Best performing kit car?
Discussion
Hi all,
My first post in this forum.....
I am considering a kit car in the possibly mistaken belief that I can acheive supercar performance at mondeo prices. My question is: If you were looking to acquire a kit car with ultimate performance, which would you choose?
As far as I can see, the Murtaya is going to take some beating? SO what else compares? a 700BHP Ultima would probably be ruled out due to the £50K build cost.
GG
My first post in this forum.....
I am considering a kit car in the possibly mistaken belief that I can acheive supercar performance at mondeo prices. My question is: If you were looking to acquire a kit car with ultimate performance, which would you choose?
As far as I can see, the Murtaya is going to take some beating? SO what else compares? a 700BHP Ultima would probably be ruled out due to the £50K build cost.
GG
GG33 said:
okay - lets say the budget is around £22K and it would need a top speed in excess of 140, Ideaaly I want something faster than my 993
But do you want it for road use, track, do you want top speed or acceleration.For example, my Honda blackbird powered westy race car (on road legal tyres) was faster around donny than a slick shod porsche cup race car - although obviously driver ability does have an effect.
It would also do 0-100 under 10 seconds, but was realistically spent by 120mph. The XTR2 will be faster as it has a better aero package, but IMHO is not as fun to drive and isn't as good on the road.
Bit more info needed really.
ETA For all round performance, I'd probably go with one of these as they're 1.8 VAG powered so easily tuneable up to 300bhp in a 7-800kg car. This will give you your top speed and still be quick around a track.
Edited by rhinochopig on Monday 13th April 20:48
It is definately to be a road car, used for the occasional track day but mostly for weekend hooning. It should be capable of serious road performance and not run out of steam at 120MPH. Quite simply should be as good or better than (say) a GT3 but not necessarily the same top speed.
I realise this is a tough call, but there must be something that can do it but cheaper than an Ultima?
I realise this is a tough call, but there must be something that can do it but cheaper than an Ultima?
GG33 said:
Quite simply should be as good or better than (say) a GT3 but not necessarily the same top speed.
So ... a GT3? 
I've also got a GT3 - not quite the same tuning level as Justin's one (the yellow one above), but still pretty nippy (0-60 in 3.9 seconds, and should be good for 140MPH+), and handles very well.
I would stick my neck out and say there is NO kitcar as polished and rounded as a road car cum weekend trackcar than a Porsche GT3!!! I am jelous, i would love one.
BUT as a track car, last year i did 2 trackdays at Zolder in Belgium, and Porsche Blegium were there with two brand new GT3's (not RS spec) equipped with Pro drivers. We were all giving hot lap rides to Belgian Dignitries and VIPs. My R1 Phoenix murdered them through, and exiting the chicanes, i litterally drove round the outside of them, and was a tad quicker on the straights (all of us 2-up,which is not ideal in a bike-engined car). Definately a second+ quicker per lap, assuming (knowing!) the Porsche drivers were much better than me. Likewise the Caterham R400 with us was quicker than them as well.
But a kitcar to outperform your Porsche GT3 on the road? Tough one. I think you already have the ideal car, if i was you i would go for a hardcore track toy alongside the Porsche.
You need to think also about what sort of experience on track/road you want as well? Do you wany to just go really really fast of do you want a bit of interraction as well ie. just steer and brake the thing like a video game or to you want to learn / hone proper (old school now i suppose to some!)driving skills on the ragged edge? Think how a modern 4WD 911 Turbo drives compared to an early 2WD Turbo. Personally, i would get bored s***less driving a fast car on track with driving aids and too much grip, but that it just my personal taste.
BUT as a track car, last year i did 2 trackdays at Zolder in Belgium, and Porsche Blegium were there with two brand new GT3's (not RS spec) equipped with Pro drivers. We were all giving hot lap rides to Belgian Dignitries and VIPs. My R1 Phoenix murdered them through, and exiting the chicanes, i litterally drove round the outside of them, and was a tad quicker on the straights (all of us 2-up,which is not ideal in a bike-engined car). Definately a second+ quicker per lap, assuming (knowing!) the Porsche drivers were much better than me. Likewise the Caterham R400 with us was quicker than them as well.
But a kitcar to outperform your Porsche GT3 on the road? Tough one. I think you already have the ideal car, if i was you i would go for a hardcore track toy alongside the Porsche.
You need to think also about what sort of experience on track/road you want as well? Do you wany to just go really really fast of do you want a bit of interraction as well ie. just steer and brake the thing like a video game or to you want to learn / hone proper (old school now i suppose to some!)driving skills on the ragged edge? Think how a modern 4WD 911 Turbo drives compared to an early 2WD Turbo. Personally, i would get bored s***less driving a fast car on track with driving aids and too much grip, but that it just my personal taste.
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Monday 13th April 23:19
Furyblade_Lee said:
I would stick my neck out and say there is NO kitcar as polished and rounded as a road car cum weekend trackcar than a Porsche GT3!!! I am jelous, i would love one.
BUT as a track car, last year i did 2 trackdays at Zolder in Belgium, and Porsche Blegium were there with two brand new GT3's (not RS spec) equipped with Pro drivers. We were all giving hot lap rides to Belgian Dignitries and VIPs. My R1 Phoenix murdered them through, and exiting the chicanes, i litterally drove round the outside of them, and was a tad quicker on the straights (all of us 2-up,which is not ideal in a bike-engined car). Definately a second+ quicker per lap, assuming (knowing!) the Porsche drivers were much better than me. Likewise the Caterham R400 with us was quicker than them as well.
But a kitcar to outperform your Porsche GT3 on the road? Tough one. I think you already have the ideal car, if i was you i would go for a hardcore track toy alongside the Porsche.
You need to think also about what sort of experience on track/road you want as well? Do you wany to just go really really fast of do you want a bit of interraction as well ie. just steer and brake the thing like a video game or to you want to learn / hone proper (old school now i suppose to some!)driving skills on the ragged edge? Think how a modern 4WD 911 Turbo drives compared to an early 2WD Turbo. Personally, i would get bored s***less driving a fast car on track with driving aids and too much grip, but that it just my personal taste.
Where does he say he already has a GT3???BUT as a track car, last year i did 2 trackdays at Zolder in Belgium, and Porsche Blegium were there with two brand new GT3's (not RS spec) equipped with Pro drivers. We were all giving hot lap rides to Belgian Dignitries and VIPs. My R1 Phoenix murdered them through, and exiting the chicanes, i litterally drove round the outside of them, and was a tad quicker on the straights (all of us 2-up,which is not ideal in a bike-engined car). Definately a second+ quicker per lap, assuming (knowing!) the Porsche drivers were much better than me. Likewise the Caterham R400 with us was quicker than them as well.
But a kitcar to outperform your Porsche GT3 on the road? Tough one. I think you already have the ideal car, if i was you i would go for a hardcore track toy alongside the Porsche.
You need to think also about what sort of experience on track/road you want as well? Do you wany to just go really really fast of do you want a bit of interraction as well ie. just steer and brake the thing like a video game or to you want to learn / hone proper (old school now i suppose to some!)driving skills on the ragged edge? Think how a modern 4WD 911 Turbo drives compared to an early 2WD Turbo. Personally, i would get bored s***less driving a fast car on track with driving aids and too much grip, but that it just my personal taste.
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Monday 13th April 23:19
Get a Caterham Superlight and enjoy it on tracks and summers days. Job done. Or an Elise with a Audi Turbo engine.
Or.... don't get a Seven/Lotus and sell your 993 and just buy a Porsche GT3
2 fun cars are better than 1 though! This weekend I did Mallory on Saturday in my Cosworth Powered Westy and Donnington on Sunday in my 996 Turbo.
VERY different cars. But fun and rewarding in their own ways.... and variety is the spice of life!
Edited by Porkie on Tuesday 14th April 07:51
Murtaya with a big turbo? Apparently they have an owner who reckons his example is quicker than his GT2 and it is a very 'complete' design.
Avoid a 'Seven at all costs if you're worried about top end. Most kits aren't geared, or (crucially) aerodynamically designed for high speeds, so your best bet is probably one of the LMP style kits like the Spire GTR or Aeon (mentioned above) perhaps?
I suspect if you don't mind something a bit hardcore as a weekend toy you could get a kit capable of murdering a standard 993 on a country road or most UK circuits. I doubt you'll find anything which is as comfortable in the process though.
Avoid a 'Seven at all costs if you're worried about top end. Most kits aren't geared, or (crucially) aerodynamically designed for high speeds, so your best bet is probably one of the LMP style kits like the Spire GTR or Aeon (mentioned above) perhaps?
I suspect if you don't mind something a bit hardcore as a weekend toy you could get a kit capable of murdering a standard 993 on a country road or most UK circuits. I doubt you'll find anything which is as comfortable in the process though.
Furyblade_Lee said:
sorry, my mistake! The OP mentioned he had a 996 then mentioned GT3, I put 2 + 2 together and made 5. If he has a 996 and £22k for another toy then an R400 caterham with a full cage would make a nice pair ( lower running costs than an R500, plenty fast enough)
Er.... he said 993 mate. Were you in the pub for the whole long weekend 
I agree with you about Caterham though.
Porkie said:
Chris71 said:
Avoid a 'Seven at all costs if you're worried about top end. Most kits aren't geared, or (crucially) aerodynamically designed for high speeds,
My westy does over 140mph WELL over it actually! I do get the point your point though
If god had wanted 7s to do more than 120, he'd have made CC design them with neutral lift. This is true!
My mate is planning on doing 175mph+ in his Westy... he has done a Datron recorded 160mph before pooing himself as he said it was getting VERY light!
So he has started adding some Aeromods to try and stop him needing the help of Air Traffic control when he hits the hump halfway down Brunters!
My mate is planning on doing 175mph+ in his Westy... he has done a Datron recorded 160mph before pooing himself as he said it was getting VERY light!
So he has started adding some Aeromods to try and stop him needing the help of Air Traffic control when he hits the hump halfway down Brunters!
Edited by Porkie on Tuesday 14th April 16:39
Porkie said:
Chris71 said:
Porkie said:
My mate is planning on doing 175mph+ in his Westy... he has done a Datron recorded 160mph before pooing himself as he said it was getting VERY light!
Jeez, what engine has he got in there?Don't mean to sound negative about the Seven's shape, but I'm just curious as to how much power it takes to push one through the air at that sort of speed.
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