Discussion
Is there a large/noticeable difference in the performance and usability between a standard s2 and the 111s? Does the 111s make the base car feel slow, and is it worth continuing to save for the higher spec car?
I really need to go and have a drive in both to decide, but would like to hear what everyone else thinks.
I really need to go and have a drive in both to decide, but would like to hear what everyone else thinks.
That is pretty much what I had been thinking, which mean no elise for a while as I can only just afford a standard s2 at the moment!
Also does anyone think a standard early s2 is likely to become the unloved elise, not as raw or light as a s1, no faster and without the power, kit and mods of a later s2?
Also does anyone think a standard early s2 is likely to become the unloved elise, not as raw or light as a s1, no faster and without the power, kit and mods of a later s2?
Edited by cjm on Thursday 12th March 10:42
not really - they are all "loved" for different reasons ....you can argue the pros/cons of each model all day long...we all do 
to be honest most of the differences are not *that* huge anyway between models, unless you are talking extremes of course like 120bhp to a Sport 190 ...or early S1 to recent Elise SC (big difference)
and any model can be made as powerful as another, or look like another, aftermarket - if you so wish you can turn an early S1 into a late S2 with Honda in it ...everything is possible
so dont worry too much about options, seats, 15bhp here or there - it can all be done later as your Elise habit develops and your wallet gets bigger
to be honest most of the differences are not *that* huge anyway between models, unless you are talking extremes of course like 120bhp to a Sport 190 ...or early S1 to recent Elise SC (big difference)
and any model can be made as powerful as another, or look like another, aftermarket - if you so wish you can turn an early S1 into a late S2 with Honda in it ...everything is possible
so dont worry too much about options, seats, 15bhp here or there - it can all be done later as your Elise habit develops and your wallet gets bigger
cjm said:
I might have lots of ideas about building my perfect elise but as my only car I know I would just enjoy driving it and never get round to the big mods, would always have other things to spend money on. So really need to buy the car(bhp) I want or need to start with.
well, if that was me, id be saving for a 400bhp Honda Engine Elise as thats what I know I need /seriously, just get a 111S
Capo said:
Buy A toyota/honda/audi/duratec one. Stay away from the K-serie crap.
To long stretch bolts (50cm) from steel with a alu engine and oil ladder. That are already 2 facts that makes it unreliable.
Ok, do you have a spare £10k I can have?! To long stretch bolts (50cm) from steel with a alu engine and oil ladder. That are already 2 facts that makes it unreliable.
I don't mind the K-series, how many hundreds of thousands of rovers, mgs and land rovers are running around without any problems?
Edited by cjm on Thursday 12th March 15:21
I was a little bit short on words, let me explain
I do believe in the K-series. I do believe it's a very reliable engine.
Driving a S2 135R and when the engine is warmed up properly ( waiting till 90 degrees and then 20 miles for the oil before i pass the 3000rpm ) i love to rev it, and the sound.. awesome.
However i only believe that if you rebuild the engine and know what is done.
The problem is that if you have HGF symptons and you open the engine you don't know what kinda can of worms you are opening.
Firering area, linerheights, soft head, crack in oil line near dowel, etc. etc.
So be prepared that if the HGF goes (what i believe isn't really the HG) that a complete rebuild of the engine is needed. That costs money as well.
So a simple toyota with 136hp might be just fine or even better. Maybe little bit more boring but more reliable. The money you spend on buying a toyota version is also the money it costs to rebuild a K-series.
If i would rebuild a K-series engine i would definitly ditch the std. stretch bolts and get some ARP studs and bolts. HG isn't failing in my believe, the head movement is the issue. Problem is the very long bolts in combination with the difference of materials used ( alu oil ladder, etc. and steel very long stretch bolts )
That the head is moving can be proven by the plastic dowels that break
I'm thinking what i'm going to do. Rebuild the K or swap it with a Duratec or Honda.
I do believe in the K-series. I do believe it's a very reliable engine.
Driving a S2 135R and when the engine is warmed up properly ( waiting till 90 degrees and then 20 miles for the oil before i pass the 3000rpm ) i love to rev it, and the sound.. awesome.
However i only believe that if you rebuild the engine and know what is done.
The problem is that if you have HGF symptons and you open the engine you don't know what kinda can of worms you are opening.
Firering area, linerheights, soft head, crack in oil line near dowel, etc. etc.
So be prepared that if the HGF goes (what i believe isn't really the HG) that a complete rebuild of the engine is needed. That costs money as well.
So a simple toyota with 136hp might be just fine or even better. Maybe little bit more boring but more reliable. The money you spend on buying a toyota version is also the money it costs to rebuild a K-series.
If i would rebuild a K-series engine i would definitly ditch the std. stretch bolts and get some ARP studs and bolts. HG isn't failing in my believe, the head movement is the issue. Problem is the very long bolts in combination with the difference of materials used ( alu oil ladder, etc. and steel very long stretch bolts )
That the head is moving can be proven by the plastic dowels that break
I'm thinking what i'm going to do. Rebuild the K or swap it with a Duratec or Honda.
Edited by Capo on Thursday 12th March 20:43
Having owned both a standard 120bhp S2 and a S2 111S.
Std S2 feels quicker 111S is quicker, the longer ratios on the 111S and the revvy nature of the engine make it feel sluggish, reality is you are not. After my first S2 sold to fund my Wedding (Don't ask!) I knew I wanted an 111S and fit a CRB end result the best of both worlds.
I have found the 111S far more reliable than my old standard S2 perhaps because of the development within the year time frame.
Std S2 feels quicker 111S is quicker, the longer ratios on the 111S and the revvy nature of the engine make it feel sluggish, reality is you are not. After my first S2 sold to fund my Wedding (Don't ask!) I knew I wanted an 111S and fit a CRB end result the best of both worlds.
I have found the 111S far more reliable than my old standard S2 perhaps because of the development within the year time frame.
cjm said:
Thanks Matt, just the sort of thing I was looking for. Did you think your standard s2 feel slow or was it fast enough, just not as quick as a 111s?
Are there in gear time listed anywhere for the different models, s1 and s2?
I love the 120bhp S2 it is brilliant, so easy to drive you can lob it around but I feel vunerable when overtaking it lacks the grunt of the 111S in a straight line and isnt that fast, the Close Ratio Box makes it feel quicker than it actually is IMHO. You will be wanting more, which can be acheived by Headwork and Cams. I just find leaving the K series head standard helps reliabilty hence why I went for a standard 160bhp engine.Are there in gear time listed anywhere for the different models, s1 and s2?
With the close ratio box I much prefer the driveability of the standard S2 over the 111S.
Not many magazines figured the 111S but Julian Bailey drove several Elise models for an article in Top Gear magazine and the standard S2 actually lapped faster than the 111S. In the Brooklands Gold Portfolio (road test reprints) Lotus Elise and Exige book, the lardy S2 111S's 0-100 time is actually identical to Autocar's time for the standard S2 and a fair bit down on Lotus' claims.
Not many magazines figured the 111S but Julian Bailey drove several Elise models for an article in Top Gear magazine and the standard S2 actually lapped faster than the 111S. In the Brooklands Gold Portfolio (road test reprints) Lotus Elise and Exige book, the lardy S2 111S's 0-100 time is actually identical to Autocar's time for the standard S2 and a fair bit down on Lotus' claims.
VTECMatt said:
cjm said:
Thanks Matt, just the sort of thing I was looking for. Did you think your standard s2 feel slow or was it fast enough, just not as quick as a 111s?
Are there in gear time listed anywhere for the different models, s1 and s2?
I love the 120bhp S2 it is brilliant, so easy to drive you can lob it around but I feel vunerable when overtaking it lacks the grunt of the 111S in a straight line and isnt that fast, the Close Ratio Box makes it feel quicker than it actually is IMHO. You will be wanting more, which can be acheived by Headwork and Cams. I just find leaving the K series head standard helps reliabilty hence why I went for a standard 160bhp engine.Are there in gear time listed anywhere for the different models, s1 and s2?
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