Toyotas penalty Appeal - Hamilton disqualified

[Wanta996Gotta]

Interesting that Mclaren could not find this loophole last year at Spa

Toyota have confirmed their intention to appeal, an announcement that has resulted in a few raised eyebrows given that Hamilton's own appeal against 25 seconds - the equivalent of a drive-through penalty - being retrospectively added to his time in last year's Belgian GP was thrown out by a FIA hearing declaring that drive-through penalties could not be challenged. However, according to reports, Toyota have found a loophole to bypass that stipulation and have appealed to the clerk of the Melbourne circuit rather than the stewards themselves.

Full Story here - http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5120919...

[Marcia]

look at the footage what was lewis meant to do slow down and let him back on,if trulli can't keep the car on the track,thats his loss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qKS9BppALQ

[Wanta996Gotta]

Marcia said:

look at the footage what was lewis meant to do slow down and let him back on,if trulli can't keep the car on the track,thats his loss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qKS9BppALQ

Of course, Lewis had nothing else to do when Trulli wnt off the track. The Mclaren team are obviously very paranoid about the FIA and you could argue wrongly instructed Lewis to give the position back. Strange, i do think that the 25 seconf penalty is a disgrace though, i assumed he would get 4th place at worsed.

[anonymous-user]

If Lewis effectively forced Trulli to take the position back following orders from his team, then it's not a fair penalty, if Trulli forced his way past Lewis it is a fair penalty. That should have been what the stewards decided on. Unfortunately the options available to the stewards in terms of what penalty can be applied don't allow for a switch in positions, as common sense would suggest would be fair in the circumstances.

[Maty]

Ok then, what does the rule book state for that situation? Was that definitly under the safety car?? Hamilton had no choice really, what was he supposed to do, stop and wait for trulli to get back on track??

The penalty doesn't fit the crime either, why 25 seconds, why not just drop him a place?

[Nick M]

Wouldn't it be nice if McLaren were to give evidence in support of Toyota's explanation of events, i.e. confirming they told LH to let JT back past him.

Would be both a sporting jesture, but also further proof of how united the teams were [+]

[AlpineWhite]

Maty said:

Ok then, what does the rule book state for that situation? Was that definitly under the safety car?? Hamilton had no choice really, what was he supposed to do, stop and wait for trulli to get back on track??

The penalty doesn't fit the crime either, why 25 seconds, why not just drop him a place?

The penalty wpuld normally be a 10sec stop/go, but it was in the last 3 laps. A 25sec demotion is applied instead.

[PulsatingStar]

Specifics of this one aside, if you go off under the safety car you deserve some sort of penalty anyway imo. Its not really an acceptable thing to be happening. Looks like Glock was off track too in that clip?!

[hornetrider]

Maty said:

The penalty doesn't fit the crime either, why 25 seconds, why not just drop him a place?

That does seem logical when you first think about it - however there is no 'penalty' to the offending driver if he is simply returned to where he was before his transgression.

If you overtake under the safety car there should be an element of punishment in order to deter drivers from undertaking such an action.

[Maty]

hornetrider said:

Maty said:

The penalty doesn't fit the crime either, why 25 seconds, why not just drop him a place?

That does seem logical when you first think about it - however there is no 'penalty' to the offending driver if he is simply returned to where he was before his transgression.

If you overtake under the safety car there should be an element of punishment in order to deter drivers from undertaking such an action.

Ah yes, didn't think about it that way.

What the hell was Trulli doing on the grass anyway during a SC?? He must have been going for it.

[hornetrider]

Maty said:

hornetrider said:

Maty said:

The penalty doesn't fit the crime either, why 25 seconds, why not just drop him a place?

That does seem logical when you first think about it - however there is no 'penalty' to the offending driver if he is simply returned to where he was before his transgression.

If you overtake under the safety car there should be an element of punishment in order to deter drivers from undertaking such an action.

Ah yes, didn't think about it that way.

What the hell was Trulli doing on the grass anyway during a SC?? He must have been going for it.

Yeah a bit strange. If you look at the clip above (before Bernie deletes it!) you can see another Toyota went off at the same place 10 seconds later - but managed to return to the track before losing any places.

[german tony]

What stands out most here is that the SC rules don't appear to be general knowledge to the teams or the drivers or indeed anybody else.

That's the FIA's fault.

[PulsatingStar]

hornetrider said:

Maty said:

hornetrider said:

Maty said:

The penalty doesn't fit the crime either, why 25 seconds, why not just drop him a place?

That does seem logical when you first think about it - however there is no 'penalty' to the offending driver if he is simply returned to where he was before his transgression.

If you overtake under the safety car there should be an element of punishment in order to deter drivers from undertaking such an action.

Ah yes, didn't think about it that way.

What the hell was Trulli doing on the grass anyway during a SC?? He must have been going for it.

Yeah a bit strange. If you look at the clip above (before Bernie deletes it!) you can see another Toyota went off at the same place 10 seconds later - but managed to return to the track before losing any places.

Yes thats partly my point. Aside from it being unsafe going off behind a safety car you could argue he only didnt lose places as everyone behind had slowed down accordingly.

[deadslow]

Nick M said:

Wouldn't it be nice if McLaren were to give evidence in support of Toyota's explanation of events, i.e. confirming they told LH to let JT back past him.

Would be both a sporting jesture, but also further proof of how united the teams were [+]

[Marcia]

Marcia said:

look at the footage what was lewis meant to do slow down and let him back on,if trulli can't keep the car on the track,thats his loss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qKS9BppALQ

It seems someone has removed this footage,wonder who .

[RogueMotorsport]

Maty said:

What the hell was Trulli doing on the grass anyway during a SC?? He must have been going for it.

I thought this too, until the commentator pointed out that the tyres would have cooled to the point of not gripping any more. The fact that the other Toyota displayed the same behaviour backs up the theory that it's a car / tyre issue rather than a driver one. Didn't Sutil(?) end up off the circuit on the formation lap? And I'm sure there was a team radio clip of Hamilton complaining that his tyres went cold almost immediately under the first saftey car, not to mention the Ferraris contantly locking up their fronts.

[anonymous-user]

yep, Lewis actually said his tyres were cold and he wasn't sure he could get them back up to temperature once the race restarted, that shows just how wrong they were for the conditions. If you've ever driven on slicks a compound too hard for the ambient temperature you'll understand how it's like driving on ice until you get them lit up again. Buttons restart onto the pit straight illustrated pretty well how dodgey the tyres were at that point, he had quite a snap and was lucky/skillful enough to catch it.

[heebeegeetee]

The clip might still be here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcVyepOPuQ&eur...

In the Glock incident, after the corner it looks like a Renault passes a Red Bull...

[anonymous-user]

The Red Bull only has 3 wheels on it's wagon.

[FourWheelDrift]

But you aren't supposed to pass anyone who's on the track before the line on the restart.