Cargo Plane Crashes in Japan
Discussion
ahem ...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... & Montana plane crashes
was a nasty one though,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... & Montana plane crashes
was a nasty one though,
Mattt said:
Pretty dramatic (and unfortunate).It seems to me that many of the DC-10/MD-11 family, whenever they make a bad landing, seem to end up rolling on to their backs and disintegrating.
Mattt said:
That video is actually the second touchdown after it bounced. It's probably easier to understand the nature of the crash when the entire landing sequence is viewed.Am totally amazed by this! Am thinking the video footage doesn't tell the whole story, and it looks like that he is someway down the runway when he crashes.
Even in strong winds/cross winds you wouldn't have a 'nose down' attitude like on the video....Your approach would be a tad quicker etc...Am thinking something has happened over the runway threshold then it all goes pear shaped a few hundred meters down the runway....Maybe his airspeed has bled away and the video captures a full on stall...
The scary thing about this type of aircraft (I think!) is its XWC limit (cross wind component) Manual figure of 35 knots..But I believe some airlines operate a much lower SOP..says around 11 knots? There must have been other factors other than the wind etc.
Very Sad.
Even in strong winds/cross winds you wouldn't have a 'nose down' attitude like on the video....Your approach would be a tad quicker etc...Am thinking something has happened over the runway threshold then it all goes pear shaped a few hundred meters down the runway....Maybe his airspeed has bled away and the video captures a full on stall...
The scary thing about this type of aircraft (I think!) is its XWC limit (cross wind component) Manual figure of 35 knots..But I believe some airlines operate a much lower SOP..says around 11 knots? There must have been other factors other than the wind etc.
Very Sad.
Edited by forza whites on Monday 23 March 09:08
Edited by forza whites on Monday 23 March 09:09
Not sure about a stall being the initial cause of this crash. It was vaguely reminiscent of what happened at Sioux City where the touchdown speed and rate of descent was too high (not through any fault of the crew) which caused the plane to bounce. roll over and disintegrate. There was also a Chima Airlines MD-11 accident at Kek Lok airport where a similar bounce and overturn occured
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5te5Yp0_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5te5Yp0_8
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 23 March 09:14
Sioux City disaster a total different scenario as they had no hydraulics or ability to steer/control the aircraft.
This particular crash seems to have started someway before the video rolled.....He is definetely some distance down the run way...
No matter how strong the winds you wouldn't make an approach with a nose down attitude as captured on the video...
This particular crash seems to have started someway before the video rolled.....He is definetely some distance down the run way...
No matter how strong the winds you wouldn't make an approach with a nose down attitude as captured on the video...
The full video of the crash showing how it starts can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6cMK9LUnzI (about 30 secs in)
Steve
Steve
forza whites said:
Sioux City disaster a total different scenario as they had no hydraulics or ability to steer/control the aircraft.
This particular crash seems to have started someway before the video rolled.....He is definetely some distance down the run way...
No matter how strong the winds you wouldn't make an approach with a nose down attitude as captured on the video...
It's amazing how people fail to grasp what I was trying to say sometimes (it could be me not being clear). This particular crash seems to have started someway before the video rolled.....He is definetely some distance down the run way...
No matter how strong the winds you wouldn't make an approach with a nose down attitude as captured on the video...
For a start, I was not saying this accident was caused by the same problems that afflicted the Sioux City DC-10 (a related aircraft type). What I was doing was drawing a comparison between the Sioux City accident, the Chek Lok accident and this one because they all featured a very heavy landing followed by a serious bounce and roll over of the aircraft - resulting in break up and fire.
ALL of these accidents have featured this phenomenon and I wonder is there some aspect of the undercarriage system of the DC-10/MD-11 family of aircraft which causes heavy landings to result in these types of accidents.
I can't recall any other landing accident involving other types of wide-body airliner which resulted in this roll over and break up.
The longer video shows that the crash happened after a serious bounce which must have been down to a very heavy initial landing. The investigators will be searching for the cause of the very heavy landing as the prime cause of the accident (wind speed and direction will probably be a key factor in this crash). However, my concern is over the crashworthiness of the basic DC-10/MD-11 design. With DC-10/MD-11 crashes, when the crew find themselves in a bad situation, it often seems to result in a serious crash where with otherwise might not have been so disastrous. The DC-10/MD-11 airframe seems to be very unforgiving.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 23 March 10:26
[quote=Eric Mc However, my concern is over the crashworthiness of the basic DC-10/MD-11 design. With DC-10/MD-11 crashes, when the crew find themselves in a bad situation, it often seems to result in a serious crash where with otherwise might not have been so disastrous. The DC-10/MD-11 airframe seems to be very unforgiving.
[/quote]
The front wheel strut looks like to have held and thus rebound the aircraft. If the frunt strut was designed to collapse in a controled manner would this have helped prevent the rebound and a more controlled crash onto the main body and crumple rather than the massive rebound and twisting.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 23 March 10:26
[/quote]
The front wheel strut looks like to have held and thus rebound the aircraft. If the frunt strut was designed to collapse in a controled manner would this have helped prevent the rebound and a more controlled crash onto the main body and crumple rather than the massive rebound and twisting.
Edited by superlightr on Monday 23 March 13:48
Eric Mc said:
forza whites said:
Sioux City disaster a total different scenario as they had no hydraulics or ability to steer/control the aircraft.
This particular crash seems to have started someway before the video rolled.....He is definetely some distance down the run way...
No matter how strong the winds you wouldn't make an approach with a nose down attitude as captured on the video...
It's amazing how people fail to grasp what I was trying to say sometimes (it could be me not being clear). This particular crash seems to have started someway before the video rolled.....He is definetely some distance down the run way...
No matter how strong the winds you wouldn't make an approach with a nose down attitude as captured on the video...
For a start, I was not saying this accident was caused by the same problems that afflicted the Sioux City DC-10 (a related aircraft type). What I was doing was drawing a comparison between the Sioux City accident, the Chek Lok accident and this one because they all featured a very heavy landing followed by a serious bounce and roll over of the aircraft - resulting in break up and fire.
ALL of these accidents have featured this phenomenon and I wonder is there some aspect of the undercarriage system of the DC-10/MD-11 family of aircraft which causes heavy landings to result in these types of accidents.
I can't recall any other landing accident involving other types of wide-body airliner which resulted in this roll over and break up.
The longer video shows that the crash happened after a serious bounce which must have been down to a very heavy initial landing. The investigators will be searching for the cause of the very heavy landing as the prime cause of the accident (wind speed and direction will probably be a key factor in this crash). However, my concern is over the crashworthiness of the basic DC-10/MD-11 design. With DC-10/MD-11 crashes, when the crew find themselves in a bad situation, it often seems to result in a serious crash where with otherwise might not have been so disastrous. The DC-10/MD-11 airframe seems to be very unforgiving.
Edited by Eric Mc on Monday 23 March 10:26
Eric,
I dont think the main wheels touched down in the Souix City accident. From what I understand the right wing dropped and impacted the runway and the aircraft cart wheeled.
Mind you they did an amazing job getting that far, that aircraft should have been a smoking hole in the ground!
I dont think the main wheels touched down in the Souix City accident. From what I understand the right wing dropped and impacted the runway and the aircraft cart wheeled.
Mind you they did an amazing job getting that far, that aircraft should have been a smoking hole in the ground!
Edited by jonnyb on Monday 23 March 14:16
Mattt said:
Was it full of rubber dog Sh=t and flown by Tom Cruise. 
Road2Ruin said:
Mattt said:
Was it full of rubber dog Sh=t and flown by Tom Cruise. jonnyb said:
Eric,
I dont think the main wheels touched down in the Souix City accident. From what I understand the right wing dropped and impacted the runway and the aircraft cart wheeled.
Mind you they did an amazing job getting that far, that aircraft should have been a smoking hole in the ground!
I dont think the main wheels touched down in the Souix City accident. From what I understand the right wing dropped and impacted the runway and the aircraft cart wheeled.
Mind you they did an amazing job getting that far, that aircraft should have been a smoking hole in the ground!
Edited by jonnyb on Monday 23 March 14:16
said:
On final descent, the aircraft was going 240 knots and sinking at 1850 feet per minute, while a safe landing would require 140 knots and 300 feet per minute. The aircraft began to sink faster while on final approach and veer to the right. The tip of the right wing hit the runway first, spilling fuel which ignited immediately. The tail section broke off from the force of the impact and the rest of the aircraft bounced several times, shedding the landing gear and engine nacelles and breaking the fuselage into several main pieces. On the final impact the right wing was sheared off and the main part of the aircraft skidded sideways, rolled over on to its back, and slid to a stop upside down on the right side of runway 22. Witnesses reported that the aircraft cartwheeled but the investigation did not confirm this.[3] News reports that the aircraft cartwheeled were due to misinterpretation of the video of the crash that showed the flaming right wing tumbling end-over-end.
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