T350 as good as a Sagaris?
Discussion
Both are dropping in price at the moment.
For those who think the Sagaris is a little OTT (I constantly waver between the two categories myself!), what can be done to a T350 to make it as good as Sagaris on track and day to day?
I have had dealers tell me that a Sagaris is easier to live with day to day and usually grounds less, hence the "day to day" bit of the question above. I find that hard to believe considering it is the "racier" car - but hey, I am sure the dealer wasn't just trying to sell
. What do you think the better daily runner is?
You can pick up a nice T350 for 20k. Just wondering out aloud if there are modifications that can be made to a T350 that cost less than picking a Sagaris up for (usually) 10k more, but give it the same bite?
Also, very random question and just a thought. I have seen a Sagaris front end on a T350. Anyone done or seen a T350 front end on a Sagaris?
For those who think the Sagaris is a little OTT (I constantly waver between the two categories myself!), what can be done to a T350 to make it as good as Sagaris on track and day to day?
I have had dealers tell me that a Sagaris is easier to live with day to day and usually grounds less, hence the "day to day" bit of the question above. I find that hard to believe considering it is the "racier" car - but hey, I am sure the dealer wasn't just trying to sell
. What do you think the better daily runner is?You can pick up a nice T350 for 20k. Just wondering out aloud if there are modifications that can be made to a T350 that cost less than picking a Sagaris up for (usually) 10k more, but give it the same bite?
Also, very random question and just a thought. I have seen a Sagaris front end on a T350. Anyone done or seen a T350 front end on a Sagaris?
Edited by AdvocatusD on Tuesday 24th March 15:40
Can of worms has just been opened.
I personally prefer the styling of the T350, aggressive while still a very beautiful car.
The Sag was not an option as the price was too high at the time of purchase. I like the sag because of it aggression, maybe too aggressive, however i just can't get over the rear of the car, it looks unfinished to me. Everyones opinion is different obviously.
As for performance, the 3.6L engine can be rebuilt to a 4Ltr for around 6-7.5k and sag brakes can be fitted using caliper extensions, as for the suspension, correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the suspension the same on the sag/t350? I know the sag has a slightly wider track and some report holds the road better than the t350, but are the same springs and dampers used in both cars??
As for the sag front end on a T350, only one word comes to mind......... why?
I personally prefer the styling of the T350, aggressive while still a very beautiful car.
The Sag was not an option as the price was too high at the time of purchase. I like the sag because of it aggression, maybe too aggressive, however i just can't get over the rear of the car, it looks unfinished to me. Everyones opinion is different obviously.
As for performance, the 3.6L engine can be rebuilt to a 4Ltr for around 6-7.5k and sag brakes can be fitted using caliper extensions, as for the suspension, correct me if i'm wrong but isn't the suspension the same on the sag/t350? I know the sag has a slightly wider track and some report holds the road better than the t350, but are the same springs and dampers used in both cars??
As for the sag front end on a T350, only one word comes to mind......... why?
Edited by smithyl23 on Tuesday 24th March 14:18
My Sagaris will ground on any back road over about 40mph but then again I don`t really drive those sorts of roads...
I looked at converting a T350 to a Sagaris and the costs were to great, in the end I waited a few more months and got myself a Sagaris - never looked back, the extreme looks and nature of it is something few other cars will give you
J
I looked at converting a T350 to a Sagaris and the costs were to great, in the end I waited a few more months and got myself a Sagaris - never looked back, the extreme looks and nature of it is something few other cars will give you
J
Later T350s were pretty sorted, suspension and geometry -wise. But the Sagaris was better, with different mounting points, I believe. And you cannot change it to match exactly as the wider track would have the tyres fouling the T350's bodywork. Same reason no-one has put a T350 nose on a Saggy.
Ride height varied year-to-year, and mine has scraped the nose only a few times on particularly vicious speed 'bumps'.
Ride height varied year-to-year, and mine has scraped the nose only a few times on particularly vicious speed 'bumps'.
How about looking out for red rose T350, which will give similar performance to the Sag and will have the Tuscan S brake upgrade. it should also have the C/R box. Change the suspension components over to better after market ones and I would imagine there would be little difference between the 2 cars in terms of performance / handling.
Having owned both and had each one set up correctly, diff, geometry, shocks etc I can clearly say that the Sag is the more compliant, less nervy piece of kit and the cornering speeds far in excess of the 350 - however a well sorted 350 is one hell of a quick car. I still love the look of the 350, but the Sag feels much roomier inside and on the last Chatsworth trip left a Tamora having to staighten up big time mid apex of motorway switchback.
For me its the Sag - but at £10-£15K less then the 350 is one hell of a car.
For me its the Sag - but at £10-£15K less then the 350 is one hell of a car.
i haven't driven a sag but i love my t350! i am not sure which i prefer on looks, i think the sag looks like it's designed more for the track and is almost a little OTT for the road as it is so crazy... (it is awesome though!)
go for a t350 and save yourself 15K! (you could spend the savings on 1.5 FFF engines or nearly 3 Power engines)
go for a t350 and save yourself 15K! (you could spend the savings on 1.5 FFF engines or nearly 3 Power engines)
bobd said:
Having owned both and had each one set up correctly, diff, geometry, shocks etc I can clearly say that the Sag is the more compliant, less nervy piece of kit and the cornering speeds far in excess of the 350 - however a well sorted 350 is one hell of a quick car. I still love the look of the 350, but the Sag feels much roomier inside and on the last Chatsworth trip left a Tamora having to staighten up big time mid apex of motorway switchback.
For me its the Sag - but at £10-£15K less then the 350 is one hell of a car.
Given that you've owned two correct cars, I'd be interested to know what you mean when you say the Sag is more compliant and less nervy. For me its the Sag - but at £10-£15K less then the 350 is one hell of a car.
There is so much disinformation available from people with opinions and no experience. Are these cars you can confidently throw about in wet weather and on your standard British B road? Is the T350 more prone to biting than the Sagaris? I drive a 944 turbo with some modifications and because of the old school turbo, the power is very on/off. You do need to be careful with it, but you can still have a thrash if it's wet. I would assume the power from the S6 would mean you can light the tyres up quite quickly and without warning.
I think what this thread is saying is that the Sagaris is the superiour car. What I am wondering about is this: with your standard day to day 'spirited' driving by an average driver who attends the odd track day, would you really miss the superiority of the Sagaris?
Slightly different slant. I've owned both T350 and Sag but only tracked the Sag. I don't think anyone really gets to test the theory to the limit on public roads and so the comparison performance and handling wise becomes academic in normal day to day driving. What I will say is that the Sag, despite its mooted deisgn for the track, is ironically a better day to day car IMHO. I find that low end torque is superior so where with the 350 I always needed 2k on the rev's to execute a smooth pull away the Sag is happy at 1k - 1.5. Ride damping is also superior, and I did toy with the idea of trying to replicate this in my 350 before taking the plunge and upgrading - I was told by various people (not just the dealer) that doing so would improve the T350 but never to the point of being indifferent to the Sag. Ride is lower in the Sag and in both I've always been paranoid about humps, but funnily enough the only time I did any paint damage on one was in the T350.
Looks wise I think they are both very attractive cars with much to recommend them individually. Looking back, it cost me 20k-ish to upgrade from a 1 year old T350 to a new Sag - was it worth it, I thought so at the time. I think the fact that the differential is still pretty wide reflects the rarity value of the Sag rather than any objective valuation difference.
Looks wise I think they are both very attractive cars with much to recommend them individually. Looking back, it cost me 20k-ish to upgrade from a 1 year old T350 to a new Sag - was it worth it, I thought so at the time. I think the fact that the differential is still pretty wide reflects the rarity value of the Sag rather than any objective valuation difference.
Sagaris feels much more relaxed doing the same speed either on the track or road. T350 feels a lot more alive, but not nervously so like an early Tuscan. Which one is faster on road or track? Depends who is driving IMO.
Looks wise - each to their own. IMO T350 is the best looking car ever, Sagaris is plain aggressive and in your face and needs bright colours (or black). I just don't see why people drool over the Alfa 8C when TVR did it 5 years earlier. Park a TVR next to the Alfa and see...
Looks wise - each to their own. IMO T350 is the best looking car ever, Sagaris is plain aggressive and in your face and needs bright colours (or black). I just don't see why people drool over the Alfa 8C when TVR did it 5 years earlier. Park a TVR next to the Alfa and see...
Edited by Targarama on Wednesday 25th March 12:32
geordieexpat said:
I love my black Sagaris
Derrick
I love your black sag too.... Derrick
As a totally non-scientific view point from someone who has never owned or diven either... the T350 is a true loud shouty TVR with limits that most owners will never reach, the sagaris is the same but it shouts a little louder!
Paul
Styling apart...
Having driven both and modified my T350 a fair bit over 4yrs, the extra mid-range torque of the 4-litre & higher-spec Bilstein dampers of the Sagaris make it more relaxing on the road. The suspension pick-up points and bumpstops are actually different.
But simply changing the T350 onto good dampers like Nitron 2-ways that can be set for your preference would make it's ride very similar. For occasional trackdays, if on similar tyres, the performance is very similar as the 3.6 revs higher.
A personal choice
Having driven both and modified my T350 a fair bit over 4yrs, the extra mid-range torque of the 4-litre & higher-spec Bilstein dampers of the Sagaris make it more relaxing on the road. The suspension pick-up points and bumpstops are actually different.
But simply changing the T350 onto good dampers like Nitron 2-ways that can be set for your preference would make it's ride very similar. For occasional trackdays, if on similar tyres, the performance is very similar as the 3.6 revs higher.
A personal choice
I had my heart set on a T350 and didn't like the styling of the Sagaris at all.
I test drove a 3.6L T350C (bearing in mind I was coming from a Chimaera 500) and found it nervous, fidgetty, lacking in torque and power (especially torque) and all-round just didn't "connect" with it.
Despite my reservations of the styling, I was persuaded to test drive a Sagaris and instantly connected to it, finding it far more compliant, confidence-inspiring, stable and all-round better in every respect. So I bought it. And the irony is that I have come to love the styling and now see the T350 as a bit bland and anodyne.
Was it worth the extra money? Probably not. Do I love it more than any anything else that I own in the world? You betcha!
I test drove a 3.6L T350C (bearing in mind I was coming from a Chimaera 500) and found it nervous, fidgetty, lacking in torque and power (especially torque) and all-round just didn't "connect" with it.
Despite my reservations of the styling, I was persuaded to test drive a Sagaris and instantly connected to it, finding it far more compliant, confidence-inspiring, stable and all-round better in every respect. So I bought it. And the irony is that I have come to love the styling and now see the T350 as a bit bland and anodyne.
Was it worth the extra money? Probably not. Do I love it more than any anything else that I own in the world? You betcha!
Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 25th March 22:55
I will drop you an email, when you reply, I will send you more photo's!!bobd said:
Having owned both and had each one set up correctly, diff, geometry, shocks etc I can clearly say that the Sag is the more compliant, less nervy piece of kit and the cornering speeds far in excess of the 350 - however a well sorted 350 is one hell of a quick car. I still love the look of the 350, but the Sag feels much roomier inside and on the last Chatsworth trip left a Tamora having to staighten up big time mid apex of motorway switchback.
For me its the Sag - but at £10-£15K less then the 350 is one hell of a car.
Pretty much agree with this prognosis. I've had a Sag and a Tamora which I assume handles very similar to a T350. On track I actually prefered the Tam!For me its the Sag - but at £10-£15K less then the 350 is one hell of a car.
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