Elise S vs Elise R
Discussion
The test results suggest there is very little difference in 0 to 60 and only 1 sec in 0 to 100. Thats obviously using the full rev range so I wouldnt be surprised to find the R was a bit slower under 6200 rpm.
I got the R because I knew in my heart that if I bought the S I would always regret not having got the faster car. The sensible carefully chosen logical decision is never the right one when you're buying the sort of car that is basically daft anyway!
I do get a kick out of the surge above 6200 and I do think the 6 speed box is a nicer one. As far as I can gather, the R is an easier resale too.
Its all theoretical in real world road use anyway. Then I usually find the fastest car is the one with the driver who cared least about his licence and his safety and thats never me.
I got the R because I knew in my heart that if I bought the S I would always regret not having got the faster car. The sensible carefully chosen logical decision is never the right one when you're buying the sort of car that is basically daft anyway!
I do get a kick out of the surge above 6200 and I do think the 6 speed box is a nicer one. As far as I can gather, the R is an easier resale too.
Its all theoretical in real world road use anyway. Then I usually find the fastest car is the one with the driver who cared least about his licence and his safety and thats never me.
I have an NA Exige so same engine as an R. In contrast to Gooby, I had a loan Elise S for a couple of weeks and really loved it. Far easier to drive quickly. On the assumption the R is pretty much the same as my Exige I would say the R would be more entertaining when really driven hard but if I was looking for an everyday car I'd possibly have an S.
You really need to drive both back to back and then compare how they suit your driving style.
You really need to drive both back to back and then compare how they suit your driving style.
Yep,you really need to drive both as its a marmite thing.
I drove an R against an S and hated it.
The all or nothing power delivery did'nt suit me at all and i found the S had more low down torque and felt better balanced chassis/engine wise.
Recently drove an n/a 2-11 and it confirmed my initial thoughts about the engine,you need to be 'on it' all the time.
A friend of mine has an R and loves it,would'nt swap for an S,and vise versa for me.
Its good not to like the same things
I drove an R against an S and hated it.
The all or nothing power delivery did'nt suit me at all and i found the S had more low down torque and felt better balanced chassis/engine wise.
Recently drove an n/a 2-11 and it confirmed my initial thoughts about the engine,you need to be 'on it' all the time.
A friend of mine has an R and loves it,would'nt swap for an S,and vise versa for me.
Its good not to like the same things
21TonyK said:
The Bandit said:
So,to answer to OP,the S has more torque than the R below 6500rpm which makes 'real world' driving a little easier(imho).
When the R is on 2nd cam though,it bloody flies
Thats pretty much how I see it. S for every day and R for recreation.When the R is on 2nd cam though,it bloody flies
On track the S is a hell of a lot of fun still
we need someone to overlay the power graphs.
i am in the market for an S, for lots of reasons:
new to RWD
new to rear mass bias
wet cumbrian roads
0 pts ever (smug grin smiley)
mech sympathy, dont think ill ever rev an engine over 5k rpm, engine wear is exponential after that.
an excellent Q from the OP, i will dig for some nerd stats
i am in the market for an S, for lots of reasons:
new to RWD
new to rear mass bias
wet cumbrian roads
0 pts ever (smug grin smiley)
mech sympathy, dont think ill ever rev an engine over 5k rpm, engine wear is exponential after that.
an excellent Q from the OP, i will dig for some nerd stats
http://www.rri.se/index.php?DN=29
As far as i can see, identical up to 6000, then very different.
Actually this looks quite convincing for the R, after all it is a sports car.
Have overlaid the S on the R graph in blue.
As far as i can see, identical up to 6000, then very different.
Actually this looks quite convincing for the R, after all it is a sports car.
Have overlaid the S on the R graph in blue.
Edited by bencollins on Saturday 28th March 17:06
source info and other stuff from www.rri.se
Then there is this but no Elise S spotted to overlay.
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D336%...
Then there is this but no Elise S spotted to overlay.
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D336%...
Most interesting would be an S, R and SC overlay minus the torque, just the power. Im guessing that would really sell the SC. I work with charged gasoline engines so im obviously a fan of the early low down power they develop.
The best comparison managed was here:
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D569_...
I havent worked out how to dump this into a reply tho so the link will have to do!
Although as we know the S and R are identical to 6000 that shows alot.
The most telling stat is that the S and R are at 5500 rpmish to develop 100hp at the wheels while the SC is there around 3800. Considering the exponential parasitic losses at higher revs this should mean an enthusiastically driven SC will be significantly more economical than an S or R.
But that is not really shown up in the hopeless testing scenario the EU / US use for their testing stats.
Some comparison problems arise from whether this is power at the wheels, engine and whether the engine is tight etc.
The best comparison managed was here:
http://www.dyno-plot.co.uk/dyno/dynoplot/id%3D569_...
I havent worked out how to dump this into a reply tho so the link will have to do!
Although as we know the S and R are identical to 6000 that shows alot.
The most telling stat is that the S and R are at 5500 rpmish to develop 100hp at the wheels while the SC is there around 3800. Considering the exponential parasitic losses at higher revs this should mean an enthusiastically driven SC will be significantly more economical than an S or R.
But that is not really shown up in the hopeless testing scenario the EU / US use for their testing stats.
Some comparison problems arise from whether this is power at the wheels, engine and whether the engine is tight etc.
Edited by bencollins on Saturday 28th March 18:07
I drove all of them (K-series 111s, Toyota S,R and SC).
For everyday road driving the S is great. Just enough power. But no more.
However the Elise is not a car that you buy rationally. You buy it because you're a petrolhead.
You like the occasional squeeze of the pedal and the acceleration.
So even though pound for pound the S is logical, you'll always be hungry for more power if you choose it.
There are soo many S for sale,
I suspect it's many 1st time owners that after a few months were tired at being raced by hot hatches and not winning...
For everyday road driving the S is great. Just enough power. But no more.
However the Elise is not a car that you buy rationally. You buy it because you're a petrolhead.
You like the occasional squeeze of the pedal and the acceleration.
So even though pound for pound the S is logical, you'll always be hungry for more power if you choose it.
There are soo many S for sale,
I suspect it's many 1st time owners that after a few months were tired at being raced by hot hatches and not winning...
edo said:
I drove all of them (K-series 111s, Toyota S,R and SC).
For everyday road driving the S is great. Just enough power. But no more.
However the Elise is not a car that you buy rationally. You buy it because you're a petrolhead.
You like the occasional squeeze of the pedal and the acceleration.
So even though pound for pound the S is logical, you'll always be hungry for more power if you choose it.
There are soo many S for sale,
I suspect it's many 1st time owners that after a few months were tired at being raced by hot hatches and not winning...
Sorry Ed but that is so inaccurate its funny!For everyday road driving the S is great. Just enough power. But no more.
However the Elise is not a car that you buy rationally. You buy it because you're a petrolhead.
You like the occasional squeeze of the pedal and the acceleration.
So even though pound for pound the S is logical, you'll always be hungry for more power if you choose it.
There are soo many S for sale,
I suspect it's many 1st time owners that after a few months were tired at being raced by hot hatches and not winning...
Lots for sale?Most of the ones on PH are brand new zero milers bought in for stock or demo's.
Racing hot hatches?? If thats what you do on the road then you've bought the wrong car anyway...buy a Scooby for that s
t.Daft cock swinging about power output is pointless.Its about what you like and what suits you and your style.
I'm not going to get into a row about it but suffice to say the 'logical' S was Evo's PCOTY in 2006 and is widely praised for its engine/chassis balance-much like the 118bhp S1 was
Threads like this always end up as 'mines better than yours na na' so best leave the OP to make up his own mind
(FWIW im doing my suspension and brakes and thats it.Im very happy with 134bhp and dont mind admitting it
) Get a supercharged one, then you can ps off the Scoobies as well.
You know it makes sense. Especially if you like torque and don't get a hardon from bouncing the engine off an 8500 rpm limiter.
That said, the Honda vtec engines rev sky high and aren't renowned for failure...
Perhaps an R engined car with an ECU frig to lower the cam-change point would be the best of both worlds?
(note that I love supercharged engines, and have had a fair few, and that's why I've got an Exige S)
s off the Scoobies as well.You know it makes sense. Especially if you like torque and don't get a hardon from bouncing the engine off an 8500 rpm limiter.
That said, the Honda vtec engines rev sky high and aren't renowned for failure...
Perhaps an R engined car with an ECU frig to lower the cam-change point would be the best of both worlds?
(note that I love supercharged engines, and have had a fair few, and that's why I've got an Exige S)
The Bandit said:
!
Lots for sale?Most of the ones on PH are brand new zero milers bought in for stock or demo's.
I'm not going to get into a row about it but suffice to say the 'logical' S was Evo's PCOTY in 2006 and is widely praised for its engine/chassis balance-much like the 118bhp S1 was
(FWIW im doing my suspension and brakes and thats it.Im very happy with 134bhp and dont mind admitting it )
Well i too be happy with an S if i can find the right one before the Euro buyers come in and buy everything in sight. There arent very many for sale as it is. It is easy to like the Lotus brand, when all other car prices are crashing Lotus consolidates!Lots for sale?Most of the ones on PH are brand new zero milers bought in for stock or demo's.
I'm not going to get into a row about it but suffice to say the 'logical' S was Evo's PCOTY in 2006 and is widely praised for its engine/chassis balance-much like the 118bhp S1 was
(FWIW im doing my suspension and brakes and thats it.Im very happy with 134bhp and dont mind admitting it
) Though i can see why an SC or R is attractive to with more oomph.
Power isnt everything, when audi made the r8 with a V10 people on forums said "now it will be fast enough". Another 2 cylinders and even heavier drivetrain to add yet more weight on cornering doesnt make it faster, still only four ovals of rubber on the road and vehicle mass x G trying to loosen that. They would have been better adding 2 more wheels for six contact patches, erm probably.
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