Ecclestone in move on Brawn

[dafeller]

Despite the recent management buyout-out and the 2009 car's sterling test pace, the future of Brawn GP reportedly remains under a very dark cloud.

In the decisions of the World Council meeting earlier this month, it was noted that despite the Brackley-based team simply requesting a name-change, Brawn would in fact be considered a 'new entry' for this season.

"The contract the team had with the FIA was to run as 'Honda', which they are no longer in a position to do," the FIA said.

Outwardly, the technicality has resulted in Brawn shifting to the very bottom of the pitlane, and being assigned the lowest race numbers for 2009.

But we noted last week that new teams usually must wait to receive full revenue entitlements according to F1's commercial agreements.

It is on this point that the Swiss specialist publication Motorsport Aktuell expresses concerns about the survival of the Mercedes-powered team. It claims that Brawn could not simply change its name to Brawn, therefore keeping Honda's financial status, because while the teams unanimously agreed, Bernie Ecclestone exercised his veto.



Brawn is therefore missing about 22 million (euro) of its projected 2009 budget, in a state of affairs that could date back to a news item in February.

[Nic Jones]

Another sign that the mad dwarf is skintos and is trying to pull his purse strings in a bit?

I'd love that poisoned little midget to go bankrupt and live out his days in a council flat in Croydon.

[Mike400]

Bloody hell - less red tape more racing please!

Just give them the cash and let them race to their full potential.

It will do nothing for the Sport if Brawn have to leave / cant reach their potential, not to mention the thousands of jobs related to the team (when you look at suppliers etc)

Sounds like someone is getting worried with how competitive Brawn might be - and are trying to keep them near the bottom of the field by restricting them financially.

Fingers crossed a sponser emerges pretty soon and fills the potential financial void....

[Asterix]

Hmmm - I wonder if this has anything to do with it?

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...

[Derek Smith]

Brawn has shed 300 jobs and made other cuts as well.

Now even I know that a team name change has massive financial implications and one wonders why Brawn didn't seek 'clarification' before buying the team. Unless, of course, he did. But they must be struggling now.

One wonders what their stance has been on the Mossy FiAscos. Did they stick with FOTA? Has it cost them €22m and cost 300 their jobs?

Can you imagine the scene? The teams are sitting around discussing what they are going to do for the Christmas party. "Let's have a piss-up." someone suggests. "If it's in a brewery, don't let Mossy or Eccs organise it then."

That's 300 people who were worried sick about losing their jobs but then were told they were secure. And now they are unemployed. Got to laugh, haven't you.

[groomi]

It was always known that Brawn would have to drastically recude the workforce. Where is the news in this?

[DSM2]

Derek Smith said:

Brawn has shed 300 jobs and made other cuts as well.

Now even I know that a team name change has massive financial implications and one wonders why Brawn didn't seek 'clarification' before buying the team. Unless, of course, he did. But they must be struggling now.

One wonders what their stance has been on the Mossy FiAscos. Did they stick with FOTA? Has it cost them €22m and cost 300 their jobs?

Can you imagine the scene? The teams are sitting around discussing what they are going to do for the Christmas party. "Let's have a piss-up." someone suggests. "If it's in a brewery, don't let Mossy or Eccs organise it then."

That's 300 people who were worried sick about losing their jobs but then were told they were secure. And now they are unemployed. Got to laugh, haven't you.

In fact, everyone in the company knew that substantial numbers would be going in any case, so the redundancies aren't that big a surprise.

A small issue now is that BGP have made very good offers to all staff to volunteer for redundancy, but aren't giving much of an indication of whether one would be chosen or not beforehand. If it's not handled better, there is the risk that the best staff will go.

[andyps]

Or is this another case of the small man saying that if Brawn wouldn't accept his £100m they aren't getting anything else from him either?

[german tony]

That 22 million is available to the other teams to share between them so Bernie gets no benefit from it himself.

As for the 300 people that worked hard to save the team then got made redundent - as Bernie says about Brawn, the man is not to be trusted.

& no I don't think Bernie is a saint.

[skwdenyer]

german tony said:

That 22 million is available to the other teams to share between them so Bernie gets no benefit from it himself.

As for the 300 people that worked hard to save the team then got made redundent - as Bernie says about Brawn, the man is not to be trusted.

& no I don't think Bernie is a saint.

You are kidding, aren't you? Surely? First, everybody knows that a lot of jobs will go under the new rules (no testing, for a start), and still more will go for 2010. Second, those 300 people worked hard on the basis that a chance of a job was better than no job at all.

Who are you, Red Robbo?

[skwdenyer]

dafeller said:

Despite the recent management buyout-out and the 2009 car's sterling test pace, the future of Brawn GP reportedly remains under a very dark cloud.

In the decisions of the World Council meeting earlier this month, it was noted that despite the Brackley-based team simply requesting a name-change, Brawn would in fact be considered a 'new entry' for this season.

"The contract the team had with the FIA was to run as 'Honda', which they are no longer in a position to do," the FIA said.

Outwardly, the technicality has resulted in Brawn shifting to the very bottom of the pitlane, and being assigned the lowest race numbers for 2009.

But we noted last week that new teams usually must wait to receive full revenue entitlements according to F1's commercial agreements.

It is on this point that the Swiss specialist publication Motorsport Aktuell expresses concerns about the survival of the Mercedes-powered team. It claims that Brawn could not simply change its name to Brawn, therefore keeping Honda's financial status, because while the teams unanimously agreed, Bernie Ecclestone exercised his veto.



Brawn is therefore missing about 22 million (euro) of its projected 2009 budget, in a state of affairs that could date back to a news item in February.

That's interesting. When Honda bought the BAR team, did they suffer the same fate? Or is this to do with timing, i.e. that the 2009 entry had already been made as "Honda" and therefore that isn't possible to change?

Anyhow, I thought that part of the whole deal for the buy-out was that BE was advancing 2009 revenues? Some clarification would be nice!

[cj_eds]

Don't new teams have to lodge a massive deposit as some form of guarentee they're turning up? (Money presumably Prodrive lost?). I was suprised that wasn't mentioned when BrawnGP first appeared, although we've never been made aware of that same deposit money changing hands when other teams have been taken over. Don't remember Renault etc being shunted to the back of the garages when they took over Benetton, likewise Red Bull, Force India, Torro Rosso etc etc etc.

Could be cynical, but I wonder if Bernie, Max and Co will find some blackmailing tool to threaten Williams & Toyota with. Would certainly 'diffuse' a certain protest situation that's brewing for Melbourne.

Edited by cj_eds on Wednesday 25th March 13:07

[andygo]

skwdenyer said:

dafeller said:

Despite the recent management buyout-out and the 2009 car's sterling test pace, the future of Brawn GP reportedly remains under a very dark cloud.

In the decisions of the World Council meeting earlier this month, it was noted that despite the Brackley-based team simply requesting a name-change, Brawn would in fact be considered a 'new entry' for this season.

"The contract the team had with the FIA was to run as 'Honda', which they are no longer in a position to do," the FIA said.

Outwardly, the technicality has resulted in Brawn shifting to the very bottom of the pitlane, and being assigned the lowest race numbers for 2009.

But we noted last week that new teams usually must wait to receive full revenue entitlements according to F1's commercial agreements.

It is on this point that the Swiss specialist publication Motorsport Aktuell expresses concerns about the survival of the Mercedes-powered team. It claims that Brawn could not simply change its name to Brawn, therefore keeping Honda's financial status, because while the teams unanimously agreed, Bernie Ecclestone exercised his veto.



Brawn is therefore missing about 22 million (euro) of its projected 2009 budget, in a state of affairs that could date back to a news item in February.

That's interesting. When Honda bought the BAR team, did they suffer the same fate? Or is this to do with timing, i.e. that the 2009 entry had already been made as "Honda" and therefore that isn't possible to change?

Anyhow, I thought that part of the whole deal for the buy-out was that BE was advancing 2009 revenues? Some clarification would be nice!

I remember reading that Eccs was advancing Brawn 2009 TV revenues. As you say, clarification would be nice.


At least Eccs is consistant in his home as well as public life. His missus is divorcing him on the grounds of 'unreasonable behaviour'. Mind you, she's always looked down on him.

Edited by andygo on Wednesday 25th March 13:05

[phumy]

german tony said:

That 22 million is available to the other teams to share between them so Bernie gets no benefit from it himself.

As for the 300 people that worked hard to save the team then got made redundent - as Bernie says about Brawn, the man is not to be trusted.

& no I don't think Bernie is a saint.

So how else will he make 300, actually 275, disappear?

Initially, they are not being "made" redundant, they are asking for volunteers. However i believe not too many have to put their hands up at the moment.

[german tony]

skwdenyer said:

Who are you, Red Robbo?

Was Red Robbo the fella that stashed a whole load of BMW money offshore & still hasn't been prosecuted for it or have I mixed him up with some other evil group that destroyed what was BL?

[andyps]

cj_eds said:

Don't new teams have to lodge a massive deposit as some form of guarentee they're turning up? (Money presumably Prodrive lost?). I was suprised that wasn't mentioned when BrawnGP first appeared, although we've never been made aware of that same deposit money changing hands when other teams have been taken over. Don't remember Renault etc being shunted to the back of the garages when they took over Benetton, likewise Red Bull, Force India, Torro Rosso etc etc etc.

Could be cynical, but I wonder if Bernie, Max and Co will find some blackmailing tool to threaten Williams & Toyota with. Would certainly 'diffuse' a certain protest situation that's brewing for Melbourne.

Edited by cj_eds on Wednesday 25th March 13:07

At the same time as the release from the FIA which included all the things about revised rules, points, budgets etc. they did say that the requirement to lodge a deposit was waived for Brawn and that the change was approved from Honda to Brawn.

[skwdenyer]

german tony said:

skwdenyer said:

Who are you, Red Robbo?

Was Red Robbo the fella that stashed a whole load of BMW money offshore & still hasn't been prosecuted for it or have I mixed him up with some other evil group that destroyed what was BL?

AFAIK nobody did what you're suggesting, although many would like to think that's what the "Phoenix 4" did with the £500m from BMW; instead, they used it to pay wages.

Red Robbo was, however, the foaming-at-the-mouth union ringleader who, in a smaller-scale preview of what was to come with Scargill, tried to take on the government via BL and caused merry hell. Some estimates have put the losses to BL directly attributable to his actions in the (in today's money) £billions area. He was one of that warm, fluffy band who seemed to think that jobs are rights without responsibilities.

[german tony]

Oh right, the Phoenix 4 blew all the money on wages and didn't waste it on V8 engined Rovers 75s, Italian supercars rebadged as MGs & monumental pension schemes for themselves then.

That's a comfort - at least, if, as you suggest, I'm Red Robbo - a man hell bent on getting the workers paid above all else.

[skwdenyer]

german tony said:

Oh right, the Phoenix 4 blew all the money on wages and didn't waste it on V8 engined Rovers 75s, Italian supercars rebadged as MGs & monumental pension schemes for themselves then.

OK, I don't want to re-open that can of worms! I don't think the P4 made a very good fist of things, but I haven't seen any evidence (yet) that they were crooks.

german tony said:

That's a comfort - at least, if, as you suggest, I'm Red Robbo - a man hell bent on getting the workers paid above all else.

I'm not sure how you can find any evidence that Red Robbo was interested in getting the workers paid when they were working; he did, however, always make a point of making sure that they got paid when on strike (or, more precisely, that in return for halting a strike the workers were paid in retrospect for the days when they weren't working). His record was appalling and, to be honest, he cost the jobs of many, many workers through his pointless militancy and needless intransigence. He would also be the first to take everybody out on strike - and risk complete bankruptcy for the company - rather than let a few jobs be lost to save the company.

In that regard, as I said, he served as a small-scale prototype for the deluded megalomania of Scargill a little later.

In that latter approach, your views over Brawn bear a striking resemblance to his. The content and tone of your comment suggested that it was somehow dishonest of RB to have saved the team only to have to lay off 30% of the staff, when prior to RB's involvement 100% of the staff would have been laid off. That seemed to me, especially in this day and age, a scarcely believable position to hold, hence my comment.

[Murph7355]

Money means little or nothing to these guys - no matter what predicaments they may have found/find themselves in, they have more than enough money, and are more than old enough, that they never need worry about that again.

Power is where it's at. And at any point they both like to try to demonstrate to us all that they wield some. In their own heads anyway.

If power is commensurate with an ability to kill a sport, they could well go on to prove that they are extremely powerful indeed if some of their recent demented ramblings and suggestions are anything to go by.

All sounds like Bernie with his bottom lip out to me. Wonder if he wanted a stake in the team? Or perhaps just wants a lever over the diffuser stuff etc should BGP prove (too) quick.

As for Bernie citing anyone as untrustworthy. Pot meet kettle.