£30million? wtf
Discussion
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73748
how can any team in F1 run for £30million in todays world? i just dont see how its possible.
how can any team in F1 run for £30million in todays world? i just dont see how its possible.
Voluntary, until one team goes faster and everyone else has to spend more to catch up.
Surely the thing to do would be to cap it at £50million and put in place a proper budgetary monitoring system with a 3rd party to make sure the money is being accounted for at the end of the year. If they go over budget, they lose 1 point for every million the following season. If they want to cap spending of course.
Surely the thing to do would be to cap it at £50million and put in place a proper budgetary monitoring system with a 3rd party to make sure the money is being accounted for at the end of the year. If they go over budget, they lose 1 point for every million the following season. If they want to cap spending of course.
When you read the details the £30m includes all salaries, including team principal but excludes dividends paid out of profits. I have already spotted the gaping hole in that system. Don't pay staff, make them all shareholders so they get the profits meaning that all £30m can be spent on car development.
Is prize/TV money included in the £30m - if so it becomes a non-starter for Ferrari anyway (not bashing, just making a point). Of course, capping Bernie's take would be more appropriate.
Is prize/TV money included in the £30m - if so it becomes a non-starter for Ferrari anyway (not bashing, just making a point). Of course, capping Bernie's take would be more appropriate.
But the part of the plan that's appealing is that the cap itself is an alternative to running under the rules:
Following a meeting in Paris of the World Motor Sport Council, the body said the annual limit, set for now at 33m Euros, will be 'an alternative to running under the existing rules' which will remain unchanged until 2012 according to a deal reached with the Formula One Teams’ Association.
I wonder what sort of creativity will result: you have £33 million and NO LIMITS on what you run . . . giant hem-powered tricycles? Go!
Following a meeting in Paris of the World Motor Sport Council, the body said the annual limit, set for now at 33m Euros, will be 'an alternative to running under the existing rules' which will remain unchanged until 2012 according to a deal reached with the Formula One Teams’ Association.
I wonder what sort of creativity will result: you have £33 million and NO LIMITS on what you run . . . giant hem-powered tricycles? Go!
dafeller said:
But the part of the plan that's appealing is that the cap itself is an alternative to running under the rules:
Following a meeting in Paris of the World Motor Sport Council, the body said the annual limit, set for now at 33m Euros, will be 'an alternative to running under the existing rules' which will remain unchanged until 2012 according to a deal reached with the Formula One Teams’ Association.
I wonder what sort of creativity will result: you have £33 million and NO LIMITS on what you run . . . giant hem-powered tricycles? Go!
Or Ferrari A-TeamFollowing a meeting in Paris of the World Motor Sport Council, the body said the annual limit, set for now at 33m Euros, will be 'an alternative to running under the existing rules' which will remain unchanged until 2012 according to a deal reached with the Formula One Teams’ Association.
I wonder what sort of creativity will result: you have £33 million and NO LIMITS on what you run . . . giant hem-powered tricycles? Go!
Ferrari B-Team
Ferrari C-Team
Separate entities, but a free flow of information between them
I love the no limits option, but then they'd stipulate a large percentage of budget to safety to negate any 'sillyness'
From what I can gather, the £30m is the limit of expenditure - if a team raises more money than that through sponsorship & prize money, etc then they can pay a dividend to shareholders out of the profit margin.
It will, however, mean a significant pay cut for drivers as their wages have to come out of the £30m - factor in engine, KERS and other development / manufacturing costs and there won't be much left to pay for drivers & all team members' salaries.
I can appreciate that it's a way of attracting new teams to the sport, but I can't honestly see any existing manufacturer-backed teams signing up to it. Current driver salary contracts alone would probably preclude this. It would also mean a drastic reduction in workforce for these teams unless they can guarantee a significant profit margin each year.
On the other hand, some major sponsors could jump ship to the smaller teams to reduce their financial outlay which may force teh big boys to reassess their situation.
As it's not compulsory though, it may throw up some intersting technical innovations previously outlawed by te regulations - the lack of which which we've often complained about.
It will, however, mean a significant pay cut for drivers as their wages have to come out of the £30m - factor in engine, KERS and other development / manufacturing costs and there won't be much left to pay for drivers & all team members' salaries.
I can appreciate that it's a way of attracting new teams to the sport, but I can't honestly see any existing manufacturer-backed teams signing up to it. Current driver salary contracts alone would probably preclude this. It would also mean a drastic reduction in workforce for these teams unless they can guarantee a significant profit margin each year.
On the other hand, some major sponsors could jump ship to the smaller teams to reduce their financial outlay which may force teh big boys to reassess their situation.
As it's not compulsory though, it may throw up some intersting technical innovations previously outlawed by te regulations - the lack of which which we've often complained about.
dirty boy said:
jon- said:
Is it just me, or does this remind anyone of when they started running different classes of cars in the BTCC.
Confusing, pointless rubbish.
f
k off.
Works well in Le Mans IMO.Confusing, pointless rubbish.
f
k off.Makes it more interesting when two faster class cars are racing and come up behind slower cars.
LM/GT series has derived from prototype racing which has always had a history of mixed abilities hasn't it?
Edited by DrTre on Tuesday 17th March 17:05
dirty boy said:
True enough.
However, you may see some interesting innovations, and some very talented engineers who can showcase their abilities to the big boys, which is a massive incentive to succeed.
Definitely, I certainly like the idea of an engineering free for all. It's an interesting take on forcing the deisgners to think "outside the box". Whereas previously "the box" has been constraints imposed by the rules with an (effectively) unlimited budget, now "the box" is the budget...However, you may see some interesting innovations, and some very talented engineers who can showcase their abilities to the big boys, which is a massive incentive to succeed.
I'd just almost sooner it be one or the other I suppose...but it might work...and it might return to "racing improving the breed" through innovation, as you say.
I doubt this has been very well thought out. Just like most of the other recent cost cutting ideas, KERS and adjustable front wing flaps. They should just leave F1 alone and let the free market decide on the costs. Budgets will naturally rise and fall with the economy anyway. All this scare mongering crap is starting to get a bit annoying now. Particularly as the underlying objectives have nothing to do with "saving" F1. If Max really wants to make a positive contribution to the future of F1, then he should retire and f*ck off. Bernie could also do his bit by being ever so slightly less greedy.
I hear Bernie is planning to bank-roll a film about F1. The working title is "Formula 1 - Revenge of the Bean Counters !!!"
I watch F1 partly for the technical spectacle and to see how the cars are developed. The more this gets us towards a spec series, the more likely I'll be to switch off. I have no interest in A1GP, F3, GP2, WSR, Superleage formula, etc., etc. - they're all dull to my eye and I've never tried to get interested in them (possibly at the loss of missing some good racing, possibly not).
Just been pondering this again this morning.
If I was Force India or Brawn GP I'd be rubbing my hands with glee, because there's an awful lot of work you could do this year, when you have a decent budget, to prepare yourself for running as a budget capped team next year.
From the limited info available so far, it seems like you'd be daft not to go down the budget capped route if you wanted to win races, given the advantages being conferred. Many of the manufacturer teams have current know-how to run their engines at higher rpm to produce more power, so I can see a subsidiary being set up which leases things from McLaren 'parentco' and runs to the £30M budget.
Also, what happens when the £30M budget is reached - will teams have a pool of cash and when it runs out that's it ? So potentially they may miss the last couple of races in the season if their drivers bin a couple of chassis each ? Or would they be allowed to 'borrow' to get them through to the end of the year ? But in that case, how would you balance their early season unrestricted performance given that they're now a team racing outside the budget limited rules ??
Strikes me as being the ultimate Fantasy F1 game to me, and that's not a good thing....
Nick M said:
Just been pondering this again this morning.
If I was Force India or Brawn GP I'd be rubbing my hands with glee, because there's an awful lot of work you could do this year, when you have a decent budget, to prepare yourself for running as a budget capped team next year.
From the limited info available so far, it seems like you'd be daft not to go down the budget capped route if you wanted to win races, given the advantages being conferred. Many of the manufacturer teams have current know-how to run their engines at higher rpm to produce more power, so I can see a subsidiary being set up which leases things from McLaren 'parentco' and runs to the £30M budget.
Also, what happens when the £30M budget is reached - will teams have a pool of cash and when it runs out that's it ? So potentially they may miss the last couple of races in the season if their drivers bin a couple of chassis each ? Or would they be allowed to 'borrow' to get them through to the end of the year ? But in that case, how would you balance their early season unrestricted performance given that they're now a team racing outside the budget limited rules ??
Strikes me as being the ultimate Fantasy F1 game to me, and that's not a good thing....
Some excellent points there. Further, we haven't had FOTA's reply yet. Mosley is obviously ignoring their wishes or perhaps doing the exact opposite to what they want as part of his battle plan. If I was Force India or Brawn GP I'd be rubbing my hands with glee, because there's an awful lot of work you could do this year, when you have a decent budget, to prepare yourself for running as a budget capped team next year.
From the limited info available so far, it seems like you'd be daft not to go down the budget capped route if you wanted to win races, given the advantages being conferred. Many of the manufacturer teams have current know-how to run their engines at higher rpm to produce more power, so I can see a subsidiary being set up which leases things from McLaren 'parentco' and runs to the £30M budget.
Also, what happens when the £30M budget is reached - will teams have a pool of cash and when it runs out that's it ? So potentially they may miss the last couple of races in the season if their drivers bin a couple of chassis each ? Or would they be allowed to 'borrow' to get them through to the end of the year ? But in that case, how would you balance their early season unrestricted performance given that they're now a team racing outside the budget limited rules ??
Strikes me as being the ultimate Fantasy F1 game to me, and that's not a good thing....
If so then his strategy is basic: let's face it, he's not the most subtle of people. It would appear that what he's trying to do in break the unity of FOTA by promising the poorer teams something if they go with him. It's obvious, selfish and crude so my feeling it's a good bet as it's what he knows.
You'd think that as he's got all the power and authority he'd use some other method. But that's him I suppose. We've seen enough of him over recent times to see that negotiation and compromise are not his strongest suit.
Derek Smith said:
Nick M said:
Just been pondering this again this morning.
If I was Force India or Brawn GP I'd be rubbing my hands with glee, because there's an awful lot of work you could do this year, when you have a decent budget, to prepare yourself for running as a budget capped team next year.
From the limited info available so far, it seems like you'd be daft not to go down the budget capped route if you wanted to win races, given the advantages being conferred. Many of the manufacturer teams have current know-how to run their engines at higher rpm to produce more power, so I can see a subsidiary being set up which leases things from McLaren 'parentco' and runs to the £30M budget.
Also, what happens when the £30M budget is reached - will teams have a pool of cash and when it runs out that's it ? So potentially they may miss the last couple of races in the season if their drivers bin a couple of chassis each ? Or would they be allowed to 'borrow' to get them through to the end of the year ? But in that case, how would you balance their early season unrestricted performance given that they're now a team racing outside the budget limited rules ??
Strikes me as being the ultimate Fantasy F1 game to me, and that's not a good thing....
Some excellent points there. Further, we haven't had FOTA's reply yet. Mosley is obviously ignoring their wishes or perhaps doing the exact opposite to what they want as part of his battle plan. If I was Force India or Brawn GP I'd be rubbing my hands with glee, because there's an awful lot of work you could do this year, when you have a decent budget, to prepare yourself for running as a budget capped team next year.
From the limited info available so far, it seems like you'd be daft not to go down the budget capped route if you wanted to win races, given the advantages being conferred. Many of the manufacturer teams have current know-how to run their engines at higher rpm to produce more power, so I can see a subsidiary being set up which leases things from McLaren 'parentco' and runs to the £30M budget.
Also, what happens when the £30M budget is reached - will teams have a pool of cash and when it runs out that's it ? So potentially they may miss the last couple of races in the season if their drivers bin a couple of chassis each ? Or would they be allowed to 'borrow' to get them through to the end of the year ? But in that case, how would you balance their early season unrestricted performance given that they're now a team racing outside the budget limited rules ??
Strikes me as being the ultimate Fantasy F1 game to me, and that's not a good thing....
If so then his strategy is basic: let's face it, he's not the most subtle of people. It would appear that what he's trying to do in break the unity of FOTA by promising the poorer teams something if they go with him. It's obvious, selfish and crude so my feeling it's a good bet as it's what he knows.
You'd think that as he's got all the power and authority he'd use some other method. But that's him I suppose. We've seen enough of him over recent times to see that negotiation and compromise are not his strongest suit.
With this new, draconian proposal - coming on the heels of the teams themselves having proposed major expense cuts - another part of his strategy has emerged.
Obviously, Max needs Bernie. Conversely, how could Max get Bernie to need him? Well, if the cost basis of the formula were slashed by so much (90% proposed reduction for some teams), then the teams wouldn't need much prize money, would they? In fact, they wouldn't need any.
Now, if the Commercial Rights Holder did not have to pay out any prize money to the entrants, unlike paying out $400M as it is doing now, one wonders what it would do with the extra $400M. Probably give it to charity, I suppose.
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