Road Trip almost Cancelled ~ HELP !!

[ourchris]

Hello, all

Posted about 2 weeks ago, really excited about my impending trip to the South of France with Mrs ourchris, asking for advice on what to do with the Griff before I went (and explaining how volcanic with rage Mrs ourchris would be if it broke....)

Had some really useful advice ~ thanks all !!

So. Last Thursday, loaded the car up, and went to work in it. Plan was to collect Mrs after work from Bristol, and off we go !!

Got into car after work, started and drove half a mile down the road and decided to fill up. Got back to it. NO START !!

Oh Cack ! ~ It was as if the engine was getting no fuel. Phoned the AA, who promised to be there in an hour, thankfully. Hour and 45 later, the man turns up.

Me ~ I think its fuel pump, battery or something else electric ??
Him ~ Battery. Its flat(ish)
Me ~ Are you sure ?? I did crank it over quite a lot
Him ~ Battery. Lets jump start it.

So, it starts. We leave it running, and he then tries to sell me a battery. About 1 minute later, it stops, and displays the same symptoms on trying to start it again (as if it was trying to catch on a few cylinders, but couldnt). This was with the powerpack on.

Him ~ well, its not the battery, then, although it is F&$cked. Its showing 8 volts.
Me ~ is it the fuel pump, or something electrical ??
Him ~ must be the fuel pump. Ill get it towed in under an hour

Phoned Mrs ourchris at this point. If you saw a woman in Bristol Parkway with a 4 pack of Carling, looking to murder the entire male population, apologies. She got the train to Cardiff after consuming the above lager beverage.

Hour and 45 later, got picked up by the nicest recovery driver I have met. (I used to own several Lancias and a few Freelanders) and recovered to Cardiff. Mrs ourchris was now on the Gin.

So, we went on holiday in the Mighty Astra eco-flex with its 50mpg air con comfort. Holiday was great, we did 2000 plus miles in just over a week, but it wasn't the adventure in the TVR, you know ?

So. Please can you help me diagnose the problem ??

I think I do have a duff battery, but do I have fuel pump or other electrical gremlins ??

All advice, or things I can do would be so greatly appreciated !!

Mrs ourchris wants to trade it in for a Nissan Micra Convertible..... please help !!

[GJR]

Chris , First off gotta say it's a shame you didn't have the Griff running for your trip to France. After your post a few weeks ago I was expecting you to have a brilliant time. But... stand firm! DO NOT buy a micra convertible !?!? Stay away from the Nissan Garage !!!

The problem you describe could be a number of things, which is no help I know. I doubt it's the battery. Although you say it was reading 8V I would have thought that not to be unusual if you'd been cranking the car over for some time. Everyone has different experiences with batteries, but in my limited experience when they get to the end of their life they really struggle to turn over the engine, even after charging and recovery time. The fact that you say the car was 'trying to catch on a few cylinders, but couldn't, suggests a fuel supply or other electrical problem. Indeed the fact that you told the AA guy you'd been cranking it over a lot suggests the battery is in good enough nick.

It could be a problem with the engine electrics (HT, dizzy, coil etc.), or it could be a failing fuel pump, a fuel line blockage ?!?!?? But my knowledge ends there I think you can sometimes get evaporation in the fuel lines, but I'd imagine this would only happen on extremely hot days !?! When you turn the electrics on do you get the whirr from the fuel pump to suggest it's priming ok?

I'd say that unless you're happy to play/resolve the problem yourself you'd be better taking the car to a good indy to get the issue sorted. All cars have problems, even euro/jap boxes! Don't be put off by this. Don't buy a micra !

Edited by GJR on Sunday 29th March 23:23

[V8 GRF]

100 amp fuse?

[HRG]

If it jumps then runs out of volts it's the charging circuit, not the battery itself. Easiest way to prove that is to stick the battery on charge overnight.

If it was getting charge from the alternator then it would run indefinitely...

[UpTheIron]

V8 GRF said:

100 amp fuse?

WHS

[Pasco]

V8 GRF said:

100 amp fuse?

Or the famous hot start problem we see from time to time easily solved by a modwise hot start kit look up David Beer he's the fella

[blitzracing]

The exact reason for the hot start issue is the wiring for the starter solenoid goies via the immobiliser, which is quite a long wire run of skinny wire. This means a couple of volts is lost due to resistance when you apply power to the starter soleniod. When cold this is not a problem, but as the solenoid gets hot under the exhaust the windings resistance goes up, so combined with the long wire run the whole system cant flow enough current to pull the soleniod in. Hence nothing more than a slight click if you are lucky. The hot start kit simply puts an extra relay to allow the 12volt supply to the soleniod to come more directly from the battery without the long cable run.

[Pasco]

blitzracing said:

The exact reason for the hot start issue is the wiring for the starter solenoid goies via the immobiliser, which is quite a long wire run of skinny wire. This means a couple of volts is lost due to resistance when you apply power to the starter soleniod. When cold this is not a problem, but as the solenoid gets hot under the exhaust the windings resistance goes up, so combined with the long wire run the whole system cant flow enough current to pull the soleniod in. Hence nothing more than a slight click if you are lucky. The hot start kit simply puts an extra relay to allow the 12volt supply to the soleniod to come more directly from the battery without the long cable run.

Spot on Mark

[Ballistic Banana]

I doubt it's a hot start prob if you got it running and then It conked out a few minutes later. Generally the hot start prob only happens once stopped and then trying to restart. So I would put that right at the back of the list for now.
Firstly I think you need to determine if it's a fueling or electrical prob?

BB

[Pasco]

Ballistic Banana said:

I doubt it's a hot start prob if you got it running and then It conked out a few minutes later. Generally the hot start prob only happens once stopped and then trying to restart. So I would put that right at the back of the list for now.
Firstly I think you need to determine if it's a fueling or electrical prob?

BB

I know what you mean Simon but he drove it from work and nipped in to fill it up, paid the money and would not start and that's where i used to get the problem so bloody embarrassing I could hear the other folks filling up saying under there breath what do you expect its a TVR hence my comment

[Hoover.]

Your missus likes a drink ..... can't all be bad

sympathis with you ..... spent the last year chasing electrical gremlins.... hopefully all sorted now .... Goodluck

[ourchris]

Hello, all

Got my first chance to have a look at it today. Fuel pump is not priming, but I can turn the engine over now I have juice in the battery...

I guess from reading on here it could be immobiliser, fuel pump, relay, fuse or blocked filter, but I am guessing (hoping) that due to the fact that it ran and just stopped as though the ignition had been cut it will be a relay issue. Ill let you know what I find....

Is the fuel pump relay and fuse in the passenger footwell ????

If anyone has any idea where to start first, that would be great.

Thanks

[yellowgriff]

Find your nearest (GOOD) auto electrican,, 15 minutes with a meter plugged in & a good electrican will come up with the problem,, if your not a member of the AA sounds like now the time to join(for a cheap recovery) a clever person armed with their meter with save you hours & hours plus HAIR LOSS,,, Cheers GOLDIE

[ray_von]

Fuel pump relay is in the passenger footwell. not on the fuse board though it's one of the Bosch silver ones that are lying loose on top of the battery. They are a regular cause of problems, chuck a spare one in the glovebox

[ourchris]

AAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH

OK. Its like this....

I am really lucky to have a TVR specialist within 10 mins walk of the house. So off I potter this morning to have a chat about what was wrong with it. After a chat, he gives me a relay to try and some instructions on what to do (thanks Roath Garage), with the words pay me later if it works (!), and so off I potter to try the relay....

Open the car and "give it one last go" before messing with the relays

BLEEDIN THING STARTS FIRST TIME !!!!!

AAAAAGGGHHHH !!!!

Its down Roath Garage now for diagnosis