Bernie says the teams have been paid.
Discussion
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=37314
Formula One Administration Limited ('FOA'), the commercial rights holder of Formula One, wishes to clarify and correct inaccurate and misleading statements made to the media yesterday by "FOTA".
In particular FOTA claimed that monies are owed by CVC (FOA's controlling shareholder) to the teams for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Championship seasons. Neither CVC nor FOA owes any amount to any team.
The contract between the commercial rights holder and the teams competing in Formula One, the so-called Concorde Agreement, expired at the end of 2007. All prize fund entitlements payable to the signatory teams under that arrangement were paid when due.
FOA has made new contracts with various teams currently competing in the FIA Formula One World Championship on an individual basis, whereby the team has committed to participate in the Championship for an agreed period in return for which FOA has agreed to pay a share of an annual prize fund generated from and calculated with reference to its profits. Each of these teams has been paid its full prize fund entitlement to date.
A few teams have yet to enter into a contract with FOA concerning their participation in the Championship, notwithstanding which FOA has made substantial payments to each of them on account of future prize fund entitlements they will have when they sign a contract, demonstrating FOA's goodwill and intent to conclude a new arrangement with them.
FOA welcomes that the teams are engaging in constructive discussions to progress a new Concorde Agreement that will encompass all teams. FOA looks forward to finalising and concluding that contract with the teams in the coming weeks, at which time they will be paid whatever their entitlement will be under the new arrangement.
FOA has no relationship with FOTA. It has always had a direct relationship with teams and will continue to do so.
Which seems to mean:-
The teams have been paid at the old rates but think they should be have been paid at the rates Bernie agreed when the old Concorde agreement ended but 'cos he bunged Ferrari some extra cash not to sign the new deal it isn't legally binding so he's not going to cough up.
Sadly the teams that have included the money Bernie said he would give them in their calculations for the last 4 years but didn't (& never will) may be facing bankruptcy shortly. They can blame greed & deviousness for that.
Not only that but as the new Forumla 1 is supposed to be cheaper Bernie is trying to pay even less.
Bernie will get his new F1, with teams we've never heard off, doing what he & Max tell them - we, & the teams we have supported for so long will just get shafted.
Formula One Administration Limited ('FOA'), the commercial rights holder of Formula One, wishes to clarify and correct inaccurate and misleading statements made to the media yesterday by "FOTA".
In particular FOTA claimed that monies are owed by CVC (FOA's controlling shareholder) to the teams for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Championship seasons. Neither CVC nor FOA owes any amount to any team.
The contract between the commercial rights holder and the teams competing in Formula One, the so-called Concorde Agreement, expired at the end of 2007. All prize fund entitlements payable to the signatory teams under that arrangement were paid when due.
FOA has made new contracts with various teams currently competing in the FIA Formula One World Championship on an individual basis, whereby the team has committed to participate in the Championship for an agreed period in return for which FOA has agreed to pay a share of an annual prize fund generated from and calculated with reference to its profits. Each of these teams has been paid its full prize fund entitlement to date.
A few teams have yet to enter into a contract with FOA concerning their participation in the Championship, notwithstanding which FOA has made substantial payments to each of them on account of future prize fund entitlements they will have when they sign a contract, demonstrating FOA's goodwill and intent to conclude a new arrangement with them.
FOA welcomes that the teams are engaging in constructive discussions to progress a new Concorde Agreement that will encompass all teams. FOA looks forward to finalising and concluding that contract with the teams in the coming weeks, at which time they will be paid whatever their entitlement will be under the new arrangement.
FOA has no relationship with FOTA. It has always had a direct relationship with teams and will continue to do so.
Which seems to mean:-
The teams have been paid at the old rates but think they should be have been paid at the rates Bernie agreed when the old Concorde agreement ended but 'cos he bunged Ferrari some extra cash not to sign the new deal it isn't legally binding so he's not going to cough up.
Sadly the teams that have included the money Bernie said he would give them in their calculations for the last 4 years but didn't (& never will) may be facing bankruptcy shortly. They can blame greed & deviousness for that.
Not only that but as the new Forumla 1 is supposed to be cheaper Bernie is trying to pay even less.
Bernie will get his new F1, with teams we've never heard off, doing what he & Max tell them - we, & the teams we have supported for so long will just get shafted.
stifler said:
I think that "Bernie TV" would be great with just two Ferraris to watch!
Where have you been all winter?Ferrari are firmly in the FOTA which is fighter against the Midget and the Spank master.
If there was a breakaway, those two criminals will have nothing left to play with apart from themselves...
motormania said:
stifler said:
I think that "Bernie TV" would be great with just two Ferraris to watch!
Where have you been all winter?Ferrari are firmly in the FOTA which is fighter against the Midget and the Spank master.
If there was a breakaway, those two criminals will have nothing left to play with apart from themselves...
I suspect Ferrari would break out of FOTA if Bernie were to offer them more money than their current deal is worth - they are not so into FOTA that they have turned down the extra 80 million now are they?
In any casde Bernie has probaly got a better deal by advancing cash to Williams - he won't have done that unless he thought they'd be his poodles.
In any casde Bernie has probaly got a better deal by advancing cash to Williams - he won't have done that unless he thought they'd be his poodles.
onemorelap said:
stifler said:
Definitly time for a breakaway series.
Don't disagree with your comment but how do you breakaway when a new series would presumably still need FIA approval / sanction to race?You can have races without FIA approval. You just can't call t a World Championship.
That said if you new series looks good the FIA have to recognise it 6 give it World Championship status.
A minor sticking point is that the FIA has made it very clear to the circuits that if they hold a non-FIA F1 race they won't be allowed any FIA approved races. This is probably illegal in the EU & I suspect the circuits that have very few FIA races anyway (in the US, the Middle East, China, Monaco etc) won't care either but you can't actually force the FIA to hold races at your circuit either.
The major sticking point will be that Bernie has deals with the circuits to hold FIA approved GPs there & so any attempt to hold non FIA approved GPs will = pay Bernie, big time.
That said if you new series looks good the FIA have to recognise it 6 give it World Championship status.
A minor sticking point is that the FIA has made it very clear to the circuits that if they hold a non-FIA F1 race they won't be allowed any FIA approved races. This is probably illegal in the EU & I suspect the circuits that have very few FIA races anyway (in the US, the Middle East, China, Monaco etc) won't care either but you can't actually force the FIA to hold races at your circuit either.
The major sticking point will be that Bernie has deals with the circuits to hold FIA approved GPs there & so any attempt to hold non FIA approved GPs will = pay Bernie, big time.
german tony said:
You can have races without FIA approval. You just can't call t a World Championship.
That said if you new series looks good the FIA have to recognise it 6 give it World Championship status.
A minor sticking point is that the FIA has made it very clear to the circuits that if they hold a non-FIA F1 race they won't be allowed any FIA approved races. This is probably illegal in the EU & I suspect the circuits that have very few FIA races anyway (in the US, the Middle East, China, Monaco etc) won't care either but you can't actually force the FIA to hold races at your circuit either.
The major sticking point will be that Bernie has deals with the circuits to hold FIA approved GPs there & so any attempt to hold non FIA approved GPs will = pay Bernie, big time.
Or call it a World Series. Set up a company called "world" and have the company sponser the championship. That said if you new series looks good the FIA have to recognise it 6 give it World Championship status.
A minor sticking point is that the FIA has made it very clear to the circuits that if they hold a non-FIA F1 race they won't be allowed any FIA approved races. This is probably illegal in the EU & I suspect the circuits that have very few FIA races anyway (in the US, the Middle East, China, Monaco etc) won't care either but you can't actually force the FIA to hold races at your circuit either.
The major sticking point will be that Bernie has deals with the circuits to hold FIA approved GPs there & so any attempt to hold non FIA approved GPs will = pay Bernie, big time.
There's been another press release at:
www.tellinglies.com
It says
[i]
"The conglomerate F-word Negotiating League (F 'n' L), which represents lots of different things in the world of Formula 1, except anything to do with entertainment, would like to make it clear that whilst things are indeed going wrong at the moment, we believe that our monopolist position will be strong enough to force our will on the big teams as well as the little ones. We also believe that we can tell much bigger lies than anyone else and put more spin on a subject that a neutron star.
"We would like to express our belief in the traditional standards of F1 organisation, including bullying, threats and witholding rights, and that F'n'L are the only group who have the ability and good marketing sense to price the teams who refuse to cooperate out of the way. We further feel that there is no argument that the interests of those whose interests we represent will ensure that all team managers in future are emasculated and have no ability to stand against the interests of those groups whose interests we are interested in.
"There can be little doubt that with F'n'L at the head there is only one way F1 can go. And fast."[/i]
There was an odd little addendum to an FiA (read Mossy) press release which stated that they would support the teams if they decided to opt for a breakaway series. I sought advice from someone in the know and he felt it was a threat to Bernie. He was of the opinion that the stand the Bernie at that time was taking against Mossy would evaporate.
Whilst there are some restrictions on what any breakaway series could call itself, my understanding is that the term Formula 1 is a no-no but Grand Prix is available. There are many different terms they could use instead of World Championship - indeed the American Football association calls itself the world series and there is always Miss Universe.
The problem is that a race series with the teams in total control would be bad for the sport, although probably not so bad as one with Mossy at full dictatorial mode. The circuits are no real problem as all those worth going to, from the point of view of spectators, fans and the manufacturers, are in countries where class actions are all too possible. For instance, you could run a whole series in the EU and if BMW, Merc and Renault are on board then I would expect little sympathy for Mossy in his little non EU hideaway. Not a bad thought, eh? Two in each country, including Britain.
What is bad for the sport is the squabbling and downright lies that are the daily fare. With Mossy's disgusting habits still in the news and providing hilarious column inches - see Private Eye last week - and Eccs saying that the teams are the ones who stopped racing in America (wow! I never knew that) would anyone considering investment really think long term?
I was once doing a bit of first aid on a chap who was thrown from a Triumph Vitesse. He'd punctured a lung or two, had various broken limbs - on first assessment it looked like more that four - and was bleeding from a wound by his ear. He asked what state his car was in. I called out to a colleague who was searching the remains for any further damaged bodies and he shouted back: It's well beyond the stage of T-cut helping.
And that's the position of F1. Much of it is damaged beyond economic repair and a decision has to be made whether it is worth the time and effort to put it back together again for sentimental reasons or to go for something nice, shiny and new. In the latter case it might well lose the comforting patina that we liked so much, but a new one would be much more reliable and dependable.
(edited to try and do something about the italic formatting)
(edited to add: and failing)
www.tellinglies.com
It says
[i]
"The conglomerate F-word Negotiating League (F 'n' L), which represents lots of different things in the world of Formula 1, except anything to do with entertainment, would like to make it clear that whilst things are indeed going wrong at the moment, we believe that our monopolist position will be strong enough to force our will on the big teams as well as the little ones. We also believe that we can tell much bigger lies than anyone else and put more spin on a subject that a neutron star.
"We would like to express our belief in the traditional standards of F1 organisation, including bullying, threats and witholding rights, and that F'n'L are the only group who have the ability and good marketing sense to price the teams who refuse to cooperate out of the way. We further feel that there is no argument that the interests of those whose interests we represent will ensure that all team managers in future are emasculated and have no ability to stand against the interests of those groups whose interests we are interested in.
"There can be little doubt that with F'n'L at the head there is only one way F1 can go. And fast."[/i]
There was an odd little addendum to an FiA (read Mossy) press release which stated that they would support the teams if they decided to opt for a breakaway series. I sought advice from someone in the know and he felt it was a threat to Bernie. He was of the opinion that the stand the Bernie at that time was taking against Mossy would evaporate.
Whilst there are some restrictions on what any breakaway series could call itself, my understanding is that the term Formula 1 is a no-no but Grand Prix is available. There are many different terms they could use instead of World Championship - indeed the American Football association calls itself the world series and there is always Miss Universe.
The problem is that a race series with the teams in total control would be bad for the sport, although probably not so bad as one with Mossy at full dictatorial mode. The circuits are no real problem as all those worth going to, from the point of view of spectators, fans and the manufacturers, are in countries where class actions are all too possible. For instance, you could run a whole series in the EU and if BMW, Merc and Renault are on board then I would expect little sympathy for Mossy in his little non EU hideaway. Not a bad thought, eh? Two in each country, including Britain.
What is bad for the sport is the squabbling and downright lies that are the daily fare. With Mossy's disgusting habits still in the news and providing hilarious column inches - see Private Eye last week - and Eccs saying that the teams are the ones who stopped racing in America (wow! I never knew that) would anyone considering investment really think long term?
I was once doing a bit of first aid on a chap who was thrown from a Triumph Vitesse. He'd punctured a lung or two, had various broken limbs - on first assessment it looked like more that four - and was bleeding from a wound by his ear. He asked what state his car was in. I called out to a colleague who was searching the remains for any further damaged bodies and he shouted back: It's well beyond the stage of T-cut helping.
And that's the position of F1. Much of it is damaged beyond economic repair and a decision has to be made whether it is worth the time and effort to put it back together again for sentimental reasons or to go for something nice, shiny and new. In the latter case it might well lose the comforting patina that we liked so much, but a new one would be much more reliable and dependable.
(edited to try and do something about the italic formatting)
(edited to add: and failing)
Edited by Derek Smith on Friday 27th March 15:47
Edited by Derek Smith on Friday 27th March 15:48
german tony said:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=37314
Formula One Administration Limited ('FOA'), the commercial rights holder of Formula One, wishes to clarify and correct inaccurate and misleading statements made to the media yesterday by "FOTA".
In particular FOTA claimed that monies are owed by CVC (FOA's controlling shareholder) to the teams for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Championship seasons. Neither CVC nor FOA owes any amount to any team.
The contract between the commercial rights holder and the teams competing in Formula One, the so-called Concorde Agreement, expired at the end of 2007. All prize fund entitlements payable to the signatory teams under that arrangement were paid when due.
FOA has made new contracts with various teams currently competing in the FIA Formula One World Championship on an individual basis, whereby the team has committed to participate in the Championship for an agreed period in return for which FOA has agreed to pay a share of an annual prize fund generated from and calculated with reference to its profits. Each of these teams has been paid its full prize fund entitlement to date.
A few teams have yet to enter into a contract with FOA concerning their participation in the Championship, notwithstanding which FOA has made substantial payments to each of them on account of future prize fund entitlements they will have when they sign a contract, demonstrating FOA's goodwill and intent to conclude a new arrangement with them.
FOA welcomes that the teams are engaging in constructive discussions to progress a new Concorde Agreement that will encompass all teams. FOA looks forward to finalising and concluding that contract with the teams in the coming weeks, at which time they will be paid whatever their entitlement will be under the new arrangement.
FOA has no relationship with FOTA. It has always had a direct relationship with teams and will continue to do so.
Which seems to mean:-
The teams have been paid at the old rates but think they should be have been paid at the rates Bernie agreed when the old Concorde agreement ended but 'cos he bunged Ferrari some extra cash not to sign the new deal it isn't legally binding so he's not going to cough up.
Sadly the teams that have included the money Bernie said he would give them in their calculations for the last 4 years but didn't (& never will) may be facing bankruptcy shortly. They can blame greed & deviousness for that.
Not only that but as the new Forumla 1 is supposed to be cheaper Bernie is trying to pay even less.
Bernie will get his new F1, with teams we've never heard off, doing what he & Max tell them - we, & the teams we have supported for so long will just get shafted.
The thing I've always found, err, a little staggering is that the FIA sold the commercial rights to FOA, the FIA administers who can enter and who cannot, and yet the FIA did not mandate a formula for the paying of the teams by FOA. The idea that the teams who haven't signed (who are they, by the way?) are only getting money on a "grace and favour" basis is absolutely intolerable.Formula One Administration Limited ('FOA'), the commercial rights holder of Formula One, wishes to clarify and correct inaccurate and misleading statements made to the media yesterday by "FOTA".
In particular FOTA claimed that monies are owed by CVC (FOA's controlling shareholder) to the teams for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Championship seasons. Neither CVC nor FOA owes any amount to any team.
The contract between the commercial rights holder and the teams competing in Formula One, the so-called Concorde Agreement, expired at the end of 2007. All prize fund entitlements payable to the signatory teams under that arrangement were paid when due.
FOA has made new contracts with various teams currently competing in the FIA Formula One World Championship on an individual basis, whereby the team has committed to participate in the Championship for an agreed period in return for which FOA has agreed to pay a share of an annual prize fund generated from and calculated with reference to its profits. Each of these teams has been paid its full prize fund entitlement to date.
A few teams have yet to enter into a contract with FOA concerning their participation in the Championship, notwithstanding which FOA has made substantial payments to each of them on account of future prize fund entitlements they will have when they sign a contract, demonstrating FOA's goodwill and intent to conclude a new arrangement with them.
FOA welcomes that the teams are engaging in constructive discussions to progress a new Concorde Agreement that will encompass all teams. FOA looks forward to finalising and concluding that contract with the teams in the coming weeks, at which time they will be paid whatever their entitlement will be under the new arrangement.
FOA has no relationship with FOTA. It has always had a direct relationship with teams and will continue to do so.
Which seems to mean:-
The teams have been paid at the old rates but think they should be have been paid at the rates Bernie agreed when the old Concorde agreement ended but 'cos he bunged Ferrari some extra cash not to sign the new deal it isn't legally binding so he's not going to cough up.
Sadly the teams that have included the money Bernie said he would give them in their calculations for the last 4 years but didn't (& never will) may be facing bankruptcy shortly. They can blame greed & deviousness for that.
Not only that but as the new Forumla 1 is supposed to be cheaper Bernie is trying to pay even less.
Bernie will get his new F1, with teams we've never heard off, doing what he & Max tell them - we, & the teams we have supported for so long will just get shafted.
skwdenyer said:
german tony said:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=37314
Formula One Administration Limited ('FOA'), the commercial rights holder of Formula One, wishes to clarify and correct inaccurate and misleading statements made to the media yesterday by "FOTA".
In particular FOTA claimed that monies are owed by CVC (FOA's controlling shareholder) to the teams for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Championship seasons. Neither CVC nor FOA owes any amount to any team.
The contract between the commercial rights holder and the teams competing in Formula One, the so-called Concorde Agreement, expired at the end of 2007. All prize fund entitlements payable to the signatory teams under that arrangement were paid when due.
FOA has made new contracts with various teams currently competing in the FIA Formula One World Championship on an individual basis, whereby the team has committed to participate in the Championship for an agreed period in return for which FOA has agreed to pay a share of an annual prize fund generated from and calculated with reference to its profits. Each of these teams has been paid its full prize fund entitlement to date.
A few teams have yet to enter into a contract with FOA concerning their participation in the Championship, notwithstanding which FOA has made substantial payments to each of them on account of future prize fund entitlements they will have when they sign a contract, demonstrating FOA's goodwill and intent to conclude a new arrangement with them.
FOA welcomes that the teams are engaging in constructive discussions to progress a new Concorde Agreement that will encompass all teams. FOA looks forward to finalising and concluding that contract with the teams in the coming weeks, at which time they will be paid whatever their entitlement will be under the new arrangement.
FOA has no relationship with FOTA. It has always had a direct relationship with teams and will continue to do so.
Which seems to mean:-
The teams have been paid at the old rates but think they should be have been paid at the rates Bernie agreed when the old Concorde agreement ended but 'cos he bunged Ferrari some extra cash not to sign the new deal it isn't legally binding so he's not going to cough up.
Sadly the teams that have included the money Bernie said he would give them in their calculations for the last 4 years but didn't (& never will) may be facing bankruptcy shortly. They can blame greed & deviousness for that.
Not only that but as the new Forumla 1 is supposed to be cheaper Bernie is trying to pay even less.
Bernie will get his new F1, with teams we've never heard off, doing what he & Max tell them - we, & the teams we have supported for so long will just get shafted.
The thing I've always found, err, a little staggering is that the FIA sold the commercial rights to FOA, the FIA administers who can enter and who cannot, and yet the FIA did not mandate a formula for the paying of the teams by FOA. The idea that the teams who haven't signed (who are they, by the way?) are only getting money on a "grace and favour" basis is absolutely intolerable.Formula One Administration Limited ('FOA'), the commercial rights holder of Formula One, wishes to clarify and correct inaccurate and misleading statements made to the media yesterday by "FOTA".
In particular FOTA claimed that monies are owed by CVC (FOA's controlling shareholder) to the teams for the 2006, 2007 and 2008 Championship seasons. Neither CVC nor FOA owes any amount to any team.
The contract between the commercial rights holder and the teams competing in Formula One, the so-called Concorde Agreement, expired at the end of 2007. All prize fund entitlements payable to the signatory teams under that arrangement were paid when due.
FOA has made new contracts with various teams currently competing in the FIA Formula One World Championship on an individual basis, whereby the team has committed to participate in the Championship for an agreed period in return for which FOA has agreed to pay a share of an annual prize fund generated from and calculated with reference to its profits. Each of these teams has been paid its full prize fund entitlement to date.
A few teams have yet to enter into a contract with FOA concerning their participation in the Championship, notwithstanding which FOA has made substantial payments to each of them on account of future prize fund entitlements they will have when they sign a contract, demonstrating FOA's goodwill and intent to conclude a new arrangement with them.
FOA welcomes that the teams are engaging in constructive discussions to progress a new Concorde Agreement that will encompass all teams. FOA looks forward to finalising and concluding that contract with the teams in the coming weeks, at which time they will be paid whatever their entitlement will be under the new arrangement.
FOA has no relationship with FOTA. It has always had a direct relationship with teams and will continue to do so.
Which seems to mean:-
The teams have been paid at the old rates but think they should be have been paid at the rates Bernie agreed when the old Concorde agreement ended but 'cos he bunged Ferrari some extra cash not to sign the new deal it isn't legally binding so he's not going to cough up.
Sadly the teams that have included the money Bernie said he would give them in their calculations for the last 4 years but didn't (& never will) may be facing bankruptcy shortly. They can blame greed & deviousness for that.
Not only that but as the new Forumla 1 is supposed to be cheaper Bernie is trying to pay even less.
Bernie will get his new F1, with teams we've never heard off, doing what he & Max tell them - we, & the teams we have supported for so long will just get shafted.
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