Discussion
I purchased a Cerbera a few months ago and I am still fighting to resolve a couple of problems. The most irritating is some exhaust resonance at about 2k. This is an early Cerbera and I would like to know if this is a common problem and how it can be solved.
Secondly the car does not seem to run very smoothly. It seems to cough and splutter on occasions. I have taken the car to have it checked out, had the tappets adjusted, throttle position sensors changed and setup, throttle cable changed and still no different. I have been told by more than one person on more than one occasion that this is normal but I just can't get my head round it.
Please Heeeeeelllllllllpppppppppp
as I am going nuts.
Secondly the car does not seem to run very smoothly. It seems to cough and splutter on occasions. I have taken the car to have it checked out, had the tappets adjusted, throttle position sensors changed and setup, throttle cable changed and still no different. I have been told by more than one person on more than one occasion that this is normal but I just can't get my head round it.
Please Heeeeeelllllllllpppppppppp
as I am going nuts.
simonhaynes said:
I. The most irritating is some exhaust resonance at about 2k.
It seems to cough and splutter on occasions.
1) If it's a sort of groaning noise under power, our 4.2 '97 does that too.
2) Coughs and splutters when accelerating (if so, what revs?), or do you mean the cute pops and bangs on the overrun, which a) add character b) ruin catalytic converters?
Resonance can be caused
1. by an old style clutch. Costs about £1200 to fit the new one so turn up the CD player.
2. Exhaust system resonance. Change the system or turn up the CD player.
Engine spluttering etc. Yeah pretty normal below around 4000 revs as the engine has not much torque below these revs and expecting it to pull away like a Rover will result in the engine complaining big time. Use the gears if necessary to maintain the revs.
1. by an old style clutch. Costs about £1200 to fit the new one so turn up the CD player.
2. Exhaust system resonance. Change the system or turn up the CD player.
Engine spluttering etc. Yeah pretty normal below around 4000 revs as the engine has not much torque below these revs and expecting it to pull away like a Rover will result in the engine complaining big time. Use the gears if necessary to maintain the revs.
If it's a more rattly kind of noise then check all the bolts holding the exhaust together. Mine was driving me nuts at low revs until I found a couple of bolts missing and my cat hanging loose.
Alternativly, get a sports exhaust and de-cat then you won't hear a thing.... ever again!!!!
Alternativly, get a sports exhaust and de-cat then you won't hear a thing.... ever again!!!!
Hi simon
Agree with the others,
a) the resonance is most likely the clutch, as you have an early 4.2, probably with the original which had this as a regular problem. As they do not make them any more, you will have to replace the whole unit including the bell housing if you want to solve it, hence the £1200 price quoted, as this then fits the complete 4.5 version.
b) The cerb V8's have a problem in the way the ECU manages fuel around 2000rpm. Due to a conflict between fueling for smooth running and fueling to protect the cats, the system appears to get lean about this point and hunts to settle itself, hence the uneven running. This varies greatly from car to car. An early 4.2 with the 'clatter' cams is the worse, plus if the engine is slightly off tune or the Lambda sensors are reporting excessive fluctuations (can be due to dirty/bad contacts as I found myself!) it is further emphasised. On the assumption that it has not already been done, find someone with the software to check the running, and possibly reset the maps
Agree with the others,
a) the resonance is most likely the clutch, as you have an early 4.2, probably with the original which had this as a regular problem. As they do not make them any more, you will have to replace the whole unit including the bell housing if you want to solve it, hence the £1200 price quoted, as this then fits the complete 4.5 version.
b) The cerb V8's have a problem in the way the ECU manages fuel around 2000rpm. Due to a conflict between fueling for smooth running and fueling to protect the cats, the system appears to get lean about this point and hunts to settle itself, hence the uneven running. This varies greatly from car to car. An early 4.2 with the 'clatter' cams is the worse, plus if the engine is slightly off tune or the Lambda sensors are reporting excessive fluctuations (can be due to dirty/bad contacts as I found myself!) it is further emphasised. On the assumption that it has not already been done, find someone with the software to check the running, and possibly reset the maps
Resonance is almost certainly the early clutch - mine resonated terribly at c2000 rpm until the clutch died - had the new type fitted & no more resonance, plus the clutch is so easy to use now, it's like having a different car.
As it's not cheap to upgrade I agree with other comments here - put a nice loud sports exhaust on & you wont be able to hear the noise anymore !!
As it's not cheap to upgrade I agree with other comments here - put a nice loud sports exhaust on & you wont be able to hear the noise anymore !!
I agree with ro Butler the reasonance/rattle at 2,000 rpm is the ehxhuast ratlling on the chassis when cold.
Mine does the same and after 5 mins it must warm up and expand missing the offending objects so stops doing it.
Ive not been able to get under the car to check/fix it but am sure its just a matter of a few bolts around the cats.
Mine does the same and after 5 mins it must warm up and expand missing the offending objects so stops doing it.
Ive not been able to get under the car to check/fix it but am sure its just a matter of a few bolts around the cats.
First of all thanks for all your comments. I had been told about changing the clutch but I not ready to part with £1200 just yet. When I got the car I did not have this resonance. It is a sports exhaust and one of the pipes broke just after the cat, going towards the tail.
This was welded up and put back. The problems started after this. I have taken it to 4 different places to check on the exhaust mounting and none of them could see a problem.
The coughing is not the burning of fuel dumped in the exhaust this is more of a splutter. It is more noticable at slow speeds, say 40 in 3rd. With my foot off the clutch the car kangaroos up the road. As I said I have had the tappets done, a new throttle cable and position sensors. On all these occasions the car was rigged up to a computer and tuned.
I have been thinking about these problems and my current thoughts are.
1. Take the car to an exhaust specialist and see if they can fix the resonance by adding more support. Does anyone know of such a place anywhere near Guildford ?
2. I recently changed the battery. When I did this I had to remove the air pod from the side of the engine.
If the seal around this is no longer very good air could be being sucked up the sides. This could be the cause of my spluttering. Any comments on this theory would be appreciated.
Finally if all this fails I think I will have to find a nice high cliff to drive it off.
Cheers
Simon.
This was welded up and put back. The problems started after this. I have taken it to 4 different places to check on the exhaust mounting and none of them could see a problem.
The coughing is not the burning of fuel dumped in the exhaust this is more of a splutter. It is more noticable at slow speeds, say 40 in 3rd. With my foot off the clutch the car kangaroos up the road. As I said I have had the tappets done, a new throttle cable and position sensors. On all these occasions the car was rigged up to a computer and tuned.
I have been thinking about these problems and my current thoughts are.
1. Take the car to an exhaust specialist and see if they can fix the resonance by adding more support. Does anyone know of such a place anywhere near Guildford ?
2. I recently changed the battery. When I did this I had to remove the air pod from the side of the engine.
If the seal around this is no longer very good air could be being sucked up the sides. This could be the cause of my spluttering. Any comments on this theory would be appreciated.
Finally if all this fails I think I will have to find a nice high cliff to drive it off.
Cheers
Simon.
I took the car to Andy a couple of weeks ago. He says there is nothing that can be done about the resonance except for changing the clutch.He changed the throttle cable to try and get rid of the spluttering. He also looked at the engine on the computer and could not find a problem.
I asked again about the resonance when I left. He suggested going to an exhaust specialist.
I spoke to him the other day about the air box and he seemed quite sure that this has got nothing to do with my spluttering.
I guess he really puts both down to design problems. "Is what they do"
he says.
Thing is I rarely take the car out because I am so P****D off with it.
If this is just how they are I will never have another.
I asked again about the resonance when I left. He suggested going to an exhaust specialist.
I spoke to him the other day about the air box and he seemed quite sure that this has got nothing to do with my spluttering.
I guess he really puts both down to design problems. "Is what they do"
he says.
Thing is I rarely take the car out because I am so P****D off with it.
If this is just how they are I will never have another.
Simon.
I'm not sure if this would help but have you had the engine running while it's up on the ramps. Not the most sensible thing to do with the car but can you simulate the problem without the car moving?
If its really bothering you and you can simulate this some how, I offer you use of my two post ramp. I'm not too far from you at Brands Hatch and you can have it up on the lift as long as it takes for you to locate it.
I'm not sure if this would help but have you had the engine running while it's up on the ramps. Not the most sensible thing to do with the car but can you simulate the problem without the car moving?
If its really bothering you and you can simulate this some how, I offer you use of my two post ramp. I'm not too far from you at Brands Hatch and you can have it up on the lift as long as it takes for you to locate it.
simonhaynes said:
What a fantastic offer thanks. I have never done anything like this. Are you suggesting running the engine and going through the gears until I get the vibration ?
That is a little dangerous to say the least. What can be done is to run/rev the engine to see if there is vibration and where it is coming from.
We could slowly creep up on it, but wheels revolving with suspension down to the limit and no load is unlikely to simulate real driving.
I rekon we could have the engine running while up on the ramp. Have to be careful as the torque from blipping the engine may move the car about. Certainly the torque from having the wheels revolving may make the car unstable. Dont know I havn't tried it with my cerb. Did they do this while it was in the garage?
If it was the only way to get it sorted we could take the wheels off and fasten the frame of the car to the ramp supports. The amount of risk we are willing to try depends on you, me, a cup of tea while we look at the problem.
At the very least you would have a lot more time to play with checking your car out than in a conventional garage.
I rekon we could have the engine running while up on the ramp. Have to be careful as the torque from blipping the engine may move the car about. Certainly the torque from having the wheels revolving may make the car unstable. Dont know I havn't tried it with my cerb. Did they do this while it was in the garage?
If it was the only way to get it sorted we could take the wheels off and fasten the frame of the car to the ramp supports. The amount of risk we are willing to try depends on you, me, a cup of tea while we look at the problem.
At the very least you would have a lot more time to play with checking your car out than in a conventional garage.
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