Big Brother is watching

[tonyrec]

Whilst reading the handbook of my new vOLVO XC90, i was amazed to read that the following items are 'recorded' by the vehicle.
Engine Management problems
Speed of vehicle
Braking
Use of lights etc etc

All of this is for use of the Volvo Engineers and can also be downloaded for the use of the Police if requested.

I didnt know this but its the same idea as the IDRs fitted to Police vehicles which tell everything about the way the car has been driven.

I wonder how many other manufacturers have this type of technology fitted to their vehicles.

[liszt]

tonyrec said:

All of this is for use of the Volvo Engineers and can also be downloaded for the use of the Police if requested.

Really is this bit true? I believe that this has been the case in the US for a while but there has not been any court action as yet.


Whats the new motor like? Looks very smart

[cptsideways]

Is the IDR a data logger then?

The Volvo system sounds like it stores the ECU's data, there's gotta be a limit though. Maybe it only stores maximums & will update every time its exceeded. I'd be intersted to know more.

Quick question Tony - Mobile gatso post & corrobative evidence on post this afternoon..

[tonyrec]

liszt said:

Really is this bit true? I believe that this has been the case in the US for a while but there has not been any court action as yet. Whats the new motor like? Looks very smart

I have yet to make my own enqs but thats what it says in the handbook.

Thanks, the car is great, very big and full of goodies.

[streaky]

US manufacturer(s) successfully sued by car owners for 'improper' use of the information gathered. IIRC, one case was a manufacturer who tried to refuse a warranty repair on the basis that the receommended running-in speed had been exceeded.

I suspect there is a Data Protection issue here too, one of informed consent to the collection of the data.

Interesting!

Streaky

>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 12th November 18:16

[T4R]

Oh dear. I hope it's only on the XC90..

Had the rear end out yet, Tony ?

[fish]

all current range TVRs do it as well.......

[marvelharvey]

I've taken my BMW for a service recently, they never mention that I'd had it up to the speed limiter a couple of times.

Anyway, that was on an airfield

[bga]

liszt said:

Really is this bit true? I believe that this has been the case in the US for a while but there has not been any court action as yet.

I'm pretty sure a guy in the US was convicted for causing death by dangerous driving (or the US equivalent, grand death auto???) and the critical piece of evidence was from info recorded in a black box 3 or 4 seconds prior to the crash indicating that the vehicle was travelling much faster than claimed.

[docevi1]

I read in Car Mag this month that these black boxes are much more common than you'd care to realise. They record information for 5 seconds before the crash... The same exists in the UK.

Maybe the way they get round it is by saying the data doesn't belong to anyone and is anonymous - ultimately they don't know who is driving (unless it uses the weight sensors in the seat and records the weight of the person)...

I'm not entirely sure how they can be used long term - ultimately there is only a finite amount of memory available, but they certainly exist.

Cars are far too clever anyway, I'll stick to something I can get my hands on and poke about in for a long time.

[porsche944]

As I understand it the systems only have capacity to record the "last" item of data for each element recorded (eg current speed, current rpm, current gear etc), and every couple of seconds it is updated, thereby overwriting the previous item.

The systems were originally put in place in the US in order that the air-bag development folks could find out what circumstances the car was under when the airbag was deployed.

[SpudGunner]

Now if only you could plug the car into your USB socket on your PC at home and then get some cracking results up on screen....

fastest speed
0-120
longest skid

the possibilities and fun are endless

[MoJocvh]

an ecu is an ecu, nothing new tech wise but the willingness to go do this, thats another story.

cheers

MoJo

[DontLift]

Tony,

I used to get knowing looks from the volvo guys at my dealer when I had my 850 and claimed I never went over X revs....... since found out that used to record limits

[icamm]

If the data can be used (and I have no doubt the Police or CPS will find a way if their is one) then I would have thought it could only be used in exceptional circumstances to prove massive speeds etc.

No normal car sold to Joe Public has accurate enough speedometers recordings etc for the data to be accurate enough to prove minor speeding offences etc. However, if they were used in conjunction with other evidence to prove a crash happened at 70mph in a 30mph limit........

[pbrettle]

tonyrec said:

All of this is for use of the Volvo Engineers and can also be downloaded for the use of the Police if requested.

Its going to need an official request if not court order to get the information. That is data logged in your car for the use of Volvo....they cannot pass on that data without the expressed permission of the owner of the vehicle (like you are going to do that!). So it is going to have to be a court order to get it....

On the other hand - they have something like this in the US and has been used to prosecute drivers. Though this is extreme cases where they have corroborated at the scene evidence with information from the ECU - like speed before impact and speed of response on the brakes etc.... also can be used to prove that the ABS worked, or that the airbag deployed in an effort to save the manufacturers from spurious and malicious court cases...

The data logged is a matter of seconds and general information. Privacy is a major concern and hence limited data for limited uses....

P.S. Have you seen the terms and conditions for the ECU logging? Did you sign something? Is there a bit in the manual about allowing access to the data? Check it out - without an explanation to you the owner - NO ONE has claim to the data. You have to ask / confirm or state the terms of access to the data and have positive identification for the owner (i.e. signature) - otherwise they can ask and you can say no.

[chimburt]

don't know if this is true or not, but s2 elise record something like top 5 0-60, top 5 highest speeds, and max revs etc.
i heard that this info had been used to refute a warranty claim.
anyone back this up? ( rather than just something you heard off a bloke in the pub )

[Mr E]

icamm said:

No normal car sold to Joe Public has accurate enough speedometers recordings etc for the data to be accurate enough to prove minor speeding offences etc.

Hmmm. My speed limiter is GPS proven to be *bang* on 112mph*. The limiter is ECU controlled.

The speedo, at this point is reading somwhere in excess of 125mph (I was a bit busy to note it exactly).

*On a runway

[Bonce]

chimburt said:

don't know if this is true or not, but s2 elise record something like top 5 0-60, top 5 highest speeds, and max revs etc. i heard that this info had been used to refute a warranty claim. anyone back this up? ( rather than just something you heard off a bloke in the pub )

Yes, that's true. The data is checked in warranty claims to make sure the owner hasn't been thrashing the car whilst cold etc.

[te51cle]

It's a feature of the engine management of C5 Corvettes like mine. The system logs maximum speed achieved and peak speed in the last 5 seconds before an impact. I'll bet its on BMWs, Mercedes etc. too.