Thursday 13th November 2003

Congestion Charging

Edinburgh announces plans to Fleece Motorists

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Edinburgh's local authority revealed its proposals for congestion charging this week. From 2006 it plans to introduce two charging zones in the city, one of which will operate all day and another outer zone which will operate during rush hours.

The scheme would be operated via cameras much like London's congestion zone. Entry into the city would cost around £2.

The plans are designed to reduce city centre congestion by 30% whilst raising more funds for local transport facilities. Some estimates put the potential revenues as high as £1.5 billion over 15 years. That should be enough to buy every resident their own jump jet to get into town...

[XM5ER]

And so it begins.

[craigw]

bad luck, my journey to work ends about 30 feet inside the zone. Whole journey now takes much longer than before but I get to pay a fiver for the priveledge. The best bit is when you very occasionally forget then it costs you £40, brilliant!

[Don]

Yes. It begins. This will be bad for those working there. But it will be worse for those visiting. How do you know that you are approaching the zone. And if you inadvertently drive through it, say whilst looking for a parking space whilst on holiday, how will you know you have to pay. Until you find the fecking fine two weeks later when you get back - along with the next fine for not paying promptly.

I depair I really do. Red Ken can feck off. And now Edinburgh Council can as well. Its getting to the point where you'll need a Roadpilot just to have the slightest chance of getting anywhere without falling afoul of these insane schemes.

[count duckula]

Money grabbing b4stards the lot of them. I hope the amount of tourists visiting takes a big dive.

They are all going to start on the band wagon soon.


Malc

[flat in fifth]

Anyone think there is any connection with this and Edinburgh's connection with the infamous Mr David Begg?

And you're right Don, always been a plan to go up to the festival one summer, they can !! (something with 2 L's in it!)

So that's London, Durham, Wales and now Edinburgh I won't spend any money in!

When will they learn?

[Sgt^Roc]

Begg is that not the bloke they paid to ensure their scheme will work, I'd say this labour gov is the must corrupt for long time

[agent006]

Mr (Dr?) Begg is currently resident of Aberdeen Busines School.

[HiRich]

"The scheme would be operated via cameras much like London's congestion zone. Entry into the city would cost around £2."

So. The London scheme costs a fiver, catches far more people, and Crapita can't make a decent profit on it.

And someone reckons they can do it for £2, the same mechanic, and a fraction of the traffic. I think I can smell Bullplop.

[Jinx]

I don't quite understand how they got to the figures quoted - given that red Ken has had to bail out Capita to the sum of £30mil, because the scheme worked and less people travelled into central London?

[Byff]

They have to pay for the new Scottish Parliment building somehow.

[XM5ER]

They've started congestion creation schemes around Stockport and Manchester in the last few week You know they kind of thing, traffic lights which now only let 2 people through, bus lanes becoming permanent instead of just at certain times, inexplicable road layout changes and no entry signs forcing you to go the long way round. In many respects wish the British were more like the French ie not prepared to bend over and take up the proverbial all the time. I think I'll join Al Quaida.

[shadowninja]

Not that any of us are going to do anything about it anyway... or are you?

[haggishead]

As you say, this scheme was dreamt up when David Begg was convener of the Council's transport committee.

First, the politically correct argument "We're going to bring in congestion charging to reduce congestion and make the streets better and put the money into public transport improvements so people don't have to use their car any more"

Oh yeah?

Let's do the sums...

If the objective is to reduce congestion, then we make the charge huge. Then nobody will pay it. Zero congestion. Objective achieved.

Not quite. Then you have no money coming in. You can't pay for public transport improvements. Uproar. Political suicide. Can't have that. So keep the charge low.

BUT - low charge means no deterrent. Everybody just pays it. Efeect on congestion? Very little. Lots of money raised though. Excellent!

Avhievement of stated transport objectine? Em.. ach let's not worry about that now, eh?

Which way is your councillor going to vote there, eh?

[haggishead]

I wish I could type...

[hedgerley]

I have to agree with the sentiments expressed here, but as I have just arrived home after using the bus park and ride I have to say that Edinburgh is at least making the effort.

Going in this morning from Fife in the rush hour, blitzing the jams using the bus lanes and bus triggered traffic lights and jumping off right in the town centre, 250 yards from where my meeting was, was brilliant. Very pleasant coach, not a grotbag bus and £4 return. The journey this morning was 25 minutes - its at least an hour in the car at that time.

A days parking would be at least £15 - £20 (which we can now pay by mobile phone by the way, so no rushing out to feed the meter), plus a gallon of go juice and not forgetting that other tax, the bridge toll (80p, even though they finished paying for it in about 1980....)

We also have the train which is £3.50 off peak. Both bus and train stations have ample free parking 5 minutes from where I live.

OK, its bit a bit of a downer if you have to drive into the zone to work and neither bus or train are convenient. But for me, much as it galls me to admit it, public transport (spit) works. They are even planning to bring back trams in 2006!

Edited to add - IBM are already pitching for the business. Check this out [url]www.silicon.com/hardware/pdas/0,39024643,39116866,00.htm?nl=20031113[/]

>> Edited by hedgerley on Friday 14th November 00:22

>> Edited by hedgerley on Friday 14th November 00:40

[XM5ER]

Lets face it congestion charging is there to make up for the shortfall in revenue caused by so many people shifting to diesel and economical petrol cars. Which ever way you look at it we are going to pay.

[Flat in Fifth]

agent006 said:

Mr (Dr?) Begg is currently resident of Aberdeen Busines School.

006 if you read this thread you'll understand that when I wrote Mr David Begg above I had got the sarcasm button set = on

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=56453&f=10&h=0&hw=Professor

>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Saturday 15th November 07:50

[kneegrow]

Driving into a city with one person in a car is freakin ridiculous and all those selfish punks should be hit heavily in the pocket. I reckon they should have a system of 1 person=£5 2 or more free. That would sort out 90% of the problem. Stinging all the motorists is just piracy and public transport is a disgrace. However, if you don't like the conditions of the city, don't live there. You get payed loads more than rural people, so either join them or shut up!

[Size Nine Elm]

There's a proposed legal action by the councils of all the suburban areas around Edinburgh, since the people this will hit most are commuters. There is a proposal for them to charge anyone coming out of Edinburgh instead...

For the last year I was commuting by train into Edinburgh, after a 5 min drive to the local station.

Then I found a car park, city centre, with a weekly ticket of £15. Bye bye trains... takes me the same time from home->work, and no nasty failure ridden late service.

If Edinburgh Council were serious about reducing congestion, they would rip out the thousands of speed humps, chicanes, bus stop build-outs, bus lanes, red light phasing, advance cycle stop lines, and plan for transport rather than congestion.

But no, instead they are also planning on a new tram lines through the middle of the city , obviously not aware of the £millions Croydon and West Bromwich (I think) have lost on trams, quote apart from setting inflexible steel rails into the roads environment - nice for bikes and cycles - and completely inflexible in cases of failure.

I'm in the process of setting up a new company, and it sure ain't going to be paying any revenue to EDC if I can help it. Policies like this *will* drive commerce elsewhere, and EDC can run a haven for dole merchants riding on buses.

(Oops, that became a bit of a rant... deservedly so)