engine movement
Discussion
Took the car for an MOT today and it failed due to the engine moving from side to side when the steering is wriggled.
I have changed the front subframe mounts (the towing eyes were missing!) but it still moves.
Will I need to change the engine mounts and if so is there an easy way of replacing the right hand mount without removing the flywheel cover?
Cheers
I have changed the front subframe mounts (the towing eyes were missing!) but it still moves.
Will I need to change the engine mounts and if so is there an easy way of replacing the right hand mount without removing the flywheel cover?
Cheers
Yes you will have to change the mounts - probably all of them. You didn't say how old your mini is so these are rather general instructions.
The flywheel one is a fiddly job, skinned knuckles time!.
You'll have to undo all the other engine mounts (above the flywheel, the "dog bone" by the sump plug, and the speedo drive engine mount). Now with a bit of luck you can jack up the flywheel end of the engine using a trolly jack under the gearbox. As you stand facing the front of the mini your aiming to tip the engine up within the subframe, flywheel end up fan end down.
Be very careful though! watch your exhaust clearance around the manifold & under the car, the carbs, air filters, fuel lines, drive shafts, gear stick linkage, clutch line, brake lines and radiator hoses. The radiator may give you the biggest problem. Please be carefull, this is to save you time having to strip ancillaries off the engine.
You should just get enough clearance to get a spanner/ socket to the flywheel engine mount. The forward one is easy (take the grill off) the one to the rear is the "fun" one. Lots of dropped spanners, swearing and blood.
The other problem you may have is with the new mounts, they will be stiff and won't compress enough with the weight of the engine on them. Therefore not lining up with the 2 mounting holes through the subframe. You could try compressing them in a vice overnight - this does not always work - heating them is not possible either because of fitting them in time. Try pushing a philips screwdriver through and levering them down into place.
Replace all the other mounts whilst you've got them off, poly ones last longer than the rubber ones, available from all the usual mini suppliers.
Best of luck, please be careful tipping the engine, jack it very slowly and check everything as you do it.
The flywheel one is a fiddly job, skinned knuckles time!.
You'll have to undo all the other engine mounts (above the flywheel, the "dog bone" by the sump plug, and the speedo drive engine mount). Now with a bit of luck you can jack up the flywheel end of the engine using a trolly jack under the gearbox. As you stand facing the front of the mini your aiming to tip the engine up within the subframe, flywheel end up fan end down.
Be very careful though! watch your exhaust clearance around the manifold & under the car, the carbs, air filters, fuel lines, drive shafts, gear stick linkage, clutch line, brake lines and radiator hoses. The radiator may give you the biggest problem. Please be carefull, this is to save you time having to strip ancillaries off the engine.
You should just get enough clearance to get a spanner/ socket to the flywheel engine mount. The forward one is easy (take the grill off) the one to the rear is the "fun" one. Lots of dropped spanners, swearing and blood.
The other problem you may have is with the new mounts, they will be stiff and won't compress enough with the weight of the engine on them. Therefore not lining up with the 2 mounting holes through the subframe. You could try compressing them in a vice overnight - this does not always work - heating them is not possible either because of fitting them in time. Try pushing a philips screwdriver through and levering them down into place.
Replace all the other mounts whilst you've got them off, poly ones last longer than the rubber ones, available from all the usual mini suppliers.
Best of luck, please be careful tipping the engine, jack it very slowly and check everything as you do it.
Edited by rufusruffcutt on Saturday 14th March 22:44
Edited by rufusruffcutt on Saturday 14th March 22:44
It's far more likely that the front subframe tower mounts require replacing. If you look under the bonnet and get somebody to wiggle the steering wheel you will most likely see the whole subframe moving and not just the engine. These mountings on the later minis in particular are very soft and wear out quite quickly. To replace them you need to lower the front subframe as they sit between it and the body at the highest point of the subframe. You would be as well changing the rear mountings at the same time as you have to remove these anyway to replace the tower mounts and then your subframe will have a full new set of mountings.
It will only appear that the engine is moving from side to side if the sub-frame to body mounts are worn. Worn engine mounts don't cause the engine to 'move' when the steering is turned.
My advice is to change to the solid sub-frame mounts throughout and buy a kit from Mini Spares. It's very easy to do as well.
With the solid kit fitted you'll never ever have that problem again and, as an additional bonus, the car will steer, handle and corner better than before.
IMHO, the rubber mounted sub-frame is one of the worst design change ever done to the Mini. (The worsrt change was to go to inside door hinges and wind-down windows?!)
My advice is to change to the solid sub-frame mounts throughout and buy a kit from Mini Spares. It's very easy to do as well.
With the solid kit fitted you'll never ever have that problem again and, as an additional bonus, the car will steer, handle and corner better than before.
IMHO, the rubber mounted sub-frame is one of the worst design change ever done to the Mini. (The worsrt change was to go to inside door hinges and wind-down windows?!)
Get yourself a set of metric ratchet spanners with the anglable heads, yes I know the mini is imperial, using the slightly larger sized metric makes it a little easier to get the spanner onto the bolt (i know this is not best practice) and angle heads allow you to get the spanner in.
I had my MOT recently and was given an advisory for a similar problem. They told me I would need to change the mounts at the rear of the front subframe, ie. the ones attached to the heel board, as they were starting to perish.
The chap I took it to for this and some engine diagnostics advised me to retain the standard rubber mounts here and only change the tower and teardrop mounts to solid if I wanted to firm things up.
He said that there was a risk of damaging the relatively thin heel board if you don't keep the rubber mounts here, the other locations are ok.
The chap I took it to for this and some engine diagnostics advised me to retain the standard rubber mounts here and only change the tower and teardrop mounts to solid if I wanted to firm things up.
He said that there was a risk of damaging the relatively thin heel board if you don't keep the rubber mounts here, the other locations are ok.
I have found corrosion at the heel-board mounts, but I still advise changine all the mounts for solid. If you don't the sub-frame to bodyshell loads are not applied correctly to all points as they should be. On competition Minis with later sub-frames, it is normal to re-inforcfe the heel-board mount area with an extra layer of steel sheet inside the car, welded in place. I did this on q 1991 mCooper which I prepared and han no subsequent problems, despite very hard use in the forests.
I managed to do it without taking the skin off my knuckles!!
A few bolts had to be cut off from the rear subframe mounts but apart from that it was not too bad - the worst bit was removing the paraphernalia to get to the nearside tower bolt. I did one side at a time and managed to drop the subframe enough to slip out the old rubbers, which were totally chewed up!!
MOT early next week - so fingers crossed. There is still a bit of play but I expect this is normal given that I did not use solid mountings?
Thanks for all your help - this is still the best forum going.
A few bolts had to be cut off from the rear subframe mounts but apart from that it was not too bad - the worst bit was removing the paraphernalia to get to the nearside tower bolt. I did one side at a time and managed to drop the subframe enough to slip out the old rubbers, which were totally chewed up!!
MOT early next week - so fingers crossed. There is still a bit of play but I expect this is normal given that I did not use solid mountings?
Thanks for all your help - this is still the best forum going.
You are right - the flex is normal - the car passed.
I wanted to keep the rubber (or polyflex) mountings for Autotests - it takes enough of a bashing as it is and I wanted to provide some 'comfort' to the mounting points.
If this season wrecks the new ones then I will give the solid type a go.
I wanted to keep the rubber (or polyflex) mountings for Autotests - it takes enough of a bashing as it is and I wanted to provide some 'comfort' to the mounting points.
If this season wrecks the new ones then I will give the solid type a go.
Glad to hear it passed the MOT!
I know the topic shifted to the subframe mounts, but you might want to give some thought to an extra engine steady bar if your doing autotests. It will help to prolong the life of all the other mounts. Probably one from the thermostat housing to the bulkhead on the passenger side. As the annoying tv adverts say, every little helps.
Good luck for this season
I know the topic shifted to the subframe mounts, but you might want to give some thought to an extra engine steady bar if your doing autotests. It will help to prolong the life of all the other mounts. Probably one from the thermostat housing to the bulkhead on the passenger side. As the annoying tv adverts say, every little helps.
Good luck for this season
That extra top engine steady - the 'Ultimate Engine Steady' - is really the answer to all the old engine location problems. In the 'old days' we were forever breaking the rear remote housing rubbers on the original Cooper 'S' on rallies, but since I have had the 'ultimate steady' on my Mk1 rally 'S' no further breakages have occurred.
Of course, with autesting, the need to go from forward to reverse often and quickly puts a very high stress onto the engine mountings and, personally, I would never do such events with a rubber mounted sub-frame, but that's personal choice. Anyway, with autotesting in a mini, it's the transmissions which normally break first, and break often!!
Of course, with autesting, the need to go from forward to reverse often and quickly puts a very high stress onto the engine mountings and, personally, I would never do such events with a rubber mounted sub-frame, but that's personal choice. Anyway, with autotesting in a mini, it's the transmissions which normally break first, and break often!!
Gassing Station | Classic Minis | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff