Mick Mannock and James McCudden AIr Aces - Timewatch
Discussion
Good programme. They mentioned our top 2 aces dying in July 1918, in fact the top 3 British aces all died during that month. Mannock, McCudden and McElroy. Andrew Beauchamp-Proctor listed as 3rd RFC Ace was South African and survived the war.
They numbers of kills they registered in such short periods of time brings home the conditions and life expectancy of WWI pilots.
They numbers of kills they registered in such short periods of time brings home the conditions and life expectancy of WWI pilots.
DIW35 said:
Seemed highly ironic to me that McCudden, after flying and fighting for three years, when the life expectancy of pilots was just 11 days, succumbed to a stupid accident.
Great piece of television.
I believe it was overconfidence, the cause of a lot of accidents. I missed the programme - the Timewatch I saw was avout some medieval hall - how did that happen?Great piece of television.
cardigankid said:
DIW35 said:
Seemed highly ironic to me that McCudden, after flying and fighting for three years, when the life expectancy of pilots was just 11 days, succumbed to a stupid accident.
Great piece of television.
I believe it was overconfidence, the cause of a lot of accidents. I missed the programme - the Timewatch I saw was avout some medieval hall - how did that happen?Great piece of television.
They seemed to point Mannock's death as behavior brought on my his mental health... hardly surprising really.
They never knew what caused Mannock's crash, as I understand, but another member of his flight saw flames, and Mannock habitually flew with a revolver to shoot himself rather than go down in flames, and it may be that this was what he ultimately did.
It saddens me to see what has been done with the legacy these great men died for.
It saddens me to see what has been done with the legacy these great men died for.
It's also on iPlayer - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jj523/Time...
Eric Mc said:
Anyone watch this last night on BBC 2? An excellent programme and an opportunity to reaquaint the British public with the two British air aces who came closes to matching Manfred Von Richthofen in WW1.
It's viewable at the momment on the BBC iPlayer.
I recorded it, but not got round to watching it so I have not read this thread.It's viewable at the momment on the BBC iPlayer.
Edited by Tony 1234 on Sunday 22 March 14:14
Mannock was actually Irish (born in Co. Cork). His dad was Scottish and his mum was Engliah. His birthplace was in Cork because his father was a seargent in the Army and was based there at the time.
He is, technically, Ireland's greatest air ace but is virtually unknown in his home country.
He's not that well known over here these days either but here in Farnborough, the bitrthplace of the SE5A, a full size replica of his actual plane hangs from the roof of Princes Mead shopping centre. The plane was there for about 15 years before an information plaque was set up to explain its history to passers by.
He is, technically, Ireland's greatest air ace but is virtually unknown in his home country.
He's not that well known over here these days either but here in Farnborough, the bitrthplace of the SE5A, a full size replica of his actual plane hangs from the roof of Princes Mead shopping centre. The plane was there for about 15 years before an information plaque was set up to explain its history to passers by.
FourWheelDrift said:
Simpo Two said:
The other great ace was Albert Ball, who was brought down by ground fire (as indeed was Richtofen).
May 1917 with 44 victories at the time the highest Allied ace, if he had survived he might have been the top ace of WWI.On a vaguely related theme, there is a great article on the Telegraph at the moment about the British influence on the Top Gun School
I particularly like the following:
"Lord's expertise was so well regarded that he was asked to give lectures to US fighter pilots all along the West Coast.
While the former Royal Navy officer, who married his British wife at Miramar, said he enjoyed the film he did not recognise the characters until his wife told him that the big-talking naval fighter pilots were most accurately depicted.
Although the British did their best to fit in their humour prevailed. Rather than call signs of Viper and Maverick they came up with Dogbreath, Alien and Cholmondley"
I particularly like the following:
"Lord's expertise was so well regarded that he was asked to give lectures to US fighter pilots all along the West Coast.
While the former Royal Navy officer, who married his British wife at Miramar, said he enjoyed the film he did not recognise the characters until his wife told him that the big-talking naval fighter pilots were most accurately depicted.
Although the British did their best to fit in their humour prevailed. Rather than call signs of Viper and Maverick they came up with Dogbreath, Alien and Cholmondley"
IIRC they said,
Of the 14,000 allied pilots lost in WW1 8,000 were kileed in training.
The average life expectancy of pilot at the front lines was 11 days.
Very shocking statistics. At the end of the day Mannock and McCudden were just two of the poor sods who died in the muddy madness.
(E&OE)
Of the 14,000 allied pilots lost in WW1 8,000 were kileed in training.
The average life expectancy of pilot at the front lines was 11 days.
Very shocking statistics. At the end of the day Mannock and McCudden were just two of the poor sods who died in the muddy madness.
(E&OE)
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