Engine sound when on KERS boost
Discussion
Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere. If it has, I couldn't spot it!
Anyway, before watching the GP last weekend I was expecting the engine note to just start increasing more rapidly when the KERS boost button was pressed. But from the on car footage, it sounded more like the engine note dropped as if changing up a gear. Did any one else notice this or am I going a bit loopy? I just wondered why this would be the case, any of you F1 experts got any idea?
Anyway, before watching the GP last weekend I was expecting the engine note to just start increasing more rapidly when the KERS boost button was pressed. But from the on car footage, it sounded more like the engine note dropped as if changing up a gear. Did any one else notice this or am I going a bit loopy? I just wondered why this would be the case, any of you F1 experts got any idea?
I noticed this on the onboard shots of Lewis Hamilton. I too thought I was going loopy or there was a problem with the sound.
Lewis seemed to be accelerating along and the engine note was rising, as you would expect. Then all of a sudden it would dip and sound like it was rising again from a lower note.
Glad I wasn't the only person to notice this. So, not loopy (yet)!
Lewis seemed to be accelerating along and the engine note was rising, as you would expect. Then all of a sudden it would dip and sound like it was rising again from a lower note.
Glad I wasn't the only person to notice this. So, not loopy (yet)!
FourWheelDrift said:
I noticed that but it didn't seem to correspond with his use of the KERS on the screen graphics.
I thought he was changing up early or even missing a gear, perhaps trying to make sure the same failure didn't occur that he had in qualifying.
It wasn't just on Hamilton's car though, I thought it was the poor signal from Australia (as usual). I thought he was changing up early or even missing a gear, perhaps trying to make sure the same failure didn't occur that he had in qualifying.
When the graphics showed the KERS working on various cars, I couldn't hear any difference. (I think it was Heidfeld).
I thought the graphic showed how much charge was left at the start finish line? Some cars appeared to cross the line with spare KERS still in the 'tank'.
Also wasn't lewis simply feeding a little bit in here and there so I doubt you would notice much compared to a driver going for a full discharge. Brundle suggested you trickle it in as soon as the wheels stop spinning. So subtle boosts coming out of corners once you have traction.
Also wasn't lewis simply feeding a little bit in here and there so I doubt you would notice much compared to a driver going for a full discharge. Brundle suggested you trickle it in as soon as the wheels stop spinning. So subtle boosts coming out of corners once you have traction.
I reckon the sound was messed up as it just did not seem to follow what you were watching...
Also, the Ker's state on the graphic was a little messed up, if you watched it (only got to see it on the McLaren) he came onto pit straight and emptied it, then before he lifted off (to brake for turn 1) it was full again?
Also, the Ker's state on the graphic was a little messed up, if you watched it (only got to see it on the McLaren) he came onto pit straight and emptied it, then before he lifted off (to brake for turn 1) it was full again?
The odd changes in the pitch of the engines were noticeable in the coverage from last year also, so can't be KERS related. I suspect it may be an anomaly caused by digital sound processing covering up a drop out in the signal.
The KERS graphic is misleading. I'm pretty sure it just indicates the remaining proportion of the mandated max time per lap (7sec?) that the button can be pressed - hence why it magically 're-charges' as the car crosses the line.
What we'd really like to see (and I think many people are confusing the current graphic for) is the stored energy in the system. This would be seen to deplete when the driver is using the 'boost' and replenish under braking.
The KERS graphic is misleading. I'm pretty sure it just indicates the remaining proportion of the mandated max time per lap (7sec?) that the button can be pressed - hence why it magically 're-charges' as the car crosses the line.
What we'd really like to see (and I think many people are confusing the current graphic for) is the stored energy in the system. This would be seen to deplete when the driver is using the 'boost' and replenish under braking.
Norbury90 said:
KERS refills as you cross the finish line. You then have 1 full charge to last you until the start of the next lap.
would you like to elaborate on this?My point was that how can KERS charge when the engine is running flat out and no brakes applied?
(I am assuming there are some rules around this like only one 'charge' per lap??)
Scuffers said:
Norbury90 said:
KERS refills as you cross the finish line. You then have 1 full charge to last you until the start of the next lap.
would you like to elaborate on this?My point was that how can KERS charge when the engine is running flat out and no brakes applied?
(I am assuming there are some rules around this like only one 'charge' per lap??)
Norbury90 said:
Scuffers said:
Norbury90 said:
KERS refills as you cross the finish line. You then have 1 full charge to last you until the start of the next lap.
would you like to elaborate on this?My point was that how can KERS charge when the engine is running flat out and no brakes applied?
(I am assuming there are some rules around this like only one 'charge' per lap??)
if it's charged under brakes (as one would assume) why did the graphic show it going from empty to full in ~1 sec when the car is still on full throttle?
Scuffers said:
sorry, I must be missing something...
if it's charged under brakes (as one would assume) why did the graphic show it going from empty to full in ~1 sec when the car is still on full throttle?
Read my post above ^^^^^if it's charged under brakes (as one would assume) why did the graphic show it going from empty to full in ~1 sec when the car is still on full throttle?
I think the graphic just counts down the allowable KERS 'boost' duration per lap, hence why it magically replenishes at the start of the new lap.
Would be much more interesting (and the battery graphic would make much more sense) if it was a true indication of the energy storage status.
ph123 said:
... because it's not actually 'empty'.
The 7 seconds worth is used as indicated, but it's not the total reserve.
That right?
I don't think that the battery graphic bears ANY relation to the actual 'reserve' or energy storage status - it just reflects the proportion of the maximum allowed DURATION that the 'boost button' has been engaged for the current lap.The 7 seconds worth is used as indicated, but it's not the total reserve.
That right?
Indeed its very unlikely at most circuits that the system will have the highest energy stored when crossing the line. The first corner is very often a good passing opportunity (being at the end of what is often the longest straight). You would therefore expect that the KERS boost would be used to get good drive out of the final corner for the slip stream along the straight.
If the rules allowed a system that allowed 7 secs of stored energy to be released per lap at a a rate equivalent to 80BHP, the I think it would be sensible to store more than 80bhp for 7secs. At least then the driver won't run dry of KERS power at the first corner, because he hasn't had opportunity to charge fully.
Steve
Steve
stevesingo said:
If the rules allowed a system that allowed 7 secs of stored energy to be released per lap at a a rate equivalent to 80BHP, the I think it would be sensible to store more than 80bhp for 7secs. At least then the driver won't run dry of KERS power at the first corner, because he hasn't had opportunity to charge fully.
Steve
this is where I have missed it...Steve
re-reading the rules:
The FIA has defined the amount of energy recovery for the 2009 season as 400kJ per lap giving the driver an extra 80hp over a period of 6.67 seconds.
can't see anything about total storage capacity....
As friederich sugests, the graphic battery bar shows the amount of time left on that lap to use the KERS, which is why it goes back to full when they cross the line. The graphic changes colour from red to yellow when it's being used as a boost. The driver can set how the KERS works, either in small bursts or as a one hit release.
They can also choose how aggressive the charging of the system is, which happens under braking. When the KERS is charging, it effectively acts as an additional rear brake, so if you have an aggressive charge you can lock the rear wheels up under braking. The drivers will be altering the brake bias on the fly to help balance out when the KERS charge happens, so in the wet you may find it's not possible to charge the KERS fully because of brake balance issues.
I don't know if it's allowed or not, but I'd be very tempted if it is allowed, to use KERS to go past the 18Krpm limit to stretch a lower gear, allowing you to run closer ratios at the higher speed end of the ratio set, you'd still get the spark and fuel cut at 18K, but the engine could rev past that using the KERS feed. I doubt that is allowed but it would be a neat application of the technology in the low speed stuff, it wouldn't have enough torque to be useful in the higher speed stuff so wouldn't be any use to increase top speed as aero drag is too high.
They can also choose how aggressive the charging of the system is, which happens under braking. When the KERS is charging, it effectively acts as an additional rear brake, so if you have an aggressive charge you can lock the rear wheels up under braking. The drivers will be altering the brake bias on the fly to help balance out when the KERS charge happens, so in the wet you may find it's not possible to charge the KERS fully because of brake balance issues.
I don't know if it's allowed or not, but I'd be very tempted if it is allowed, to use KERS to go past the 18Krpm limit to stretch a lower gear, allowing you to run closer ratios at the higher speed end of the ratio set, you'd still get the spark and fuel cut at 18K, but the engine could rev past that using the KERS feed. I doubt that is allowed but it would be a neat application of the technology in the low speed stuff, it wouldn't have enough torque to be useful in the higher speed stuff so wouldn't be any use to increase top speed as aero drag is too high.
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