Discussion
At the moment im doing an HNC Mechanical Engineering course at college. Iv always had the view of going to university. But recently iv being thinking of just going and trying to get a modern apprentiship. Im just not sure I want to be in education for another 4 years and would prefer to start making money. But would go if it would greatly increase my job prospects later on. And if i go to uni im not sure it would be for the right reasons. Not to sure what i want to do within engineering ideally id be working on cars or plane engines as I obviaously have an intrest in this.
Just wondering if anyone has any advise about this.
Just wondering if anyone has any advise about this.
Have you done any of the NVQ stuff while doing the HNC? If you've got a level 2 in PEO, then you'd be most of the way though a modern apprenticeship anyway and with an HNC, you'll have already completed the technical certificate part of one (they only expect a National Certificate rather than an HNC).
If it was me (and I've already got the degree and the Chartered, but I taught in an FE college for a few years up until I ran screaming back into real employment), I'd go trawling for a job. Decent employers will even sponsor you for a degree on day release (certainly the big firms near me do so) if you've got the aptitude and you'll be earning while you do so. You may not get as sore a willy, but at least you know why you're doing the studying.
If it was me (and I've already got the degree and the Chartered, but I taught in an FE college for a few years up until I ran screaming back into real employment), I'd go trawling for a job. Decent employers will even sponsor you for a degree on day release (certainly the big firms near me do so) if you've got the aptitude and you'll be earning while you do so. You may not get as sore a willy, but at least you know why you're doing the studying.
Paddy_n_Murphy said:
swollen liver, sore willy
Thats what id fear is all id get!Thats what im finding with the HNC is very little of it is to do with engineering! Quite alot is fairly useless. We had to complete an english class and a basic computing class. Quite alot is based around AutoCAD, which I would hate to end up sitting infront of a computer using 9-5 mon-fri for the next 45 years or however long my career is. There is quite alot of hard maths and id hate to go to uni just to do much more at a higher level.
StressedDave said:
Have you done any of the NVQ stuff while doing the HNC?
No, unfortunatly. The course I am doing there is a day release option for people doing apprentiships so id imagine id be a better candidate if I already have the HNC for any firms employing apprentices.Paddy_n_Murphy said:
noone in their right mind would study engineering at uni
i concur!i studied aero engineering thinking it would be interesting. if i wanted to study maths and physics i would have applied for those courses, we were doign things in first year that maths students weren't getting to until 2nd/3rd year. i got well and truly sick of it by year 2 but stayed to get a second class MEng. i loved the practical / design aspect and the parts that were actually to do with aircraft [avionics, control systems, helicopters etc.] but i should have bailed in first year and studied something else.
if you are ok with the maths or prepared to work at it, don't be put off though. i know a couple of lads who were got straight C's at A level and ended up with first class degrees. they just put the hours in thats all.
i'd say a degree is a useful tool to have, but i wouldn't recommend a budding engineer to go waste £20k+ on one. far better to find a decent apprenticeship or tech. level job and move up. the bigger engineering firms will spot talent and promote it.
the guy sat opposite me is the same age and does the same job. the difference is he's been here since aged 17 and was paid to go to uni on day release. his house is much bigger, his car much better, and doesn't owe anything to the student loans co.
the massive upside to uni though is the 3/4 yrs being young and idiotic. most of our apprentices who did their degree on day release would rather have spent the cash and had the fun. they all seem to have got married worryingly young as well.
You say you're interested in cars and plane engines - how about ships?
Merchant Navy cadetships will get you an HND or PD in Marine Engineering - your time is divided between college and sea trips, so you get theoretical and practical knowledge, and you'll get paid by a sponsoring company during your course, so hopefully you won't need to rely on a student loan too much!
The working environment isn't nine-to-five, but if you work for a company that does e.g. four weeks on/four weeks off, your four weeks off are your own, so over the course of a year you will have more free time than a 'normal' job, albeit in a different pattern. If you can stay out of the country for long enough, your pay will be tax-free too!
If you decide you don't like being at sea, once you've got your HND you could probably find relevant work onshore, on the rigs or even go to uni and get a degree.
For other apprenticeships, getting one with British Energy or Network Rail would probably be beneficial, as there's lots of investment going into the nuclear and rail industry so employment prospects are good. The skills you learn on these courses will allow you to work on cars at home, which could be better than working all day with cars then going home and working on more cars. Ross Brawn started as an apprentice in the nuclear industry so it can lead to higher and different places!
Merchant Navy cadetships will get you an HND or PD in Marine Engineering - your time is divided between college and sea trips, so you get theoretical and practical knowledge, and you'll get paid by a sponsoring company during your course, so hopefully you won't need to rely on a student loan too much!
The working environment isn't nine-to-five, but if you work for a company that does e.g. four weeks on/four weeks off, your four weeks off are your own, so over the course of a year you will have more free time than a 'normal' job, albeit in a different pattern. If you can stay out of the country for long enough, your pay will be tax-free too!
If you decide you don't like being at sea, once you've got your HND you could probably find relevant work onshore, on the rigs or even go to uni and get a degree.
For other apprenticeships, getting one with British Energy or Network Rail would probably be beneficial, as there's lots of investment going into the nuclear and rail industry so employment prospects are good. The skills you learn on these courses will allow you to work on cars at home, which could be better than working all day with cars then going home and working on more cars. Ross Brawn started as an apprentice in the nuclear industry so it can lead to higher and different places!
Edited by Taffer on Tuesday 7th April 18:25
Edited by Taffer on Tuesday 7th April 18:26
The Merchant Navy do offer a good cadetship program, infact I am one albeit the electrical side (I do all of the engineering side except for the Chiefs exemptions aswell as radio work etc).
The course is split into 5 phases:
Phase 1: College. Very basic ship knowledge, GCSE + level maths, some d.c electrical work and some workshop work. An easy start.
Phase 2: First sea going phase, usually lasts 3-4 months either as a solid trip or split into smaller trips on various vessels.
Phase 3: Back at college, work gets considerably harder. Finish off workshop skills (lathe work, fitting work), a.c electrical systems, power and propulsion, mechanics, hydraulics, some drawing and naval architecture.
Phase 4: Back at sea, I found it much easier to get into the swing of things and had a better trip second time around.
Phase 5: I'll get back to you
not quite through it yet. Oral examinations for a class 4 certificate yet to come.
Throughout the sea going phases you will be required to complete an NVQ level 3 portfolio which is needed as evidence to get your class 4 certificate. It's not difficult but you do have to be thorough and organised.
Throughout the course you will also do some short courses such as sea survival, fire fighting and first aid. These courses are very interesting and most people enjoy them.
During your cadetship the wages are not exactly superstar but you are getting paid to learn. When I started I was on sub £600 a month, £260ish of that was spent on accommadtion despite the fact I lived down the road. I know the RFA have better cadet wages and some companies pay for housing.
The course is not for everyone, infact a large percentage of cadets drop out during their first phase or second phase. The sea life is not for everyone but life would be boring if we all liked the same things!
It is a good chance to see some exotic locations and some not so exotic locations. I've been to Iraq and the Falklands, but I also had a 2 week stay in Rotterdam and had a great time on Ascension Island.
Some companies do not allow any alcohol consumption onboard. Alcohol onboard can be good in that it helps you to relax on your downtime and get a bit jovial. Downside - remember your a cadet, dont inadvertantly piss someone higher up the foodchain than you or you could find yourself knee deep in the s
t tank.
Hope this helps,
James
The course is split into 5 phases:
Phase 1: College. Very basic ship knowledge, GCSE + level maths, some d.c electrical work and some workshop work. An easy start.
Phase 2: First sea going phase, usually lasts 3-4 months either as a solid trip or split into smaller trips on various vessels.
Phase 3: Back at college, work gets considerably harder. Finish off workshop skills (lathe work, fitting work), a.c electrical systems, power and propulsion, mechanics, hydraulics, some drawing and naval architecture.
Phase 4: Back at sea, I found it much easier to get into the swing of things and had a better trip second time around.
Phase 5: I'll get back to you
not quite through it yet. Oral examinations for a class 4 certificate yet to come.Throughout the sea going phases you will be required to complete an NVQ level 3 portfolio which is needed as evidence to get your class 4 certificate. It's not difficult but you do have to be thorough and organised.
Throughout the course you will also do some short courses such as sea survival, fire fighting and first aid. These courses are very interesting and most people enjoy them.
During your cadetship the wages are not exactly superstar but you are getting paid to learn. When I started I was on sub £600 a month, £260ish of that was spent on accommadtion despite the fact I lived down the road. I know the RFA have better cadet wages and some companies pay for housing.
The course is not for everyone, infact a large percentage of cadets drop out during their first phase or second phase. The sea life is not for everyone but life would be boring if we all liked the same things!
It is a good chance to see some exotic locations and some not so exotic locations. I've been to Iraq and the Falklands, but I also had a 2 week stay in Rotterdam and had a great time on Ascension Island.
Some companies do not allow any alcohol consumption onboard. Alcohol onboard can be good in that it helps you to relax on your downtime and get a bit jovial. Downside - remember your a cadet, dont inadvertantly piss someone higher up the foodchain than you or you could find yourself knee deep in the s
t tank.Hope this helps,
James
I would highly recommend the apprenticeship route. I was lucky enough to get a Mechanical Design apprenticeship with Lotus when I was 16. We had a full year at an engineering training college then a further three years training on site. We had day release upto HNC level - further if you wanted it and didn't get made redundant!
I can't see it holding you back at all when it comes to future employers either. Out of the former apprentices that've been trained here, some have some very very good jobs in allsorts from F1 to aero engineering. In all honesty, lots of people I've spoken to when I've been for other jobs have looked favourably on the fact that I've completed a well structured and documented apprenticeship.
As for the 'dipping your wick' stuff - remember that you'll be the with money and a car when all your 'stinky student' (can you tell there was rivalry!) mates are taking girls out on the bus!!!
Good luck with whatever you chose though - there may not be mega money to be made from engineering but it's a very rewarding career!
ETA - this is my third stint at Lotus - so the 'other jobs' comment doesn't mean that I didn't get them and I'm still here
I can't see it holding you back at all when it comes to future employers either. Out of the former apprentices that've been trained here, some have some very very good jobs in allsorts from F1 to aero engineering. In all honesty, lots of people I've spoken to when I've been for other jobs have looked favourably on the fact that I've completed a well structured and documented apprenticeship.
As for the 'dipping your wick' stuff - remember that you'll be the with money and a car when all your 'stinky student' (can you tell there was rivalry!) mates are taking girls out on the bus!!!
Good luck with whatever you chose though - there may not be mega money to be made from engineering but it's a very rewarding career!
ETA - this is my third stint at Lotus - so the 'other jobs' comment doesn't mean that I didn't get them and I'm still here
Edited by srob on Thursday 9th April 09:58
Did my apprenticeship with the Royal Navy up to ONC standard. When I left I did a general engineering HNC followed by an HND in Electronics. I didn't think the maths was that bad considering I'm not that brilliant at it, although the teaching at Brooklands College was excellent.
Now teaching the pratical side of aircraft engineering at Uni.
Now teaching the pratical side of aircraft engineering at Uni.
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