purchasing advice XJ6
Discussion
Hi i ve always wanted an x300/x308 Jag, and im finally looking to purchase one in the next couple of months. i would preferably want a manual car, seen a few every now and again, but wouldnt rule out an auto. i was just wondering what to look out for, and how does the 6 compare to the v8s in terms or reliability and mpg.
any input would be appreciated
any input would be appreciated
There are a few manual XJ3 (X300s) but they are very rare. Back in period they weren't very popular, particularly with the dealer network. I bought my XJ6 back in 96 when the car was 18months old, and back then manuals were worth about 20% less than autos and the dealers I spoke to were reluctant to take them in, PX only.
The XJ6s are generally regarded as being much more reliable than the V8s (X308). They are also considered easier to work on especially at for the DIY owner.
The V8s are going to be more fuel efficient.
For the 6s, perversly the 4L is probably more economical that the 3.2L. Of course the X300 also has the option for the 6L V12, which will drink like a fish but is sublime.
The XJ6s are generally regarded as being much more reliable than the V8s (X308). They are also considered easier to work on especially at for the DIY owner.
The V8s are going to be more fuel efficient.
For the 6s, perversly the 4L is probably more economical that the 3.2L. Of course the X300 also has the option for the 6L V12, which will drink like a fish but is sublime.
Although similar in apperance and paper spec there is a world of difference in terms of refinement and driving dynamics between the two models. The V8 is lighter, stiffer and has a far better engine and gearbox then the straight 6 car.
I've owned 3.2 versions of both and found that although the fuel consumption between the two was similar the V8 is a far more satisfying and responsive car to drive. In the real world it's much, much quicker too - fully loaded the 3.2 6cyl often struggled on hills the V8 just surges up. All other things being equal the V8 is certainly the better choice IMO.
Although the V8 has gained a reputation for being unreliable, both cars are now at an age where individual condition is far more relevent than model reptation. Most of the problems older V8s suffer from are due to inadequate maintainence rather than inherent faults - timing chain tensioners and waterpumps excepted.
The most important thing is to buy solely on condition and history. It's essential to find a really well cared for example, and be prepared to spend a few quid on a full fluid change. Jaguar's service schedule is sadly lacking in what used only a few years ago be considered essential maintainence.
If you can DIY then the 6 cyl car is certainly easier to work on and is generally more able to withstand neglect and abuse, but the V8 is not as fragile as some people suggest or as impossible to work on either.
Spares are generally cheaper for the 6 cyl car.
Find Broardbean747s post on here - it's a definative guide to buying an XJ8.
Buy a really good example from an enthusiast and take care of it (PH or jagads is a good place to start) - not some shagged out, stone rashed px wreck on a dealers forecourt.
These are big heavy cars and are hard on suspension and steering components, look at and feel all the tyres for odd wear patterns. Check for rust behind the front shocks and rear wheelarches, ensure everything works, take it for a long drive before you buy and listen very carefully for odd noises and rough gearchanges. If you're not happy walk away - the right car will be there but it will certainly take some finding and if you've looked at several before you'll know it when you see it.
Don't whatever you do buy a manual - which you'll only find on the 6 cyl cars. I've driven lorries with a nicer change and lighter clutch than the Getrag 265 gearbox.
I've owned 3.2 versions of both and found that although the fuel consumption between the two was similar the V8 is a far more satisfying and responsive car to drive. In the real world it's much, much quicker too - fully loaded the 3.2 6cyl often struggled on hills the V8 just surges up. All other things being equal the V8 is certainly the better choice IMO.
Although the V8 has gained a reputation for being unreliable, both cars are now at an age where individual condition is far more relevent than model reptation. Most of the problems older V8s suffer from are due to inadequate maintainence rather than inherent faults - timing chain tensioners and waterpumps excepted.
The most important thing is to buy solely on condition and history. It's essential to find a really well cared for example, and be prepared to spend a few quid on a full fluid change. Jaguar's service schedule is sadly lacking in what used only a few years ago be considered essential maintainence.
If you can DIY then the 6 cyl car is certainly easier to work on and is generally more able to withstand neglect and abuse, but the V8 is not as fragile as some people suggest or as impossible to work on either.
Spares are generally cheaper for the 6 cyl car.
Find Broardbean747s post on here - it's a definative guide to buying an XJ8.
Buy a really good example from an enthusiast and take care of it (PH or jagads is a good place to start) - not some shagged out, stone rashed px wreck on a dealers forecourt.
These are big heavy cars and are hard on suspension and steering components, look at and feel all the tyres for odd wear patterns. Check for rust behind the front shocks and rear wheelarches, ensure everything works, take it for a long drive before you buy and listen very carefully for odd noises and rough gearchanges. If you're not happy walk away - the right car will be there but it will certainly take some finding and if you've looked at several before you'll know it when you see it.
Don't whatever you do buy a manual - which you'll only find on the 6 cyl cars. I've driven lorries with a nicer change and lighter clutch than the Getrag 265 gearbox.
I've recently bought an '95 4 litre Sovereign as I fancied a luxury barge to compliment my Griff 500, and I have to say I'm really enjoy the car, smooth, quiet , very comfortable and to my eyes pretty stylish too. It as a lot in common with the TVR in terms of cabin feel they come for the same trad leather and wood stable, one thing you may be suprised by is the lack of interior space for such a large car it's tiny inside, I suppose you could call it 'snug' but to my mind its cramped.
As Steve said these cars X300/X308 are all pretty long in the tooth so S/H and overall condition are what should be focusing on. The X300s suffer from rust on the rear arches (cosmetic), more serious is the bulkhead, there's a seam that runs the width of the car (roughly at brake master cyl level) if this is rotten I'd walk away (rapidly), also check under the rear lights (mine was rotted through here), they also so seem to have issues with the clear coat flaking off, (I've repainted the boot lid and have a few more minor areas to deal with).
I'd also avoid the manual gearbox, it simply doesn't suit the car, the car is all about ease of driving and smoothness the auto box suit this style perfectly.
I went for the straight 6 over the V8 because I like to work on my cars and the 6 is old school you can still deal with most issue with a decent tool kit and a multi meter, the V8 is a lot more computerised and not really suitable for tinkering on the drive of a Sunday.
I hope you find a great car, with plenty of cars out there you should be able to find a cracker.
As Steve said these cars X300/X308 are all pretty long in the tooth so S/H and overall condition are what should be focusing on. The X300s suffer from rust on the rear arches (cosmetic), more serious is the bulkhead, there's a seam that runs the width of the car (roughly at brake master cyl level) if this is rotten I'd walk away (rapidly), also check under the rear lights (mine was rotted through here), they also so seem to have issues with the clear coat flaking off, (I've repainted the boot lid and have a few more minor areas to deal with).
I'd also avoid the manual gearbox, it simply doesn't suit the car, the car is all about ease of driving and smoothness the auto box suit this style perfectly.
I went for the straight 6 over the V8 because I like to work on my cars and the 6 is old school you can still deal with most issue with a decent tool kit and a multi meter, the V8 is a lot more computerised and not really suitable for tinkering on the drive of a Sunday.
I hope you find a great car, with plenty of cars out there you should be able to find a cracker.
budd said:
one thing you may be suprised by is the lack of interior space for such a large car it's tiny inside, I suppose you could call it 'snug' but to my mind its cramped.
The basic layout goes back the original XJ6 from the late 60s, so packaging is not the most efficient by modern standards. Hence Clarkson's cruel joke about Douglas Bader complaining about the rear legroom. I must say that the only people that have ever complained about the room in the back of my were the kids and they were complaining that they couldn't stretch their legs out straight in front of them!On the other hand the cabin's are wide. There is over 4" more shoulder room in the Jag than the misses' E-Class Merc.
Just look out for a good one.
My kids are only 3yrs old and 5 months so rear leg room isn't problem infact its a big improvement over the nissan turbo I had before the Jag, my main problem is headroom in the front, even with the seat set to its lowest I'm still very close to th roof, I guess the sunroof takes a bit of space so if your taller than 6 ft it may be wise to chose one without the sunroof.
That said it always amazes me how low the car is, when walking back to it in car parks it looks so cool all hunkered down and mean next to the 'normal' cars with their high roof lines , so all in all I'll live with the lack of headroom and enjoy it's low sleek lines.
That said it always amazes me how low the car is, when walking back to it in car parks it looks so cool all hunkered down and mean next to the 'normal' cars with their high roof lines , so all in all I'll live with the lack of headroom and enjoy it's low sleek lines.
i like it being low, one reason i like the x300 shape compared to the new xj. i d be more interested in hearing about consumption of the xj6 over the v8 do you all agree with the comment that consumption is similar between those engines? also the consensus is to go for an auto but i must at least testdrive the manual car just to see how it feels
Well my X300 3.2 Sport Auto does about 18MPG pottering about locally. On a Motorway run it does about 23. Drive like a nunn and I've seen 28, but don't expect to see that normally. A cross country commute hits about 20. But hey, the Misses last company car was a VW Passat and that only used to return about 22MPG so I never felt the Jag was too bad.
Fuel consumption will depened more on where and how you drive it rather than differences between either the 3.2/4.0l or whether it's a straight 6 or V8.
As a general guide expect around 26/28 on the motorway cruise, similar or a bit less on a touring weekend away - providing you stay out of towns (and Wales). You'll get around 16/20 in light urban trafic and a LOT less if you nail it everywhere.
The very best I ever got out of my 6 cyl 3.2 was an indicated 34MPG average and on the same journey the V8 managed just over 32. That was driving at a steady 60 on a long motorway journey in the middle of the night, resetting the computer once I was up to speed.
Not that I'm sad about it you understand
, just curious to see what it could do under optimimum conditions.
The manual will be better on fuel then the auto as 5th gear is a higher ratio than 4th on the auto 'box and there's no torque converter slip in the intermediate gears either. If you can find one by all means have a drive to see what you think. IMO manuals are horrible - the balance of pedal effort is all wrong, the 'boxes get noisy with age, the clutch weighs a ton and the change is agricultural.
The 6 cyl engine has plenty of torque but unlike some other straight 6s is a bit reluctant to rev high and gets harsh at high rpm too so there's little point in having a manual and winding it up to the red line through the gears. It's much better suited to an automatic 'box.
Comments in the press when the X300 was released suggested the only reason manuals were produced at all was to offer a base spec model and to improve the fuel consumption figures a bit.
As a general guide expect around 26/28 on the motorway cruise, similar or a bit less on a touring weekend away - providing you stay out of towns (and Wales). You'll get around 16/20 in light urban trafic and a LOT less if you nail it everywhere.
The very best I ever got out of my 6 cyl 3.2 was an indicated 34MPG average and on the same journey the V8 managed just over 32. That was driving at a steady 60 on a long motorway journey in the middle of the night, resetting the computer once I was up to speed.
Not that I'm sad about it you understand
, just curious to see what it could do under optimimum conditions.The manual will be better on fuel then the auto as 5th gear is a higher ratio than 4th on the auto 'box and there's no torque converter slip in the intermediate gears either. If you can find one by all means have a drive to see what you think. IMO manuals are horrible - the balance of pedal effort is all wrong, the 'boxes get noisy with age, the clutch weighs a ton and the change is agricultural.
The 6 cyl engine has plenty of torque but unlike some other straight 6s is a bit reluctant to rev high and gets harsh at high rpm too so there's little point in having a manual and winding it up to the red line through the gears. It's much better suited to an automatic 'box.
Comments in the press when the X300 was released suggested the only reason manuals were produced at all was to offer a base spec model and to improve the fuel consumption figures a bit.
Edited by Jaguar steve on Tuesday 24th March 15:07
Edited by Jaguar steve on Tuesday 24th March 15:30
Thanks for all your input from what I gather the main thing is buy on condition and history and both 6 or v8 cars have got their pros and cons.
What about an xjr6 as this would eliviate the performance disadvantage over the v8. Are these cars as reliable as the standard str6 cars and are there any manuals ? Also I'm thinking of going for or converting to lpg as due to my work I am doing lots of continental trips. Any thoughts here?
What about an xjr6 as this would eliviate the performance disadvantage over the v8. Are these cars as reliable as the standard str6 cars and are there any manuals ? Also I'm thinking of going for or converting to lpg as due to my work I am doing lots of continental trips. Any thoughts here?
The XJR6 isn't as powerful as the XJR8. IMHO the ride of the XJR6 isn't as good as that in the XJ6 Sport. The other XJ6's are softer, my preference was for the "Sports" ride/handling compromise.
When the XJR8 came out, the reviews in the rags said the ride was better in the V8 version than it had been in the XJR6.
When the XJR8 came out, the reviews in the rags said the ride was better in the V8 version than it had been in the XJR6.
There are some XJR6 manuals but IIRC the manual option on all the 6 cyl cars was a pretty rare choice most likley due to the reasons already posted.
A hard driven XJR - either 6 or 8 - will use more fuel than you can ever imagine and will shred tyres too. The other disadvantage is that the supercharged cars were intended and bought to be driven hard - if they have had a hard life then there's a pretty good chance most examples you'll find now will be shagged out and will potentially need thousands spent to bring them back up to spec.
Unless you're absolutely certain you've found a good XJR I'd leave well alone, If you're still not convinced then the 6 cyl is probrably a better choice out of the two - simply because it's a more robust design and not so edgy as the 8, but really you need to spend some time looking very, very hard before you part with the beer tokens.
Take a n/a V8 out for a drive. You might be surprised how quick even the 3.2 feels when you push it. Unlike the 6 cyls, the V8s come on the cams at around 4k and pull like a train right round to the redline. The gearbox and engine interface on the 8s is the best I've ever experienced in any car too, with quick clean upchanges even on full throttle and predictable and controllable part throttle downchanges as well. Apparently
A hard driven XJR - either 6 or 8 - will use more fuel than you can ever imagine and will shred tyres too. The other disadvantage is that the supercharged cars were intended and bought to be driven hard - if they have had a hard life then there's a pretty good chance most examples you'll find now will be shagged out and will potentially need thousands spent to bring them back up to spec.
Unless you're absolutely certain you've found a good XJR I'd leave well alone, If you're still not convinced then the 6 cyl is probrably a better choice out of the two - simply because it's a more robust design and not so edgy as the 8, but really you need to spend some time looking very, very hard before you part with the beer tokens.
Take a n/a V8 out for a drive. You might be surprised how quick even the 3.2 feels when you push it. Unlike the 6 cyls, the V8s come on the cams at around 4k and pull like a train right round to the redline. The gearbox and engine interface on the 8s is the best I've ever experienced in any car too, with quick clean upchanges even on full throttle and predictable and controllable part throttle downchanges as well. Apparently
6 cylinder 3.2s have a mechanical gearbox, it is the only disappointing aspect of the car IMHO.
Coming from a TVR the Jags won't seem that quick. But for most people even the 3.2 XJ6 is quick. An old mate has a 735, it's loads slower than my XJ6 and needs a lot more revs to do anything. One of the guys I work for had a 740, that was evenly matched to my Jag in perf terms as far as either of us could tell.
Coming from a TVR the Jags won't seem that quick. But for most people even the 3.2 XJ6 is quick. An old mate has a 735, it's loads slower than my XJ6 and needs a lot more revs to do anything. One of the guys I work for had a 740, that was evenly matched to my Jag in perf terms as far as either of us could tell.
I've had an XJR6 for about 18 months or so now, I love it. I paid a bit of a premium I think - £5K, but it had 33K miles, near mint condition (one or two very small scuffs, but no rust whatsoever, service history, and in the Turquoise metallic which is far and away my favourite X300 colour. I was happy to pay that because it is the perfect Jag for me - favourite shape, model, colour, low mileage and top condition. So I plan to keep it for a very long time. It now has just over 37K miles and hasn't missed a beat once. It hasn't used any oil or been even slightly temperamental. It does have a firmer ride than many would expect from a Jag saloon, and it really does like a drink - more than I expected. But that's fine, I didn't buy it for economy.
Not sure I completely agree that many XJR's will have been hammered though. Certainly, it's very quick if you want it to be, but with 322 BHP it should be. Mine's an auto, and to get the best performance you need to select sport mode - otherwise it's more reluctant to change down and give of it's best. My point here is that I almost never bother doing this or giving it much beans. The fuel consumption has a surprisingly sobering effect on the need for speed, and it doesn't feel like a car you want to race about in anyway - it's a big Jag, and gets driven like one rather than a like sports car. To me the XJR is the best looking, and it's nice to have the power there for the odd occasion when you want to stretch it's legs. The potential problems on early V8s have been well documented, and was the main reason I went for the 6, which is well known to be bulletproof. I know a local dealer who, on hearing from a friend I had bought a 90's XJR said he hoped it wasn't a V8 - he'd had to refund a customer on one of these and scrap the car - the nikasil problem was the reason.
Not sure I completely agree that many XJR's will have been hammered though. Certainly, it's very quick if you want it to be, but with 322 BHP it should be. Mine's an auto, and to get the best performance you need to select sport mode - otherwise it's more reluctant to change down and give of it's best. My point here is that I almost never bother doing this or giving it much beans. The fuel consumption has a surprisingly sobering effect on the need for speed, and it doesn't feel like a car you want to race about in anyway - it's a big Jag, and gets driven like one rather than a like sports car. To me the XJR is the best looking, and it's nice to have the power there for the odd occasion when you want to stretch it's legs. The potential problems on early V8s have been well documented, and was the main reason I went for the 6, which is well known to be bulletproof. I know a local dealer who, on hearing from a friend I had bought a 90's XJR said he hoped it wasn't a V8 - he'd had to refund a customer on one of these and scrap the car - the nikasil problem was the reason.
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