Out of interest... Elise S1 running costs
Discussion
Just humour me here... I still haven't got round to selling my current fun car (it's too much, well, fun) but the idea is to get something more affordable to run and better suited to track work. How expensive would an Elise be to run as a track day car?
What's likely to need doing to an average S1 in the classifieds in the near future? Are there any big jobs (head gasket maybe?) and will these be hastened by regular track use? Are the tyres a fairly common size or do they need anything specialist?
Can anyone suggest servicing rates for the South East? Alternatively, what are they like to work on should you choose to get your hands dirty?
Dare I ask, does anyone know how the running costs of a decent example would compare to a mk1 MX5 as a track toy and occasional weekend car?
What's likely to need doing to an average S1 in the classifieds in the near future? Are there any big jobs (head gasket maybe?) and will these be hastened by regular track use? Are the tyres a fairly common size or do they need anything specialist?
Can anyone suggest servicing rates for the South East? Alternatively, what are they like to work on should you choose to get your hands dirty?
Dare I ask, does anyone know how the running costs of a decent example would compare to a mk1 MX5 as a track toy and occasional weekend car?
At a rough guess, probably 2 to 3 times as more expensive.
Budget on average £3-500 per trackday and that will cover most wear and tear (including the cost of the day). Oil changes you can do yourself if you have the time, tools and space. They are not hot-hatch money to run, and parts and labour are more expensive that for an MX5.
Have a look at eliseparts.com and see what the relative wear-and-tear replacement component costs are.
Bigger costs involve suspension refreshes, dampers, brakes, exhaust, tyres and the larger C-service where belts need to be replaced... and of course any HGF (but if that happens it'll likely cost 500 to a grand at worst to resolve at a good specialist).
If you're handy with the spanners then you can probably do a lot with time and space, which will of course bring your costs down. TBH, most costs are labour related as the parts aren't THAT expensive when compared to other trackday weaponry.
Budget on average £3-500 per trackday and that will cover most wear and tear (including the cost of the day). Oil changes you can do yourself if you have the time, tools and space. They are not hot-hatch money to run, and parts and labour are more expensive that for an MX5.
Have a look at eliseparts.com and see what the relative wear-and-tear replacement component costs are.
Bigger costs involve suspension refreshes, dampers, brakes, exhaust, tyres and the larger C-service where belts need to be replaced... and of course any HGF (but if that happens it'll likely cost 500 to a grand at worst to resolve at a good specialist).
If you're handy with the spanners then you can probably do a lot with time and space, which will of course bring your costs down. TBH, most costs are labour related as the parts aren't THAT expensive when compared to other trackday weaponry.
Self-service is the way to go if you're on a budget and have the inclination. Parts prices are generally cheap but its always labour that makes servicing expensive partly because labour rates, even at a specialist will be high, and partly because access makes lots of jobs take longer than they maybe should. The good news is that once you have gained access the cars are very simple to work on.
I self service mine and in 20,000 miles have spent less than £500 all in which includes a set of tyres, a battery and a refurbed hood. I'm about to spend £200 on replacement discs and pads and the cambelt will need doing soon which will be another £100 or so once I've bought a new water pump and service items. Pretty cheap overall expecially when paired with low or zero depreciation at the moment and considering the performance on offer. Fuel is working out an average of 35mpg on my 111s but that has a c/r gearbox, you may find a standard S1 is better again. Tax is about £180 per year. Insurance is expensive I'm afraid though good discounts are avbailable through specialists.
As mentioned, suspension components should be your major worry. If everything needed doing at once (i.e. worst possible scenario) you'd probably need to spend £1000-£1500 if you did everything yourself. Double that if you had to pay labour. I wouldn't worry too much about HGF, it costs very little to repair yourself but even a garage should be able to do it for £500.
Hope that helps.
I self service mine and in 20,000 miles have spent less than £500 all in which includes a set of tyres, a battery and a refurbed hood. I'm about to spend £200 on replacement discs and pads and the cambelt will need doing soon which will be another £100 or so once I've bought a new water pump and service items. Pretty cheap overall expecially when paired with low or zero depreciation at the moment and considering the performance on offer. Fuel is working out an average of 35mpg on my 111s but that has a c/r gearbox, you may find a standard S1 is better again. Tax is about £180 per year. Insurance is expensive I'm afraid though good discounts are avbailable through specialists.
As mentioned, suspension components should be your major worry. If everything needed doing at once (i.e. worst possible scenario) you'd probably need to spend £1000-£1500 if you did everything yourself. Double that if you had to pay labour. I wouldn't worry too much about HGF, it costs very little to repair yourself but even a garage should be able to do it for £500.
Hope that helps.
I would disagree with the above; I think an Elise is one of the cheapest cars on the road (or track to run). Change the oil myself on mine (filters are cheap as standard rover). Performance brake pads and discs are the same sort of money as any other car and a set of performance pads lasts 2 or 3 track days due to the car being so light. One of the best road tyres to use are Khumo’s and these cost £200 fitted for all 4. Most other parts come from old rovers should anything need replacing. Even the lotus bits can be bought from specialists for no more than any other car. They even do about 35 to 40mpg on normal 95 petrol.
The only negative compared to lots of cars is the suspension components need replacing more regularly (and the geo doing) if you want to maintain the excellent handling.
There is a great s1 that’s had all the above done recently in the adds for £7.5k.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/984783.htm
The only negative compared to lots of cars is the suspension components need replacing more regularly (and the geo doing) if you want to maintain the excellent handling.
There is a great s1 that’s had all the above done recently in the adds for £7.5k.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/984783.htm
mikey P 500 said:
I would disagree with the above; I think an Elise is one of the cheapest cars on the road (or track to run).
Erm, I suggested they were pretty cheap to run. 
Its the cheapest car with any sort of performance that I've owned, that's for sure.
Edited by Gad-Westy on Tuesday 14th April 19:16
I think I'm reasonable well qualified to comment on this one owning a 73k miles S1 for 3.5 years and having started tracking the car at about 65k miles about 18 months ago.
For the first couple of years of ownership my car cost me very little: I took it from 39k miles to 65k miles on nothing more than basic servicing and a couple of wheel bearings. I reckon the car would have quiet happily trundled on for quiet a while if it had stayed as a road car.
Once I started tracking the car it became obvious within a day that my original Koni shocks were past their best: being offered a set of lightly used Nitrons and springs at a good price was too good to pass up so these went on and quickly showed up how tired everything else was down below. I picked up the new suspension from a 'pro' who reckoned my bushes were probably well past their sell-by date so a suspension refurb was planned.
Over the past winter I've stripped the suspension down and replaced the bushes and balljoints all round after cleaning up and painting the wishbones. I also had my steering rack refurbed and replaced the TRE's. All in I reckon I spent almost £1k on the refurb by the time I'd bought all the partsand paid for cleaning agents/degreasers/newfastenings/permabond/duralec etc, etc.
Throw in the cost of the dampers and I've spent about £1750 on parts and odds and sods in the past year on the suspension - I'll be doing the geo myself too. If I'd paid someone to do the work and had new dampers (Nitrons) I'd probably have been looking at a bill for £3-£3.5k. I've still got to get an uprated ARB too!
Unlike a lot of others I really don't rate the Kuhmo KU31s: I reckon Toyo T1-R's are better on track in the wet although they soon overheat in the dry. I'm rapidly starting to reach the conclusion that the best all round road/track tyre for the S21 is the Yoko Advan LTS. I'm running stickies at the mo but that'ds because I'm going Sprinting in the near future.
I currently run EBC discs and EBC yellowstuff pads. I've been well impressed with the yellowstuffs - better (imo) for several reasons than the old 'budget' default choice of Mintex 1144. I might splash out on some different pads when the yellows give up simply so that I can see for myself if its worth spending the extra.
So to answer your question: an S1 is probably going to cost you if you start tracking it in earnest as you'll soon get fed up with the looseness caused by tired bushes etc. As the Elise is all about handling finess then it makes sense to look after the suspension plus its fun running rings round 'faster' cars!
Incidently I'll do a track day and then drive home 300+ miles and the car has never missed a beat.
For the first couple of years of ownership my car cost me very little: I took it from 39k miles to 65k miles on nothing more than basic servicing and a couple of wheel bearings. I reckon the car would have quiet happily trundled on for quiet a while if it had stayed as a road car.
Once I started tracking the car it became obvious within a day that my original Koni shocks were past their best: being offered a set of lightly used Nitrons and springs at a good price was too good to pass up so these went on and quickly showed up how tired everything else was down below. I picked up the new suspension from a 'pro' who reckoned my bushes were probably well past their sell-by date so a suspension refurb was planned.
Over the past winter I've stripped the suspension down and replaced the bushes and balljoints all round after cleaning up and painting the wishbones. I also had my steering rack refurbed and replaced the TRE's. All in I reckon I spent almost £1k on the refurb by the time I'd bought all the partsand paid for cleaning agents/degreasers/newfastenings/permabond/duralec etc, etc.
Throw in the cost of the dampers and I've spent about £1750 on parts and odds and sods in the past year on the suspension - I'll be doing the geo myself too. If I'd paid someone to do the work and had new dampers (Nitrons) I'd probably have been looking at a bill for £3-£3.5k. I've still got to get an uprated ARB too!
Unlike a lot of others I really don't rate the Kuhmo KU31s: I reckon Toyo T1-R's are better on track in the wet although they soon overheat in the dry. I'm rapidly starting to reach the conclusion that the best all round road/track tyre for the S21 is the Yoko Advan LTS. I'm running stickies at the mo but that'ds because I'm going Sprinting in the near future.
I currently run EBC discs and EBC yellowstuff pads. I've been well impressed with the yellowstuffs - better (imo) for several reasons than the old 'budget' default choice of Mintex 1144. I might splash out on some different pads when the yellows give up simply so that I can see for myself if its worth spending the extra.
So to answer your question: an S1 is probably going to cost you if you start tracking it in earnest as you'll soon get fed up with the looseness caused by tired bushes etc. As the Elise is all about handling finess then it makes sense to look after the suspension plus its fun running rings round 'faster' cars!
Incidently I'll do a track day and then drive home 300+ miles and the car has never missed a beat.
mikey P 500 said:
a set of performance pads lasts 2 or 3 track days due to the car being so light
If you're eating an entire set of pads in 2-3 trackdays in a lightweight S1 then you are a complete monster 
(or you've got a different engine in there...)Should last a lot longer than that. Hell, carry more speed in the corners, that's what it's for
A set of decent pads, Pagid or similar, should last the best part of a season of trackdays in a standard-engined S1. If you're having to change them much more often than that then I'd suggest that you're using them too much.
In answer to the OP's question, they are cheap as chips to run and on the whole very simple to self-service, hence how I can afford to run one. They only start to get expensive if you catch the upgrade bug.
In answer to the OP's question, they are cheap as chips to run and on the whole very simple to self-service, hence how I can afford to run one. They only start to get expensive if you catch the upgrade bug.
Really my Pagid front pads lasted about 3 or 4 months including a track day and airfield day and about 5k road use and took about 1 or 2mm of disc wear with them. Maybe I use them too much then. Although a friend went through a complete set of mintex pads on his 111r on the same track day.
mikey P 500 said:
Really my Pagid front pads lasted about 3 or 4 months including a track day and airfield day and about 5k road use and took about 1 or 2mm of disc wear with them. Maybe I use them too much then. Although a friend went through a complete set of mintex pads on his 111r on the same track day.
That seems to be an extraordinary wear rate by both of you. I suppose it would be possible to kill a set of 1144s in a day as they are fairly 'soft'.What sort of power are you running Mikey?
Simple self service? Surely not the oil change with the wonderful undertray.
Then why would you say 35mpg if that's a road figuure. However track mpg is still very good, in my case over 20mpg. The original pads lasted around 6 tracks and some 10k road drivning (ok now not much left on fronts). Tyres I think less than 1mm per day. I would have a rough guess costs will be similar to an MX5.
Then why would you say 35mpg if that's a road figuure. However track mpg is still very good, in my case over 20mpg. The original pads lasted around 6 tracks and some 10k road drivning (ok now not much left on fronts). Tyres I think less than 1mm per day. I would have a rough guess costs will be similar to an MX5.
Have had my S1 for 3.5 years, used every day including laps of the 'Ring and a few track days, she is on 82k (brought on 40k) it really is a cheap sports car.
You can pick up a good S1 now with all the crappy bits upgraded such as the Koni's, head gasket, a remote thermostat, people put in S2 seats etc. etc.
If your really crafty get an early example with MMC brakes on (some people slate them / some people love them) BUT they are lighter & you definitely won't be wearing them out unless your VERY heavy footed and do LOTS of trackdays !! I have only changed my front pads once because they de-laminated from the backing plates ! Could have got loads more out of them.
Tyres - go for Yoko Advans Neova's just great unless you go for a slick such as the A048 or 888 - 888 is more cost effective and just as good IMO.
You can pick up a good S1 now with all the crappy bits upgraded such as the Koni's, head gasket, a remote thermostat, people put in S2 seats etc. etc.
If your really crafty get an early example with MMC brakes on (some people slate them / some people love them) BUT they are lighter & you definitely won't be wearing them out unless your VERY heavy footed and do LOTS of trackdays !! I have only changed my front pads once because they de-laminated from the backing plates ! Could have got loads more out of them.
Tyres - go for Yoko Advans Neova's just great unless you go for a slick such as the A048 or 888 - 888 is more cost effective and just as good IMO.
Edited by Mish on Wednesday 15th April 10:10
TIPPER said:
mikey P 500 said:
Really my Pagid front pads lasted about 3 or 4 months including a track day and airfield day and about 5k road use and took about 1 or 2mm of disc wear with them. Maybe I use them too much then. Although a friend went through a complete set of mintex pads on his 111r on the same track day.
That seems to be an extraordinary wear rate by both of you. I suppose it would be possible to kill a set of 1144s in a day as they are fairly 'soft'.What sort of power are you running Mikey?
My RS14s are about half to two-thirds worn after approx 7k miles, 6 full trackdays and about 60 laps of the Ring. This is on a standardish 118bhp S1 running Advan Neova tyres and EBC discs. I'll probably replace them before the trackday season gets into full swing, as their performance seems to drop off once they're much past half worn.
chris7676 said:
Simple self service? Surely not the oil change with the wonderful undertray.
Then why would you say 35mpg if that's a road figuure. However track mpg is still very good, in my case over 20mpg. The original pads lasted around 6 tracks and some 10k road drivning (ok now not much left on fronts). Tyres I think less than 1mm per day. I would have a rough guess costs will be similar to an MX5.
The undertray is a minor inconvenience when you need to remove it to do anything under the engine bay, but it isn't difficult and only takes a few minutes. Everything else mechanically is very basic, the only issues being access to one or two areas.Then why would you say 35mpg if that's a road figuure. However track mpg is still very good, in my case over 20mpg. The original pads lasted around 6 tracks and some 10k road drivning (ok now not much left on fronts). Tyres I think less than 1mm per day. I would have a rough guess costs will be similar to an MX5.
I typically get around 35-40mpg in normal day-to-day driving, 45mpg on a long motorway run, and around 18-20mpg on-track.
I run Advan Neova tyres, and typically get around 12k miles from the fronts, and 8k miles from the rears.
Yeah, I was going to try something different next time as well. That's not to say that I don't like the Neovas, just that that's all I've ever run on the Elise, so it's probably time to try something else for once. Trouble is, I don't want to run stickies, and everyting else seems to get very mixed reviews. I've heard good and bad about things about the Khumos, and also Hankook RS2s, but at least they're cheap enough that if I don't like them I can ditch them for something else without losing too much.
What's the access like if you choose to work on it yourself? Is everything significant part of the 'off the shelf' Rover parts bin?
I presume the dreaded undertray is just a case of a few bolts?
I have to confess I've never done that much serious work on my own cars, despite coming from an engineering background. With that in mind I took a look at one of the local-ish dealers' websites: Castle TVR. Their A and B services for an Elise/111S are fractionally cheaper than the (presumably equivilant) 6 and 12k services for the S-Series TVR that I have currently at £249 and £349.
So, ignoring purchase price for a second, is there any reason a decent S1 Exige should be more to run? Dare I ask about the Toyota powered variants of both?
I presume the dreaded undertray is just a case of a few bolts?
I have to confess I've never done that much serious work on my own cars, despite coming from an engineering background. With that in mind I took a look at one of the local-ish dealers' websites: Castle TVR. Their A and B services for an Elise/111S are fractionally cheaper than the (presumably equivilant) 6 and 12k services for the S-Series TVR that I have currently at £249 and £349.
So, ignoring purchase price for a second, is there any reason a decent S1 Exige should be more to run? Dare I ask about the Toyota powered variants of both?
Easy enough cars to work on and don't worry about the undertray: its a bit of a pain especially if some of the fastenings have rusted in but just replace all the fastenings with decent kit and then its easier. Even better is that Eliseparts sell a quick release fastenings set.
On the K engines then everything is quiet cheap. Brake pads etc will be from £100 a set and discs about the same a pair.
Have a look on the Eliseparts and Eliseshop websites to get some idea of the costs of consumables and bear in mind that if you're regularly tracking the car then wear and tear on suspension components is higher than it would be on the road: suspension bits just get added to the list of consumables!
The general consensus from the pro tuners is that up to about 160/170 bhp is reliably aviable from the K. Beyond that (as the the VHPD varient in the S1 Exige) then regular strip down and rebuilds have to budgeted for. A figure of 40k miles is often bandied about for this but it really would depend on use (and abuse) of the engine.
Can't help re the Yota units other than to say that the 190bhp version in the 111R is a cammy thing. It only really gets cracking at about 6k rpm. I prefer the more linear delivery of the K.
On the K engines then everything is quiet cheap. Brake pads etc will be from £100 a set and discs about the same a pair.
Have a look on the Eliseparts and Eliseshop websites to get some idea of the costs of consumables and bear in mind that if you're regularly tracking the car then wear and tear on suspension components is higher than it would be on the road: suspension bits just get added to the list of consumables!
The general consensus from the pro tuners is that up to about 160/170 bhp is reliably aviable from the K. Beyond that (as the the VHPD varient in the S1 Exige) then regular strip down and rebuilds have to budgeted for. A figure of 40k miles is often bandied about for this but it really would depend on use (and abuse) of the engine.
Can't help re the Yota units other than to say that the 190bhp version in the 111R is a cammy thing. It only really gets cracking at about 6k rpm. I prefer the more linear delivery of the K.
TIPPER said:
The general consensus from the pro tuners is that up to about 160/170 bhp is reliably aviable from the K. Beyond that (as the the VHPD varient in the S1 Exige) then regular strip down and rebuilds have to budgeted for. A figure of 40k miles is often bandied about for this but it really would depend on use (and abuse) of the engine.
Ok, so the Exige is likely to be considerably more work because of the state of tune it's in?Have to be honest the only Elise I've driven was an S2, the reason for pondering the S1 was the thought they might hold their value rather better being a bit further down the depreciation curve. On the other hand I'm told the earlier cars are a lot more likely to catch you out with lift off oversteer, which slightly worries me having never owned a mid engined car before. However, I quite fancy the idea of something a bit more edgy to challenge me - I'm not interested in being quick, just developing car control. Hmmm, decisions, decisions.
In the meantime I have my next track day with the current toy tomorrow. That should add a bit more clarity to my future plans. Maybe.
Gassing Station | Elise/Exige/Europa/340R | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff