastest pitstop? Thats just ridiculous, drivers would be coming into do the quickest splash and dash possible.

Points should be 12,8,6,5,4,3,2,1. IMO.

It is not ridiculous at all...

This would be introduced only once refueling is banned in 2010. We will then get back to the days when Senna would come in for a tyre change and the team would turn him around in a sub 4 sec time - stunning to watch.

[flemke]

motormania said:

SlimJ said:

Point for fastest pitstop? Thats just ridiculous, drivers would be coming into do the quickest splash and dash possible.

Points should be 12,8,6,5,4,3,2,1. IMO.

It is not ridiculous at all...

This would be introduced only once refueling is banned in 2010. We will then get back to the days when Senna would come in for a tyre change and the team would turn him around in a sub 4 sec time - stunning to watch.

Except that, in order to shave off that last 0.001 sec and maximise likelihood of the pitstop point, people will go OTT and take stupid chances.
Yes, they try to do the stops quickly now, but 98% of the time the driver's track position will not be influenced by shaving off the last millisecond, so the crews don't do stupid things. A pitstop point would be an incentive, indeed a reward, for doing that stupid thing.
And why? Who cares? If you want to have a pitstop competition (which in fact they do have in many series), then do it outside of the race itself, not during it.

[Teppic]

SlimJ said:

Point for fastest pitstop? Thats just ridiculous, drivers would be coming into do the quickest splash and dash possible.

Points should be 12,8,6,5,4,3,2,1. IMO.

If anything I would like the points to go down to 10th place, and allocated as 20-15-10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

[RichB]

Teppic said:

SlimJ said:

Point for fastest pitstop? Thats just ridiculous, drivers would be coming into do the quickest splash and dash possible.

Points should be 12,8,6,5,4,3,2,1. IMO.

If anything I would like the points to go down to 10th place, and allocated as 20-15-10-7-6-5-4-3-2-1

Oh that's daft because the gap between 1st 2nd and 3rd is equal. I suggest points for the first 11 places (why does it have to be 10 or 12) and say 21, 17, 14, 11, 9, 7, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. - I like odd numbers

Edited by RichB on Friday 6th March 16:14