Exhaust......... LEGAL or NOT
Discussion
Have read quite a few threads over time, about sleeving the cans on a Tuscan or fitting CCC Cans and also decatting of a TVR, but I have never been really sure if the Sleeving/CCC is actually road legal? I thought if a motorbike has the baffles removed, that could get you in trouble.
Is there a legal noise level limit? for cars?
I'm again guessing that a de cat is not legal?
Just want to know where I stand incase BiB have a word,
(CC on order)
Thanks
Mr Naive
Is there a legal noise level limit? for cars?
I'm again guessing that a de cat is not legal?
Just want to know where I stand incase BiB have a word,
(CC on order)
Thanks
Mr Naive
As I understand it there are no laws regarding the specific noise output of car exhausts. They can be covered by Section 59 if they are deemed to be a nuisance but you can't fail an MoT test on noise. You can fail an MoT test on emissions. Given the levels allowed by post '92 cars are generally only achievable by having catalytic converters, de-catting is likely to see you failing on the ramps. That said, there is nothing illegal about having a decatted car registered post '92 emissions laws, however if you are subjected to a roadside (VOSA presumably) emissions cheack and you fail you're in trouble.
dougc said:
As I understand it there are no laws regarding the specific noise output of car exhausts. They can be covered by Section 59 if they are deemed to be a nuisance but you can't fail an MoT test on noise. You can fail an MoT test on emissions. Given the levels allowed by post '92 cars are generally only achievable by having catalytic converters, de-catting is likely to see you failing on the ramps. That said, there is nothing illegal about having a decatted car registered post '92 emissions laws, however if you are subjected to a roadside (VOSA presumably) emissions cheack and you fail you're in trouble.
Umm you can fail an MOT on noise...... it's at the discretion of the tester. When I had my v loud exhaust I was asked if it was standard, I replied yes... tester said "ok, I I've never heard another TVR so it will pass".
Hoover. said:
dougc said:
As I understand it there are no laws regarding the specific noise output of car exhausts. They can be covered by Section 59 if they are deemed to be a nuisance but you can't fail an MoT test on noise. You can fail an MoT test on emissions. Given the levels allowed by post '92 cars are generally only achievable by having catalytic converters, de-catting is likely to see you failing on the ramps. That said, there is nothing illegal about having a decatted car registered post '92 emissions laws, however if you are subjected to a roadside (VOSA presumably) emissions cheack and you fail you're in trouble.
Umm you can fail an MOT on noise...... it's at the discretion of the tester. When I had my v loud exhaust I was asked if it was standard, I replied yes... tester said "ok, I I've never heard another TVR so it will pass".
Anything thus modified thus technically is a fail. Whether or not the MOT tester has his eyes open at the time of the test is another matter.
N.
heightswitch said:
Hoover. said:
dougc said:
As I understand it there are no laws regarding the specific noise output of car exhausts. They can be covered by Section 59 if they are deemed to be a nuisance but you can't fail an MoT test on noise. You can fail an MoT test on emissions. Given the levels allowed by post '92 cars are generally only achievable by having catalytic converters, de-catting is likely to see you failing on the ramps. That said, there is nothing illegal about having a decatted car registered post '92 emissions laws, however if you are subjected to a roadside (VOSA presumably) emissions cheack and you fail you're in trouble.
Umm you can fail an MOT on noise...... it's at the discretion of the tester. When I had my v loud exhaust I was asked if it was standard, I replied yes... tester said "ok, I I've never heard another TVR so it will pass".
Anything thus modified thus technically is a fail. Whether or not the MOT tester has his eyes open at the time of the test is another matter.
N.
TVR_owner said:
Difficult to see on a car - easier on a bike where the exhaust carries either the makers mark or an EU tag thingy...(the later you can buy and fit for only a few pounds)
I took my bike in for MOT and it failed on its race can, bought said tag of ebay for £5, polished off the "Not for road use" on the can and riveted the tag on, back to the same tester and passed.As said no specific level is classed as a fail but if is loud and has even the slightest of leaks it will most likely fail.
My car failed an MOT (or more accuratly failed to be tested) because I had to fit a completely unsilenced system as my sports box fell apart!
I've know the MOT guy for years and I was quite open with him and explained the situation, but it was just rediculous, it was so loud that both of us agreed it was a stupid idea, and if he was asked to test it he's have to fail it, so we booked another MOT after I had my new system made.
I believe the rules are that the exhaust should be of similar levels to other cars of the same model, or words to that effect.
Tim
I've know the MOT guy for years and I was quite open with him and explained the situation, but it was just rediculous, it was so loud that both of us agreed it was a stupid idea, and if he was asked to test it he's have to fail it, so we booked another MOT after I had my new system made.
I believe the rules are that the exhaust should be of similar levels to other cars of the same model, or words to that effect.
Tim
The point is always missed.
If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
retroptvr said:
The point is always missed.
If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
i don't know why people want louder cars? Wierd. If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
When I was 17 and just through my test I wanted a loud exhaust. i then grew up and now I want a car as quiet as possible so that ist is pleasant to drive and doesn't give me a headache!
N.
heightswitch said:
retroptvr said:
The point is always missed.
If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
i don't know why people want louder cars? Wierd. If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
When I was 17 and just through my test I wanted a loud exhaust. i then grew up and now I want a car as quiet as possible so that ist is pleasant to drive and doesn't give me a headache!
N.
As for the other coment re' removal of cats, I'm guessing that Retroptvr's MGB or LWT 88 inch Air Portable Land Rover kick out more 'crap' than my tuned and remapped decatted Cerb'.
Tim
Edited by TT Tim on Sunday 15th March 14:29
heightswitch said:
retroptvr said:
The point is always missed.
If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
i don't know why people want louder cars? Wierd. If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
When I was 17 and just through my test I wanted a loud exhaust. i then grew up and now I want a car as quiet as possible so that ist is pleasant to drive and doesn't give me a headache!
N.
I'm thinking on getting a sports system on my S3, hope I don't have any problems...
If you're worried about the MOT after decatting why not fit high flow cats instead. I've got 100 cell cats on my Sagaris and the sound is great.
They were fitted by Chris Tullett exhausts in Aylesbury when they fabricated my new equal length header system and 2.5 inch ss pipes all the way to the back.
I think I am right in saying that Tullett make the headers for the new RG FFF engine, but don't take that as gospel.
Fast Eddie
They were fitted by Chris Tullett exhausts in Aylesbury when they fabricated my new equal length header system and 2.5 inch ss pipes all the way to the back.
I think I am right in saying that Tullett make the headers for the new RG FFF engine, but don't take that as gospel.
Fast Eddie
Statutory wise, technically you could fall foul of the Environmental Protection Act 1990, section 79 (Noise and Statutory Nuisance Act 1993), or technically you could have your car seized under the Police Reform Act 2002 (if it caused "alarm") and then of course there is the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use)Regulations 1986. But that's not important, what is important is retroptvr's correct point re your insurance.
Non disclosure will make your policy voidable (and you won't win if non disclosure can be shown). Not only do the insurance company not have to pay out, but they can have any money they already paid under a claim back off you.
Mind you, it might be worth it if it sounds good.
Non disclosure will make your policy voidable (and you won't win if non disclosure can be shown). Not only do the insurance company not have to pay out, but they can have any money they already paid under a claim back off you.
Mind you, it might be worth it if it sounds good.
Edited by TeGriffic on Monday 16th March 22:27
heightswitch said:
retroptvr said:
The point is always missed.
If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
i don't know why people want louder cars? Wierd. If you do not disclose any material modification to your insurance company and you have a legitimate claim they will not pay out, if they examine your vehicle and find an undisclosed mod, even if unrelated to the cause of incident.
Decatting the main cat, though a lot of smelly petrol fuming noisy fun is frowned upon and is not actively supported by any insurance company I have ever communicated with.
Anyone who does this (and yes I considered it once) risks only further fuelling the anti car lobby and classes TVRs with all sorts of vehicular boy racer riff raff. I don't want to be stopped by every patrol car after dark.
When I was 17 and just through my test I wanted a loud exhaust. i then grew up and now I want a car as quiet as possible so that ist is pleasant to drive and doesn't give me a headache!
N.
decatt as well…....Why… because I can and I love the noise
I've just had my CCC's fitted, it is noisier and over run is great though I don't think it is too loud. Most cops, especially the traffic, know proper sports cars are loud and won't bat an eyelid unless they are stupid. Stupid dustbins on the back of corsas and saxos are fair game however and quite frankly deserve to be puled and seized.
the requirements are, direct quote:
"assess subjectively the effectiveness of the silencer in reducing exhaust noise to a level considered to be average for the vehicle"
This makes clear that it is a subjective test and the testers opinion is critical. In the case of a TVR which are well known to be LOUD the phrase "average for the vehicle" gives a lot of scope! There is no requirement as stated by an earlier poster than the system cannot be modified or has to be type approved for the car, that is rubbish, or kwik Fit and every other non original exhaust maker would be out of business.
There are proposals due before parliament this year to make it necessary to use a type approved cat on some vehicles but it does not apply to exhaust systems, just the cat. In many other EU countries the entire system has to be type approved though but thats not news, I believe in germany you can't do diddly to a car without a full government test and approval after, not even so much as a bodykit or different tyres.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/devices/
"assess subjectively the effectiveness of the silencer in reducing exhaust noise to a level considered to be average for the vehicle"
This makes clear that it is a subjective test and the testers opinion is critical. In the case of a TVR which are well known to be LOUD the phrase "average for the vehicle" gives a lot of scope! There is no requirement as stated by an earlier poster than the system cannot be modified or has to be type approved for the car, that is rubbish, or kwik Fit and every other non original exhaust maker would be out of business.
There are proposals due before parliament this year to make it necessary to use a type approved cat on some vehicles but it does not apply to exhaust systems, just the cat. In many other EU countries the entire system has to be type approved though but thats not news, I believe in germany you can't do diddly to a car without a full government test and approval after, not even so much as a bodykit or different tyres.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/open/devices/
Edited by fatjon on Tuesday 17th March 15:25
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