How many points of a head start can Ferrari/Mclaren give?

[Wanta996Gotta]

The diffuser 3 have shown not only in practice and qualifying that they are quick but that race pace is also fantastic. So,how much of a lead can the big boys give Brawn/Toyota before they are too far ahead to catch for the championships. The half points awarded yesterday were a let off for Mclaren/Ferrari.

This is on the idea that all cars are given the ability to use the infamous diffusers after the FIA hearing(April 14th)

Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Monday 6th April 11:39

[AlpineWhite]

Of course it depends on how fast the McLaren and Ferrari cars are once they are on a level playing field with regard to diffusers. It's difficult to imagine that they will suddenly have an edge over the BrawnGP car.

[E30M3SE]

Diffusers aside, Ferrari, unfortunately have 'other' issues.

[deadslow]

None this year. Money is tighter than ever and unusually they are both on the losing side of the developmental/technological/brains battle.

Vodaphone Brawn Mercedes has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

[Lost soul]

deadslow said:

Vodaphone Brawn Mercedes has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

I doubt Merc would sell their considerable stake in Mac

[Munter]

I think theres a lot more to the speed we're seeing than the diffuser. And therefore I'm really not sure if Mclaren or Ferrari will be able to reliably be up the front for enough of the year to take it.

It's going to be great watching them try though!

[Wanta996Gotta]

Munter said:

I think theres a lot more to the speed we're seeing than the diffuser. And therefore I'm really not sure if Mclaren or Ferrari will be able to reliably be up the front for enough of the year to take it.

It's going to be great watching them try though!

Not so sure as the Toyotas and Williams are just off the pace of the Brawns. There is too much of a coincidence that the diffuser cars are on a different level and i dont buy that there is something else as surely these 3 did not out think the Ferrari/Mclaren designers in other areas - It must be the diffuser.

[daveake]

Munter said:

I think theres a lot more to the speed we're seeing than the diffuser.

So do I. Look how much faster Button was than the double-diffuser cars of Trulli and Rosberg during the last 2 laps of his first stint. The Maccas and Fezzas will do will to catch up with Williams and Toyota let alone the Brawn cars.

Dave

[Munter]

Wanta996Gotta said:

Munter said:

I think theres a lot more to the speed we're seeing than the diffuser. And therefore I'm really not sure if Mclaren or Ferrari will be able to reliably be up the front for enough of the year to take it.

It's going to be great watching them try though!

Not so sure as the Toyotas and Williams are just off the pace of the Brawns. There is too much of a coincidence that the diffuser cars are on a different level and i dont buy that there is something else as surely these 3 did not out think the Ferrari/Mclaren designers in other areas - It must be the diffuser.

I suspect though that 3 teams which underperformed last year, started 2009 development early as they'd nothing to loose. And now appear to be up the front. I don't think they spent all that time coming up with and developing just the rear diffuser.

All guess work though.

[Wanta996Gotta]

Munter said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

Munter said:

I think theres a lot more to the speed we're seeing than the diffuser. And therefore I'm really not sure if Mclaren or Ferrari will be able to reliably be up the front for enough of the year to take it.

It's going to be great watching them try though!

Not so sure as the Toyotas and Williams are just off the pace of the Brawns. There is too much of a coincidence that the diffuser cars are on a different level and i dont buy that there is something else as surely these 3 did not out think the Ferrari/Mclaren designers in other areas - It must be the diffuser.

I suspect though that 3 teams which underperformed last year, started 2009 development early as they'd nothing to loose. And now appear to be up the front. I don't think they spent all that time coming up with and developing just the rear diffuser.

Very True but i would have thought that Renault would have done this and all Motorsport publications were singing and dancing about the BMW.

Briatore comments:- http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74327

[FourWheelDrift]

Of course you forget that a team struggling with a car last year started development work on a new car early and are reaping the benefits.

What's to stop McLaren or Ferrari doing the same this year and getting the jump on everyone next year?

They are still getting newspaper column inches and in Hamilton's case still finishing in the points so there can't be too much to lose. They could still end up 3rd or 4th in the constructors with good points.

[Munter]

FourWheelDrift said:

Of course you forget that a team struggling with a car last year started development work on a new car early and are reaping the benefits.

What's to stop McLaren or Ferrari doing the same this year and getting the jump on everyone next year?

They are still getting newspaper column inches and in Hamilton's case still finishing in the points so there can't be too much to lose. They could still end up 3rd or 4th in the constructors with good points.

Difference this year is that development on this (09) years car will feed into designs etc for next year (2010) as the regulations are largely the same.

Last year you could spend lot's of cash and more importantly man hours working on improving the car which would not feed into the 09 car design.

You are right though. With the budget and this years effort combined with the effort on the 2010 car at the same time they'll be back up the front from the word go.

[stephen300o]

E30M3SE said:

Diffusers aside, Ferrari, unfortunately have 'other' issues.

They are starting to look like 1980's Ferrari arn't they

[E30M3SE]

stephen300o said:

E30M3SE said:

Diffusers aside, Ferrari, unfortunately have 'other' issues.

They are starting to look like 1980's Ferrari arn't they

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

ETA, back to the 'good old days' where they couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Edited by E30M3SE on Monday 6th April 13:16

[Get Karter]

Red Bull looks one of the best cars. No double diffuser there. They could have had podiums at both races if unexpected events hadn't intervened.

[Mikeyboy]

E30M3SE said:

stephen300o said:

E30M3SE said:

Diffusers aside, Ferrari, unfortunately have 'other' issues.

They are starting to look like 1980's Ferrari arn't they

Yep, my thoughts exactly.

ETA, back to the 'good old days' where they couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.

Edited by E30M3SE on Monday 6th April 13:16

they showed signs of it last year with some of their pit stops, perhaps theres too many over emotional Italians in charge now and not enough cold calculating Brits, Germans and French?

And I have to say, Brawn is still a master tactician so even if the McMerc and Fezza boys catch up technologically he still looks like he knows how to get his cars out in front at the pit stops

[Altrezia]

FourWheelDrift said:

Of course you forget that a team struggling with a car last year started development work on a new car early and are reaping the benefits.

What's to stop McLaren or Ferrari doing the same this year and getting the jump on everyone next year?

They are still getting newspaper column inches and in Hamilton's case still finishing in the points so there can't be too much to lose. They could still end up 3rd or 4th in the constructors with good points.

The chap who speaks on 5-live from Force India pretty much poopoo'd this idea over the weekend. He said that even if Mclaren/Ferrari had only put a small team on this years car, it would still have been a bigger team than a few of the entire teams on the grid. He said they've probably just gone wrong somewhere in their design rather than it being a time-spent issue.

[bigburd]

Altrezia said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Of course you forget that a team struggling with a car last year started development work on a new car early and are reaping the benefits.

What's to stop McLaren or Ferrari doing the same this year and getting the jump on everyone next year?

They are still getting newspaper column inches and in Hamilton's case still finishing in the points so there can't be too much to lose. They could still end up 3rd or 4th in the constructors with good points.

The chap who speaks on 5-live from Force India pretty much poopoo'd this idea over the weekend. He said that even if Mclaren/Ferrari had only put a small team on this years car, it would still have been a bigger team than a few of the entire teams on the grid. He said they've probably just gone wrong somewhere in their design rather than it being a time-spent issue.

They were too busy spying on each other/sharing ideas and forgot to spy on Honda et al?

[jamieboy]

bigburd said:

They were too busy spying on each other/sharing ideas and forgot to spy on Honda et al?

Remember that Stepney and Coughlan approached Honda first...

[stephen300o]

bigburd said:

Altrezia said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Of course you forget that a team struggling with a car last year started development work on a new car early and are reaping the benefits.

What's to stop McLaren or Ferrari doing the same this year and getting the jump on everyone next year?

They are still getting newspaper column inches and in Hamilton's case still finishing in the points so there can't be too much to lose. They could still end up 3rd or 4th in the constructors with good points.

The chap who speaks on 5-live from Force India pretty much poopoo'd this idea over the weekend. He said that even if Mclaren/Ferrari had only put a small team on this years car, it would still have been a bigger team than a few of the entire teams on the grid. He said they've probably just gone wrong somewhere in their design rather than it being a time-spent issue.

They were too busy spying on each other/sharing ideas and forgot to spy on Honda et al?

Pinching each others sh*t ideas