Discussion
Hi guys,
Had my MOT today. Failed on emissions and handbrake. The handbrake is fine because I can sort that easily but how the hell do I sort out the emissions?
Failing that, does anybody know of a TVR friendly garage or a way to fiddle my emissions so I can at least get it through the MOT.
Regards
Had my MOT today. Failed on emissions and handbrake. The handbrake is fine because I can sort that easily but how the hell do I sort out the emissions?
Failing that, does anybody know of a TVR friendly garage or a way to fiddle my emissions so I can at least get it through the MOT.
Regards
I had a similar problem with diesel emissions a while back - the garage gave me some Forte additive to put in the tank when it was about a quarter full and told me to take it for a 30 min blast to clear it out before coming back for a re-test. It worked a treat.
Maybe you can try Forte petrol additive and do the same.
Hope this helps.
Maybe you can try Forte petrol additive and do the same.
Hope this helps.
My s.9 failed on emmssions last year too, fortunately my MOT tester is the RO for this region so with his contacts I took it round the corner to the team with a rolling road, they slapped it on their machines and with one quick tweak of the air bleed setting on the AFMs it was well in spec and now uses less fuel with no apparant power loss. The adjuster for this is on the AFM (just behind the air filter) down a cirular recess that a screwdriver will just fit in.
Basically you need to get it tuned then it should pass unless something is seriously wrong
Basically you need to get it tuned then it should pass unless something is seriously wrong
Had something similar, local garage advised to change air/fuel mixture a bit. It was just on the right side of the limit, but to prevent the bad luck at the MOT moment we did the adjustment.
At the air flow meters adjust the screws (two turns) to give it a bit less fuel. Still ran fine. But can be that it will be a bit worse when cold. But if you remember the right setting you can re-adjust afterwards.
Best to change the setting when engine runs and when the CO measurement probe is inserted. You can then directly see the effect.
good luck!
At the air flow meters adjust the screws (two turns) to give it a bit less fuel. Still ran fine. But can be that it will be a bit worse when cold. But if you remember the right setting you can re-adjust afterwards.
Best to change the setting when engine runs and when the CO measurement probe is inserted. You can then directly see the effect.
good luck!
The emissions were apparently double what they should be at 3.0 and 2700.
I think this could be related to the slight hesitation at low revs (See previous thread). I'm thinking that if the mixture is running too rich, it will knock up the emissions and maybe cause irregular running at low revs. I'm going to look at the air flow adjuster screws later today, any other advice or theory's will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers guys
I think this could be related to the slight hesitation at low revs (See previous thread). I'm thinking that if the mixture is running too rich, it will knock up the emissions and maybe cause irregular running at low revs. I'm going to look at the air flow adjuster screws later today, any other advice or theory's will be greatly appreciated.
Cheers guys
tvrgit said:
I would re-emphasise of taking the car in after a good run, engine hot, to give it the best chance of passing.
The engine was up to temp prior to the test, having been on a 30 minute hard run. It was also left idling through the whole test with the emissions checked at the end.I think for the retest i'll try taking it out for an hour before and maybe chuck in some fuel system cleaner.
Okay, latest development.
My dad has just popped down to David Geralds to discuss my emission and hesitation problem. The mechanic at D.G. has given a likely cause to the problem and I wanted an opinion from you guys.
The mechanic said that when we removed the engine, we should have marked the position of the distributor as this MUST be placed back in exactly the same position.
When we had the engine running, the first job was the timing which we did by the usual method; off the main pulley and by adjusting the dizzy.
The mechanic said that the dizzy must not be used to adjust the timing, as the ECU does this automatically. The dizzy is in a pre-set position.
Apparently because I have moved the dizzy, I need a scanner which most ford garages used to have but are now considered defunct.
Does anyone know where I can find a garage that still has this scanning equipment or can 'tune' the V6 engine.
This all sounds rather complicated, any comments or ideas?
Cheers Ad
My dad has just popped down to David Geralds to discuss my emission and hesitation problem. The mechanic at D.G. has given a likely cause to the problem and I wanted an opinion from you guys.
The mechanic said that when we removed the engine, we should have marked the position of the distributor as this MUST be placed back in exactly the same position.
When we had the engine running, the first job was the timing which we did by the usual method; off the main pulley and by adjusting the dizzy.
The mechanic said that the dizzy must not be used to adjust the timing, as the ECU does this automatically. The dizzy is in a pre-set position.
Apparently because I have moved the dizzy, I need a scanner which most ford garages used to have but are now considered defunct.
Does anyone know where I can find a garage that still has this scanning equipment or can 'tune' the V6 engine.
This all sounds rather complicated, any comments or ideas?
Cheers Ad
pies said:
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
tvrgit said:
the emissions checked at the end.
Mistake number 1 its best done as soon as you arrive whilst its at its hottest 
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
The mechanic said that the dizzy must not be used to adjust the timing, as the ECU does this automatically. The dizzy is in a pre-set position.
Apparently because I have moved the dizzy, I need a scanner which most ford garages used to have but are now considered defunct.
I am no expert on this, and not a time-served mechanic. so you'll have to take this advice as you see fit.Apparently because I have moved the dizzy, I need a scanner which most ford garages used to have but are now considered defunct.
Your mechanic is correct in that the ECU adjusts the timing and the fuel depending on engine speed, load, throttle position, temperature, etc. So if the ECU is in the circuit, the timing position you see at idle might be an "adjusted" position as determined by the ECU.
What the Ford scanner does, is allow you to read the ECU inputs and outputs directly, and, most importantly, to bypass them so that any adjustments you make manually, by moving the distributor to adjust the timing for example, are made to the "base" setup and not while the engine is running with mapped adjustments.
You can, however, place the engine and ECU into the same "service mode" just by disconnecting the Idle Speed control valve and/or the throttle pot (I can't remember which it is, so I disconnect both).
Any adjustments you make now, are to the basic setup, and should get you close to the right setting.
Having said that, I have found that my ignition timing is well in advance of the 15 degrees recommended - it must be 18 to 20 or so. I read on here recently of a couple of others who were the same. If I set it back to 15, the engine feels less flexible.
Hope this helps. Let us know how you get on because I have to help a friend soon, to replace and set up his distributor which he didn't mark either!
Not much to add apart from,
I noticed when reconnecting bits and bobs on my s1 engine, that when the timing marker is bolted back on it's not 100% positive in its location so I would assume the accuracy of setting timing against it is a little variable +/-1 or 2 deg. I was intenting on using my timing strobe (that has a display of advance) once I have it running to make any further adjustments, using this alongside the previous posts suggestion should let you set it accurately.
I noticed when reconnecting bits and bobs on my s1 engine, that when the timing marker is bolted back on it's not 100% positive in its location so I would assume the accuracy of setting timing against it is a little variable +/-1 or 2 deg. I was intenting on using my timing strobe (that has a display of advance) once I have it running to make any further adjustments, using this alongside the previous posts suggestion should let you set it accurately.
The timing is interesting as mine is currently set at 12 btdc as described in the bible. I will see if moving the time more towards the 18 btdc improves the running.
So if I understand this correctly, by disconnecting the Idle control valve and the throttle pot, this sends the engine and ECU into 'base' or 'service mode'? Will this mean that any changes made to the timing will be 'remembered' by the ECU when reconnected?
Urgghhhhh..... this is all frying my brain
Ok, disconnecting the above will give me a 'clean slate' engine in terms of any adjustments I have made. From this I can re-adjust the dizzy to the correct position. When I reconnect the Idle control and throttle pot, will the ECU start from scratch or revert back to my 'modified' settings?
Sorry for all the questions, PH seems the only source of information.
So if I understand this correctly, by disconnecting the Idle control valve and the throttle pot, this sends the engine and ECU into 'base' or 'service mode'? Will this mean that any changes made to the timing will be 'remembered' by the ECU when reconnected?
Urgghhhhh..... this is all frying my brain
Ok, disconnecting the above will give me a 'clean slate' engine in terms of any adjustments I have made. From this I can re-adjust the dizzy to the correct position. When I reconnect the Idle control and throttle pot, will the ECU start from scratch or revert back to my 'modified' settings?
Sorry for all the questions, PH seems the only source of information.
The "scanner" role of putting the ECU into service mode is also available on the Draper fault code reader, which also gives you the capability of reading the fault codes stored by the ECU at home. I got one for Christmas for £9.99 - do a search online and they are available (just make sure you get the right pin configuration your car could be 3 or 5 pin). The Haynes manual to help explain how to interpret costs more than the reader!!!
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
The timing is interesting as mine is currently set at 12 btdc as described in the bible. I will see if moving the time more towards the 18 btdc improves the running.
So if I understand this correctly, by disconnecting the Idle control valve and the throttle pot, this sends the engine and ECU into 'base' or 'service mode'? Will this mean that any changes made to the timing will be 'remembered' by the ECU when reconnected?
Urgghhhhh..... this is all frying my brain
Ok, disconnecting the above will give me a 'clean slate' engine in terms of any adjustments I have made. From this I can re-adjust the dizzy to the correct position. When I reconnect the Idle control and throttle pot, will the ECU start from scratch or revert back to my 'modified' settings?
Sorry for all the questions, PH seems the only source of information.
AIUI, what you would be doing is setting up the basic timing position, ie the position the ECU thinks everthing should be in before it starts fiddling them about. When everything is reconnected, it is then adjusting from the correct base.So if I understand this correctly, by disconnecting the Idle control valve and the throttle pot, this sends the engine and ECU into 'base' or 'service mode'? Will this mean that any changes made to the timing will be 'remembered' by the ECU when reconnected?
Urgghhhhh..... this is all frying my brain
Ok, disconnecting the above will give me a 'clean slate' engine in terms of any adjustments I have made. From this I can re-adjust the dizzy to the correct position. When I reconnect the Idle control and throttle pot, will the ECU start from scratch or revert back to my 'modified' settings?
Sorry for all the questions, PH seems the only source of information.
If the base isn't correct, it makes the adjustment it thinks is necessary for a given speed / load / te,perature etc, but it's starting from the wrong place, so the adjusted position won't be right either.
So, in brief, AIUI, it effectively "remembers" the settings you have made.
M3CHA-MONK3Y said:
The engine was up to temp prior to the test, having been on a 30 minute hard run. It was also left idling through the whole test with the emissions checked at the end.
Just read this bit again. An engine idling for that long isn't breathing properly, and there is likely to be a build up of any oil sucked in past valve guides etc due to high idle vacuum. Always try to make sure that the engine has had a good rev to "clear its throat" before emission testing...mep12345 said:
The "scanner" role of putting the ECU into service mode is also available on the Draper fault code reader, which also gives you the capability of reading the fault codes stored by the ECU at home. I got one for Christmas for £9.99 - do a search online and they are available (just make sure you get the right pin configuration your car could be 3 or 5 pin). The Haynes manual to help explain how to interpret costs more than the reader!!!
I've heard of one or 2 cars (including mine) where the diagnostic socket for a fault code reader doesn't work. I don't know why, it just doesn't. tvrgit said:
AIUI, what you would be doing is setting up the basic timing position, ie the position the ECU thinks everthing should be in before it starts fiddling them about. When everything is reconnected, it is then adjusting from the correct base.
If the base isn't correct, it makes the adjustment it thinks is necessary for a given speed / load / te,perature etc, but it's starting from the wrong place, so the adjusted position won't be right either.
So, in brief, AIUI, it effectively "remembers" the settings you have made.
Okay, I understand exactly what you mean. Fantastic, this sounds like my problem. If the base isn't correct, it makes the adjustment it thinks is necessary for a given speed / load / te,perature etc, but it's starting from the wrong place, so the adjusted position won't be right either.
So, in brief, AIUI, it effectively "remembers" the settings you have made.
By starting the engine for the first time with the dizzy in the incorrect position, the ECU has 'learnt' and then set the base mark as my dizzy position, not the correct factory one.
Subsequently, any changes to timing made after the ECU had re-learnt the correct settings, has been 'out' by whatever degree my position is from the original factory setting.
Tvrgit, you sir, are an extremely helpful chap. I'll give it a go some point over the next few days and let you know how I get on. I'll be sure to give it a good revving before he tests the emissions again (any excuse).
Cheers guys, your all very helpful.
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