Fines at roadside for those who cannot prove their address..
Discussion
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/art...
Whilst I welcome the idea of on the spot fines for foreign drivers, I cannot help but object to the proposal to make British drivers pay a "deposit" if we cannot prove our address/identity, having been stopped by the police.
In some respects, there is obviously a problem with a non law abiding minority who flout the system in these instances. A minority none the less.
I dislike the suggestion that I may have to pay £300 "deposit" on the say so of a policeman, whose opinion has not yet been tested in a court of law. I just hope that my fears are unfounded and there are some checks and balances built into this.
Sadly, past experience suggests this will not be the case.
There are many drivers on the road who have absolutely no way of paying such a sum, on the spot, under any circumstances. This seems a little unfair on such people.
The logistics don't sound great either.....how long will Bib be standing by the roadside waiting for a clamper/removal man? Longer than they would like, I am positive.
In conclusion, I'm not really sure where I stand on this one.....
Whilst I welcome the idea of on the spot fines for foreign drivers, I cannot help but object to the proposal to make British drivers pay a "deposit" if we cannot prove our address/identity, having been stopped by the police.
In some respects, there is obviously a problem with a non law abiding minority who flout the system in these instances. A minority none the less.
I dislike the suggestion that I may have to pay £300 "deposit" on the say so of a policeman, whose opinion has not yet been tested in a court of law. I just hope that my fears are unfounded and there are some checks and balances built into this.
Sadly, past experience suggests this will not be the case.
There are many drivers on the road who have absolutely no way of paying such a sum, on the spot, under any circumstances. This seems a little unfair on such people.
The logistics don't sound great either.....how long will Bib be standing by the roadside waiting for a clamper/removal man? Longer than they would like, I am positive.
In conclusion, I'm not really sure where I stand on this one.....
Martial Arts Man said:
I dislike the suggestion that I may have to pay £300 "deposit" on the say so of a policeman, whose opinion has not yet been tested in a court of law.
Police State and we let them get away with it simple. If this was in another part of Europe the protests would be ugly.Martial Arts Man said:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/art...
Whilst I welcome the idea of on the spot fines for foreign drivers, I cannot help but object to the proposal to make British drivers pay a "deposit" if we cannot prove our address/identity, having been stopped by the police.
I just hope that my fears are unfounded and there are some checks and balances built into this.
Sadly, past experience suggests this will not be the case.
The logistics don't sound great either.....how long will Bib be standing by the roadside waiting for a clamper/removal man? Longer than they would like, I am positive.
You must have had some extensive experience to be able to speak about your past experience in such expansive terms - you get stopped often?Whilst I welcome the idea of on the spot fines for foreign drivers, I cannot help but object to the proposal to make British drivers pay a "deposit" if we cannot prove our address/identity, having been stopped by the police.
I just hope that my fears are unfounded and there are some checks and balances built into this.
Sadly, past experience suggests this will not be the case.
The logistics don't sound great either.....how long will Bib be standing by the roadside waiting for a clamper/removal man? Longer than they would like, I am positive.
This change (if enforced) won't make any difference to 95% of law abiding British motorists - how many different ways are there to prove you live at the address you provide? Lets list a view that between you and the BiB that stops you you'll have access to:
1. Driving licence (which common sense says you should have with you.)
2. Cars insured at your address
3. You're registered to vote at your address
4. Any utility bill
The list could continue, but thats the obvious ones for now - I'm too tired to make an exhaustive list.
Its a fact that at the roadside alot of people give duff details, and that means that a lot of people are getting away with it. This means that a) more s
t drivers on the road which leads to b) more accidents, combined with c) more uninsured drivers on the road means that guess what? Your insurance premium gets elevated to the level it is at now. Get rid of a decent chunk of those people and over time there'll be a dip in premiums.Not an overnight benefit granted, but if it works and the numbers of people who give dodgy details (or fail to produce) when stopped is as high as is suggested (and I've got good reason to believe it is) this could end up being a pretty big improvement.
Whats the negatives:
Law abiding motorists need to have something that proves that they are who they say they are. I'm a normal person and I've always got my driving licence, so not an issue for me. Its quite unusual to come across someone in a car who can't prove that they are who they say they are - bank cards and a check of the voters register can sort those who don't have their licence for whatever reason.
As for clampers...currently BiB seize cars for no insurance/driving otherwise than in accordance, and I know my local force has a contract with a recovery company that has to provide a unit within x amount of time (think its 45 minutes) so theres no reason that clampers couldn't work the same way. And if you've seen the amount of paperwork that BiB have to fill out for someone who didn't produce their docs, its not as big a difference as you'd think. Once people are used to the new system that'll all drop anyway, as people will make sure they can prove they are who they say they are - much as over time young people have learned to take out proof of age when they're out on the piss.
I guess I'm not the sort to assume extra powers to the police is always a bad thing though.
V8A*ndy said:
Police State and we let them get away with it simple. If this was in another part of Europe the protests would be ugly.
In France you already have to pay an on the spot fine... and it certainly isn't refundable if yo udo choose to have your day in court.I think the reason behind this is...
"The fines will be described officially as “deposits” when introduced on April 1 because the money would be refunded if the driver went to court[b] and was found not guilty. [b]In practice, very few foreign drivers are likely to return to Britain to contest their cases." Money for nothing then! At least this stealth tax is hitting Jonny foreigner!
No, but it's common sense, even for a non-motoring purpose. Ever had to prove your I.D. to collect a parcel form the sorting office?
I have no objection to this at all and am surprised that anyone who has nothing to hide would object either. If you've already been stopped what's theproblem of showing them your licence? It could save you a trip to the station for a "producer"
I have no objection to this at all and am surprised that anyone who has nothing to hide would object either. If you've already been stopped what's theproblem of showing them your licence? It could save you a trip to the station for a "producer"
I see one flaw in this relating to myself already......
Before I left i asked the DVLA about this, thier response was that they cannot put a foreign address on the license, so just leave it at my last address. This is legal and the only solution that they can give. My uk license is still considered valid by the DVLA but i would not be able to prove a valid UK address!!
Times Online said:
The law will also apply to British residents who cannot prove at the roadside that they have a valid address in Britain.
I hold a valid British Drivers license, but i do not posess a valid British address (as i live oversees and do not own a property in the UK.) Before I left i asked the DVLA about this, thier response was that they cannot put a foreign address on the license, so just leave it at my last address. This is legal and the only solution that they can give. My uk license is still considered valid by the DVLA but i would not be able to prove a valid UK address!!
given that most people are unlikely to have £300 in their wallets, with or without their driving licences, plus other id we all generally carry around in our wallets, such as bank statemets, council tax bills ec... are we to assume that we would then be escorted to the nearest cashpoint, say if on Motorway, next services which may be past the junction we are going to take off, or into a town, or will we be 'treatd' to the BiB pulling out a card machine being asked to check the amount, press yes if we agree and then entering our pin (maybe being asked if we wanted to add a gratuity?)
It's not dissimilar to the law in France at the moment, although I'm not sure that they have the 'facility' to randomly fine anyone who doesn't instantly identify themselves.
Once again, this smacks of 'project creep'. Whilst I applaud the moves made to tackle poor driving from foreign drivers, our Government have taken it too far and are guilty of writing poor laws that are wide open to abuse.
Once again, this smacks of 'project creep'. Whilst I applaud the moves made to tackle poor driving from foreign drivers, our Government have taken it too far and are guilty of writing poor laws that are wide open to abuse.
XJSJohn said:
I see one flaw in this relating to myself already......
Before I left i asked the DVLA about this, thier response was that they cannot put a foreign address on the license, so just leave it at my last address. This is legal and the only solution that they can give. My uk license is still considered valid by the DVLA but i would not be able to prove a valid UK address!!
Well, if they accept a UK driving license as proof of ID and proof of address then you can prove you have a UK address. It's just not one they'll ever find you at!Times Online said:
The law will also apply to British residents who cannot prove at the roadside that they have a valid address in Britain.
I hold a valid British Drivers license, but i do not posess a valid British address (as i live oversees and do not own a property in the UK.) Before I left i asked the DVLA about this, thier response was that they cannot put a foreign address on the license, so just leave it at my last address. This is legal and the only solution that they can give. My uk license is still considered valid by the DVLA but i would not be able to prove a valid UK address!!
Technically though wouldn't you fall into the Johnny Foreigner category - ie no UK address means a fine rather than a "deposit". Seems fair really - you've said you don't have a UK address, so they wouldn't be able to server a penalty on you later.
V8A*ndy said:
Martial Arts Man said:
I dislike the suggestion that I may have to pay £300 "deposit" on the say so of a policeman, whose opinion has not yet been tested in a court of law.
Police State and we let them get away with it simple. If this was in another part of Europe the protests would be ugly.This is obviously a law to make sure you carry the ID card.
They dress it up as targeting foreign drivers but weave in a clause that silently affects all UK citizens. When the story goes to press the really important part hardly gets a mention because this government is a master of hiding the bitter pill in a bowl of tasty treats.
They dress it up as targeting foreign drivers but weave in a clause that silently affects all UK citizens. When the story goes to press the really important part hardly gets a mention because this government is a master of hiding the bitter pill in a bowl of tasty treats.
XJSJohn said:
I see one flaw in this relating to myself already......
Before I left i asked the DVLA about this, thier response was that they cannot put a foreign address on the license, so just leave it at my last address. This is legal and the only solution that they can give. My uk license is still considered valid by the DVLA but i would not be able to prove a valid UK address!!
Are you not expected to exchange your UK driving licence for one from the country that you now reside in? Typically that process involves sending off your old licence and the new licencing authority sends it back to the DVLA.Times Online said:
The law will also apply to British residents who cannot prove at the roadside that they have a valid address in Britain.
I hold a valid British Drivers license, but i do not posess a valid British address (as i live oversees and do not own a property in the UK.) Before I left i asked the DVLA about this, thier response was that they cannot put a foreign address on the license, so just leave it at my last address. This is legal and the only solution that they can give. My uk license is still considered valid by the DVLA but i would not be able to prove a valid UK address!!
This was certainly the case when my gf moved from NZ to UK, it was simply exchanged. If she goes back, she gives up the UK one and gets a NZ one again.
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