LSx nomenclature ??
Discussion
Can someone summarise the differences between the various LSx engines as fitted to the Monaro VY/VZ and VXR8?
I have an 04 CV8 which has an 5.7 litre "LS1" ....?
Secondly, what is the realistic maximum power achievable from a LS1 with standard internals - with and without a supercharger?
Thanks, Paul.
I have an 04 CV8 which has an 5.7 litre "LS1" ....?
Secondly, what is the realistic maximum power achievable from a LS1 with standard internals - with and without a supercharger?
Thanks, Paul.
Not many engine choices really Either LS1, LS2 or recent LS3 stuff, nothing else.
All LS1 were Gen3 and all LS2/3 are Gen4.
I will speak only of the unsoiled NA engine.
For a reasonable daily driver with a mid sized cam:
5.7L max rear wheel power NA would be about 400bhp
6L LS2 you are looking at perhaps 430bhp
6.2L LS3 maybe 450bhp or so.
Guys in the US say they have 500rwhp from an LS1, but US dynos read about 10% high, so maybe you can eek some more out, but you have to know what you are doing any everything better be super correct and optimised.
All LS1 were Gen3 and all LS2/3 are Gen4.
I will speak only of the unsoiled NA engine.
For a reasonable daily driver with a mid sized cam:
5.7L max rear wheel power NA would be about 400bhp
6L LS2 you are looking at perhaps 430bhp
6.2L LS3 maybe 450bhp or so.
Guys in the US say they have 500rwhp from an LS1, but US dynos read about 10% high, so maybe you can eek some more out, but you have to know what you are doing any everything better be super correct and optimised.
ringram said:
Not many engine choices really Either LS1, LS2 or recent LS3 stuff, nothing else.
All LS1 were Gen3 and all LS2/3 are Gen4.
I will speak only of the unsoiled NA engine.
For a reasonable daily driver with a mid sized cam:
5.7L max rear wheel power NA would be about 400bhp
6L LS2 you are looking at perhaps 430bhp
6.2L LS3 maybe 450bhp or so.
Guys in the US say they have 500rwhp from an LS1, but US dynos read about 10% high, so maybe you can eek some more out, but you have to know what you are doing any everything better be super correct and optimised.
So on the LS1 topic. What are the intake/heads on the Monaros? Are they LS1 or LS6?
All LS1 were Gen3 and all LS2/3 are Gen4.
I will speak only of the unsoiled NA engine.
For a reasonable daily driver with a mid sized cam:
5.7L max rear wheel power NA would be about 400bhp
6L LS2 you are looking at perhaps 430bhp
6.2L LS3 maybe 450bhp or so.
Guys in the US say they have 500rwhp from an LS1, but US dynos read about 10% high, so maybe you can eek some more out, but you have to know what you are doing any everything better be super correct and optimised.
So on the LS1 topic. What are the intake/heads on the Monaros? Are they LS1 or LS6?
GSE said:
Can someone summarise the differences between the various LSx engines as fitted to the Monaro VY/VZ and VXR8?
I have an 04 CV8 which has an 5.7 litre "LS1" ....?
Secondly, what is the realistic maximum power achievable from a LS1 with standard internals - with and without a supercharger?
Thanks, Paul.
I have an 04 CV8 which has an 5.7 litre "LS1" ....?
Secondly, what is the realistic maximum power achievable from a LS1 with standard internals - with and without a supercharger?
Thanks, Paul.
I think the question about how much can be achived needs some provisos attached. Yes you can make some big power N/A but what level of compromise are you prepared to live with? Do you want to pass emmision, smooth idle, economy? How many parts are you prepared to change. If you follow it to its logical conclusion you won't really have an LS1 when your done!
Likewise, with forced induction, its about what level of risk you want to take with stock pistons. With an LS1 id stop around 570bhp (at the fly) but more is possible if you really want to stretch it.
Oh I see..
From VX model (Around 01) on all LS1's had LS6 intake
VT model 4 doors had the old crusty LS1 intake.
early ls1 heads were 853 castings basically sand cast IIRC
Later model LS1 heads were 241 castings same as 853 but used "lost wax" process instead, a little smoother in the final finish.
All LS2's got the LS6 heads, casting 243 basically an upscaled LS1 head (bigger intake valve and ports), they take the same manifolds
But the LS2 manifold has a 90mm intake for the larger throttle, all the earlier LS1 stuff was 75 or some say 78mm throttle.
Finally the LS3 has different heads again and a new intake, higher square ports etc. Both heads and intake flow better than the older stuff as per usual.
LS3 heads were actually prototype LS7 heads before GM decided they wanted more displacement. Hence why they are the same used in the LS9 640bhp SC engine. Apart from different valve material. (No Im not going to bother discussing all the different sodium and titanium valve options, you can google them yourself!)
Anyway, why does nobody use Google these days?
From VX model (Around 01) on all LS1's had LS6 intake
VT model 4 doors had the old crusty LS1 intake.
early ls1 heads were 853 castings basically sand cast IIRC
Later model LS1 heads were 241 castings same as 853 but used "lost wax" process instead, a little smoother in the final finish.
All LS2's got the LS6 heads, casting 243 basically an upscaled LS1 head (bigger intake valve and ports), they take the same manifolds
But the LS2 manifold has a 90mm intake for the larger throttle, all the earlier LS1 stuff was 75 or some say 78mm throttle.
Finally the LS3 has different heads again and a new intake, higher square ports etc. Both heads and intake flow better than the older stuff as per usual.
LS3 heads were actually prototype LS7 heads before GM decided they wanted more displacement. Hence why they are the same used in the LS9 640bhp SC engine. Apart from different valve material. (No Im not going to bother discussing all the different sodium and titanium valve options, you can google them yourself!)
Anyway, why does nobody use Google these days?
That Google thing really is good Richard, I have no idea why it doesn't get used more often 
Courtesy of Google.
LS1, LS6,LS2, LS3, L99, LS4, LS7, LS9 And LSA Engine History - LS Engine And LSX History
LS1/LS6
LS1 5.7L (346-cu-in) engines were produced between the 1997 and 2004 model years in the United States (Corvette, Camaro, Firebird and GTO) and stretching into 2005 in other markets (primarily Australia). The LS6 was introduced in 2001 in the Corvette Z06 and was manufactured through 2005, where it also was found in the first generation of the Cadillac CTS-V. The LS1 and LS6 share a 5.7L displacement, but the LS6 production engine uses a unique block casting with enhanced strength, greater bay-to-bay breathing capability and other minor differences. The heads, intake manifolds and camshaft also are unique LS6 parts.
LS2
In 2005, the LS2 6.0L (364 cu in) engine and the Gen IV design changes debuted. In GM performance vehicles, it was offered in the Corvette, GTO and even the heritage-styled SSR roadster. It is the standard engine in the Pontiac G8 GT. Its larger displacement brought greater power. The LS2 is one of the most adaptable engines, as LS1, LS6, LS3 and L92 cylinder heads work well on it.
LS3/L99
Introduced on the 2008 Corvette, the LS3 brought LS base performance to an unprecedented level: 430 horsepower from 6.2L (376 cu in) - making it the most powerful base Corvette engine in history. The LS3 block not only has larger bores than the LS2, but a strengthened casting to support more powerful 6.2L engines, including the LS9 supercharged engine of the Corvette ZR1. The LS3 is offered in the Pontiac G8 GXP and is also the standard V-8 engine in the new, 2010 Camaro SS. The L99 version is equipped with GM's fuel-saving Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation system and is standard on 2010 Camaro SS models equipped with an automatic transmission.
LS4
Perhaps the most unique application of the LS engine in a car, the LS4 is a 5.3L version used in the front-wheel-drive Chevrolet Impala SS and Pontiac Grand Prix GXP. The LS4 has an aluminum block and unique, low-profile front-end accessory system, including a "flattened" water pump, to accommodate the transverse mounting position within the Impala and Grand Prix. It is rated at 303 horsepower and 323 lb-ft of torque.
LS7
A legend in its own time. The LS7 is the standard engine in the Corvette Z06 and its 7.0L displacement (427 cubic inches) makes it the largest LS engine offered in a production car. Unlike LS1/LS6, LS2 and LS3 engines, the LS7 uses a Siamese-bore cylinder block design - required for its big, 4.125-inch bores. Competition-proven heads and lightweight components, such as titanium rods and intake valves, make the LS7 a street-tuned racing engine, with 505 horsepower. LS7 engines are built by hand at the GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Mich.
LS9
The most powerful production engine ever from GM, the LS9 is the 6.2L supercharged and charge-cooled engine of the Corvette ZR1. It is rated at an astonishing 638 horsepower. The LS9 uses the strengthened 6.2L block with stronger, roto-cast cylinder heads and a sixth-generation 2.3L Roots-type supercharger. Like the LS7, it uses a dry-sump oiling system. It is the ultimate production LS engine. It is built by hand at the GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Mich.
LSA
A detuned version of the LS9, this supercharged 6.2L engine is standard in the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. It is built with several differences, when compared to the LS9, including hypereutectic pistons vs. the LS9's forged pistons; and a smaller, 1.9L supercharger. The LSA also has a different charge-cooler design on top of the supercharger. Horsepower is rated at 556 in the super-quick Caddy.
Courtesy of Google.
LS1, LS6,LS2, LS3, L99, LS4, LS7, LS9 And LSA Engine History - LS Engine And LSX History
LS1/LS6
LS1 5.7L (346-cu-in) engines were produced between the 1997 and 2004 model years in the United States (Corvette, Camaro, Firebird and GTO) and stretching into 2005 in other markets (primarily Australia). The LS6 was introduced in 2001 in the Corvette Z06 and was manufactured through 2005, where it also was found in the first generation of the Cadillac CTS-V. The LS1 and LS6 share a 5.7L displacement, but the LS6 production engine uses a unique block casting with enhanced strength, greater bay-to-bay breathing capability and other minor differences. The heads, intake manifolds and camshaft also are unique LS6 parts.
LS2
In 2005, the LS2 6.0L (364 cu in) engine and the Gen IV design changes debuted. In GM performance vehicles, it was offered in the Corvette, GTO and even the heritage-styled SSR roadster. It is the standard engine in the Pontiac G8 GT. Its larger displacement brought greater power. The LS2 is one of the most adaptable engines, as LS1, LS6, LS3 and L92 cylinder heads work well on it.
LS3/L99
Introduced on the 2008 Corvette, the LS3 brought LS base performance to an unprecedented level: 430 horsepower from 6.2L (376 cu in) - making it the most powerful base Corvette engine in history. The LS3 block not only has larger bores than the LS2, but a strengthened casting to support more powerful 6.2L engines, including the LS9 supercharged engine of the Corvette ZR1. The LS3 is offered in the Pontiac G8 GXP and is also the standard V-8 engine in the new, 2010 Camaro SS. The L99 version is equipped with GM's fuel-saving Active Fuel Management cylinder deactivation system and is standard on 2010 Camaro SS models equipped with an automatic transmission.
LS4
Perhaps the most unique application of the LS engine in a car, the LS4 is a 5.3L version used in the front-wheel-drive Chevrolet Impala SS and Pontiac Grand Prix GXP. The LS4 has an aluminum block and unique, low-profile front-end accessory system, including a "flattened" water pump, to accommodate the transverse mounting position within the Impala and Grand Prix. It is rated at 303 horsepower and 323 lb-ft of torque.
LS7
A legend in its own time. The LS7 is the standard engine in the Corvette Z06 and its 7.0L displacement (427 cubic inches) makes it the largest LS engine offered in a production car. Unlike LS1/LS6, LS2 and LS3 engines, the LS7 uses a Siamese-bore cylinder block design - required for its big, 4.125-inch bores. Competition-proven heads and lightweight components, such as titanium rods and intake valves, make the LS7 a street-tuned racing engine, with 505 horsepower. LS7 engines are built by hand at the GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Mich.
LS9
The most powerful production engine ever from GM, the LS9 is the 6.2L supercharged and charge-cooled engine of the Corvette ZR1. It is rated at an astonishing 638 horsepower. The LS9 uses the strengthened 6.2L block with stronger, roto-cast cylinder heads and a sixth-generation 2.3L Roots-type supercharger. Like the LS7, it uses a dry-sump oiling system. It is the ultimate production LS engine. It is built by hand at the GM Performance Build Center in Wixom, Mich.
LSA
A detuned version of the LS9, this supercharged 6.2L engine is standard in the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. It is built with several differences, when compared to the LS9, including hypereutectic pistons vs. the LS9's forged pistons; and a smaller, 1.9L supercharger. The LSA also has a different charge-cooler design on top of the supercharger. Horsepower is rated at 556 in the super-quick Caddy.
'Hypereutectic pistons'- WTF?
I looked it up:-
“Hypereutectic” means over eutectic. The word eutectic refers to a condition in chemistry when two elements can be alloyed together on a molecular level, but only up to a specific percentage, at which point any additional secondary element will retain a distinct separate form.
Although internal combustion engine pistons commonly contain trace amounts (less than 2% each) of copper, manganese, and nickel, the major element in automotive pistons is aluminium due to its light weight, low cost, and acceptable strength. The alloying element of concern in automotive pistons is silicon. Gold and silver have no eutectic point, which means they can be alloyed together in any ratio, however, when silicon is added to aluminium they only blend together evenly on a molecular level up to approximately a 12% silicon content. For the purposes of this discussion, silicon in this context can be thought of as “powdered sand”. Any silicon that is added to aluminium above a 12% content will retain a distinct granular form instead of melting. At a blend of 25% silicon there is a significant reduction of strength in the piston alloy so stock hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. Special moulds, casting, and cooling techniques are required to obtain uniformly dispersed silicon particles throughout the piston material.
[edit] The reason for their development
Most automotive engines use aluminium pistons that move in an iron cylinder. The average temperature of a piston crown in a gasoline engine during normal operation is typically about 300C (600 degrees Fahrenheit) and the coolant that runs through the engine block is usually regulated at approximately 90C (190 degrees F). Aluminium expands more than iron at this temperature range so for the piston to fit the cylinder properly when at a normal operating temperature, the piston must have a loose fit when cold.
In the 1970s increasing concern over exhaust pollution caused the U.S. government to form the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) which began passing legislation that forced automobile manufacturers to introduce changes that made their engines to run cleaner. By the late 1980s automobile exhaust pollution had been noticeably improved but more stringent regulations forced car manufacturers to adopt the use of electronically controlled fuel injection and hypereutectic pistons. Regarding pistons, it was discovered that when an engine was cold during start-up, a small amount of fuel became trapped between the piston rings. As the engine warmed up, the piston expanded and expeled this small amount of fuel which added to the amount of unburnt hydrocarbons in the exhaust.
By adding silicon to the piston's alloy, the piston expansion was dramatically reduced. This allowed engineers to specify a much tighter cold-fit between the piston and the cylinder liner. Silicon itself expands less than aluminium but it also acts as an insulator to prevent the aluminium from absorbing as much of the operational heat as it otherwise would. Another benefit of adding silicon is that the piston becomes harder and is less susceptible to scuffing which can occur when a soft aluminium piston is cold-revved in a relatively dry cylinder on start-up or during abnormally high operating temperatures.
The biggest drawback of adding silicon to pistons is that the piston becomes more brittle as the ratio of silicon is added. This makes the piston more susceptible to cracking if the engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation.
[edit] Performance replacement alloys
When auto enthusiasts want to increase the power of the engine they may add some type of forced induction. By compressing more air and fuel into each intake cycle, the power of the engine can be dramatically increased. This also increases the heat and pressure in the cylinder.
The normal temperature of gasoline engine exhaust is approximately 650C (1200F). This is also approximately the melting point of most aluminium alloys and it is only the constant influx of ambient air that prevents the piston from deforming and failing. Forced induction increases the operating temperatures while “under boost” and if the excess heat is added faster than engine can shed it, the elevated cylinder temperatures will cause the air and fuel mix to auto-ignite on the compression stroke before the spark event. This is one type of engine knocking that causes a sudden shockwave and pressure spike, which can result in an immediate and catastrophic failure of the piston and connecting rod.
The “4032” performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%. This means that it expands less than a piston with no silicon, but since the silicon is fully alloyed on a molecular level (eutectic), the alloy is less brittle and more flexible than a stock hypereutectic “smog” piston. These pistons can survive mild detonation with less damage than stock pistons.
The “2618” performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon and could be described as hypo (under) eutectic. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines. Both because of the higher than normal temperatures that these pistons experience in their usual application and the low-silicon content causing the extra heat-expansion, these pistons have their cylinders bored to a very loose cold-fit. This leads to a condition known as “piston slap” which is when the piston rocks in the cylinder and it causes an audible tapping noise that continues until the engine has warmed to operational temperatures. These engines should not be revved when cold, or excessive scuffing can occur.
[edit] Forged versus Cast
When a piston is cast the alloy is heated until liquid, then poured into a mould to create the basic shape. After the alloy cools and solidifies it is removed from the mould and the rough casting is machined to its final shape. For applications which require stronger pistons, a forging process is used.
In the forging process the rough casting is placed in a die set while it is still hot and semi-solid. A hydraulic press is used to place the rough slug under tremendous pressure. This removes any possible porosity and also pushes the alloy grains together tighter than can be achieved by simple casting alone. The result is a much stronger material.
Hypereutectic pistons can be forged but typically are only cast because the extra expense of forging is not justified when cast pistons are considered strong enough for stock applications.
Aftermarket performance pistons made from the most common 4032 and 2618 alloys are typically forged.
I looked it up:-
“Hypereutectic” means over eutectic. The word eutectic refers to a condition in chemistry when two elements can be alloyed together on a molecular level, but only up to a specific percentage, at which point any additional secondary element will retain a distinct separate form.
Although internal combustion engine pistons commonly contain trace amounts (less than 2% each) of copper, manganese, and nickel, the major element in automotive pistons is aluminium due to its light weight, low cost, and acceptable strength. The alloying element of concern in automotive pistons is silicon. Gold and silver have no eutectic point, which means they can be alloyed together in any ratio, however, when silicon is added to aluminium they only blend together evenly on a molecular level up to approximately a 12% silicon content. For the purposes of this discussion, silicon in this context can be thought of as “powdered sand”. Any silicon that is added to aluminium above a 12% content will retain a distinct granular form instead of melting. At a blend of 25% silicon there is a significant reduction of strength in the piston alloy so stock hypereutectic pistons commonly use a level of silicon between 16% and 19%. Special moulds, casting, and cooling techniques are required to obtain uniformly dispersed silicon particles throughout the piston material.
[edit] The reason for their development
Most automotive engines use aluminium pistons that move in an iron cylinder. The average temperature of a piston crown in a gasoline engine during normal operation is typically about 300C (600 degrees Fahrenheit) and the coolant that runs through the engine block is usually regulated at approximately 90C (190 degrees F). Aluminium expands more than iron at this temperature range so for the piston to fit the cylinder properly when at a normal operating temperature, the piston must have a loose fit when cold.
In the 1970s increasing concern over exhaust pollution caused the U.S. government to form the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) which began passing legislation that forced automobile manufacturers to introduce changes that made their engines to run cleaner. By the late 1980s automobile exhaust pollution had been noticeably improved but more stringent regulations forced car manufacturers to adopt the use of electronically controlled fuel injection and hypereutectic pistons. Regarding pistons, it was discovered that when an engine was cold during start-up, a small amount of fuel became trapped between the piston rings. As the engine warmed up, the piston expanded and expeled this small amount of fuel which added to the amount of unburnt hydrocarbons in the exhaust.
By adding silicon to the piston's alloy, the piston expansion was dramatically reduced. This allowed engineers to specify a much tighter cold-fit between the piston and the cylinder liner. Silicon itself expands less than aluminium but it also acts as an insulator to prevent the aluminium from absorbing as much of the operational heat as it otherwise would. Another benefit of adding silicon is that the piston becomes harder and is less susceptible to scuffing which can occur when a soft aluminium piston is cold-revved in a relatively dry cylinder on start-up or during abnormally high operating temperatures.
The biggest drawback of adding silicon to pistons is that the piston becomes more brittle as the ratio of silicon is added. This makes the piston more susceptible to cracking if the engine experiences pre-ignition or detonation.
[edit] Performance replacement alloys
When auto enthusiasts want to increase the power of the engine they may add some type of forced induction. By compressing more air and fuel into each intake cycle, the power of the engine can be dramatically increased. This also increases the heat and pressure in the cylinder.
The normal temperature of gasoline engine exhaust is approximately 650C (1200F). This is also approximately the melting point of most aluminium alloys and it is only the constant influx of ambient air that prevents the piston from deforming and failing. Forced induction increases the operating temperatures while “under boost” and if the excess heat is added faster than engine can shed it, the elevated cylinder temperatures will cause the air and fuel mix to auto-ignite on the compression stroke before the spark event. This is one type of engine knocking that causes a sudden shockwave and pressure spike, which can result in an immediate and catastrophic failure of the piston and connecting rod.
The “4032” performance piston alloy has a silicon content of approximately 11%. This means that it expands less than a piston with no silicon, but since the silicon is fully alloyed on a molecular level (eutectic), the alloy is less brittle and more flexible than a stock hypereutectic “smog” piston. These pistons can survive mild detonation with less damage than stock pistons.
The “2618” performance piston alloy has less than 2% silicon and could be described as hypo (under) eutectic. This alloy is capable of experiencing the most detonation and abuse while suffering the least amount of damage. Pistons made of this alloy are also typically made thicker and heavier because of their most common applications in commercial diesel engines. Both because of the higher than normal temperatures that these pistons experience in their usual application and the low-silicon content causing the extra heat-expansion, these pistons have their cylinders bored to a very loose cold-fit. This leads to a condition known as “piston slap” which is when the piston rocks in the cylinder and it causes an audible tapping noise that continues until the engine has warmed to operational temperatures. These engines should not be revved when cold, or excessive scuffing can occur.
[edit] Forged versus Cast
When a piston is cast the alloy is heated until liquid, then poured into a mould to create the basic shape. After the alloy cools and solidifies it is removed from the mould and the rough casting is machined to its final shape. For applications which require stronger pistons, a forging process is used.
In the forging process the rough casting is placed in a die set while it is still hot and semi-solid. A hydraulic press is used to place the rough slug under tremendous pressure. This removes any possible porosity and also pushes the alloy grains together tighter than can be achieved by simple casting alone. The result is a much stronger material.
Hypereutectic pistons can be forged but typically are only cast because the extra expense of forging is not justified when cast pistons are considered strong enough for stock applications.
Aftermarket performance pistons made from the most common 4032 and 2618 alloys are typically forged.
ringram said:
Oh I see..
From VX model (Around 01) on all LS1's had LS6 intake
VT model 4 doors had the old crusty LS1 intake.
early ls1 heads were 853 castings basically sand cast IIRC
Later model LS1 heads were 241 castings same as 853 but used "lost wax" process instead, a little smoother in the final finish.
All LS2's got the LS6 heads, casting 243 basically an upscaled LS1 head (bigger intake valve and ports), they take the same manifolds
But the LS2 manifold has a 90mm intake for the larger throttle, all the earlier LS1 stuff was 75 or some say 78mm throttle.
Finally the LS3 has different heads again and a new intake, higher square ports etc. Both heads and intake flow better than the older stuff as per usual.
LS3 heads were actually prototype LS7 heads before GM decided they wanted more displacement. Hence why they are the same used in the LS9 640bhp SC engine. Apart from different valve material. (No Im not going to bother discussing all the different sodium and titanium valve options, you can google them yourself!)
Anyway, why does nobody use Google these days?
From VX model (Around 01) on all LS1's had LS6 intake
VT model 4 doors had the old crusty LS1 intake.
early ls1 heads were 853 castings basically sand cast IIRC
Later model LS1 heads were 241 castings same as 853 but used "lost wax" process instead, a little smoother in the final finish.
All LS2's got the LS6 heads, casting 243 basically an upscaled LS1 head (bigger intake valve and ports), they take the same manifolds
But the LS2 manifold has a 90mm intake for the larger throttle, all the earlier LS1 stuff was 75 or some say 78mm throttle.
Finally the LS3 has different heads again and a new intake, higher square ports etc. Both heads and intake flow better than the older stuff as per usual.
LS3 heads were actually prototype LS7 heads before GM decided they wanted more displacement. Hence why they are the same used in the LS9 640bhp SC engine. Apart from different valve material. (No Im not going to bother discussing all the different sodium and titanium valve options, you can google them yourself!)
Anyway, why does nobody use Google these days?
Cheeky. Watch it or I'll put the MAF back on
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