Hot to avoid buying an ex 'Land Rover Experience Range Rover
Discussion
I have been looking at used TDV8 Range Rovers and am concerned that I do not want to buy one that has been subjected to the rigours of the Off Road courses they use in the 'Land Rover Experience' Days.
Having seen them in photographs up to their armpits in mud and water I cannot help but wonder what all this gunge, followed by continual pressure washing to clean them at the end of each day, does for the long term reliability of the vehicle.
Does anyone have any experience of having knowingly purchased one of these vehicles?
I understand that at the Land Rover closed auctions vehicles that have had this use are disclosed to the dealers (so it would seem to be a legitimate concern that I have) and have been assured that the ex LR cars I have looked at in dealer stock are not ex Experience vehicles!
Where do they go to and if one purchases a RR that is ex LR + one owner any ideas as to how to avoid purchasing by mistake one of these vehicles.
Having seen them in photographs up to their armpits in mud and water I cannot help but wonder what all this gunge, followed by continual pressure washing to clean them at the end of each day, does for the long term reliability of the vehicle.
Does anyone have any experience of having knowingly purchased one of these vehicles?
I understand that at the Land Rover closed auctions vehicles that have had this use are disclosed to the dealers (so it would seem to be a legitimate concern that I have) and have been assured that the ex LR cars I have looked at in dealer stock are not ex Experience vehicles!
Where do they go to and if one purchases a RR that is ex LR + one owner any ideas as to how to avoid purchasing by mistake one of these vehicles.
Thank you for your comment RedLeicester and though I understand the point you are making I still believe that extreme off road use will create more wear and tear than a 'normal' school run and the vehicle potentially develop faults as a result of this usage some time further down the road (when the warranty has expired?); would you pay the same money for a 50k miles RR against a 20k miles one?
Merc Fan, thank you for your input on the colour; I guess LR would use vehicles for this type of event in colours that were easily pressure washed off so that the vehicles can be quickly made to look presentable after a hard days offroading.
Merc Fan, thank you for your input on the colour; I guess LR would use vehicles for this type of event in colours that were easily pressure washed off so that the vehicles can be quickly made to look presentable after a hard days offroading.
PW985 said:
Thank you for your comment RedLeicester and though I understand the point you are making I still believe that extreme off road use will create more wear and tear than a 'normal' school run and the vehicle potentially develop faults as a result of this usage some time further down the road (when the warranty has expired?); would you pay the same money for a 50k miles RR against a 20k miles one?
Merc Fan, thank you for your input on the colour; I guess LR would use vehicles for this type of event in colours that were easily pressure washed off so that the vehicles can be quickly made to look presentable after a hard days offroading.
Thjat's a point actually, I've only ever seen silver ones in the mud, and red ones at the indoor shows on the portable courses. Interesting!Merc Fan, thank you for your input on the colour; I guess LR would use vehicles for this type of event in colours that were easily pressure washed off so that the vehicles can be quickly made to look presentable after a hard days offroading.
Was deperately trying to not be facaetious chap, but I think it's a point - chances are the cars have been checked over thoroughly before being let loose - logic would dictate the LRE is a halo for the brand, so the last thing they'd want is for those cars to then be shown lacking for the very reputation the brand holds so dear. I currently have a 50k Rangie, and live out in the sticks so it's had a pretty hard life, but still goes like clockwork (damn, shouldn't have said that!
)RedLeicester I appreciate what you are saying but even though your RR is used 'out in the sticks' the effect of traversing deep muddy pools several times a day, climbing steep banks etc., all in low ratio, and then, after subjecting all the external electrical bits to this mud and water, to daily blast them clean with a power washer makes me wonder how much potential damage is stored up for the future.
As I said my understanding is that RR dealers avoid them and I wonder when one hears on this forum about an older RR giving a whole load of trouble if it might in its early life have been an 'Experience RR'.
As I said my understanding is that RR dealers avoid them and I wonder when one hears on this forum about an older RR giving a whole load of trouble if it might in its early life have been an 'Experience RR'.
I dont think it makes a difference personally.
A. Its what the car is designed to do
B. The LR instructor is hardly going to drive it to its limit with passengers, and I doubt that he will let passengers do do this either.
C. All of the cars are brand new, and serviced bang on thier interval or before, are jetwashed after each outing, and undergo a decent safet check everyday.
(No, i dont work for Land Rover
)
I got offered a G4 Discovery, 10000 miles on the clock for just shy of 18k which had been used at an experience centre - if I was after a Disco I would of snapped it up!
A. Its what the car is designed to do
B. The LR instructor is hardly going to drive it to its limit with passengers, and I doubt that he will let passengers do do this either.
C. All of the cars are brand new, and serviced bang on thier interval or before, are jetwashed after each outing, and undergo a decent safet check everyday.
(No, i dont work for Land Rover
)I got offered a G4 Discovery, 10000 miles on the clock for just shy of 18k which had been used at an experience centre - if I was after a Disco I would of snapped it up!
I'm not so sure. They are used to their limit as it's not just the 1/2 day novice drives they do. They're used to teach instructors, winching, advanced courses and so on too. Sure a jet wash helps but its the knocks and grinds that I would worry about rather than the cosmetics. Again, they are serviced to interval but I would still worry that a car used heavily and largely driven by off road novices would not be as good as one that hasn't and therefore that this should be reflected in its value. I would still buy one but only at the right price.
Thanks JCW_Matt; if the price reflects the usage then it might be worth giving one a try but I do wonder how the sealed for life servicing concept copes with all this off road use as I remember with our Classic RR, the requirement for fluid replacement etc was quite explicit after using it off road and in deep water etc.
Merc fan I think you have summed up my reservations, so back to the original question, any ideas how to spot one to ensure the purchase price reflects the use it has had?
The silver or (perhaps Stornoway?) colour is as suggested one clue; on recent vehicles the DE57xxx registration is another that indicates that it is likely to be ex RR (but I must hasten to add could be nothing to do with the Experience Program).
Merc fan I think you have summed up my reservations, so back to the original question, any ideas how to spot one to ensure the purchase price reflects the use it has had?
The silver or (perhaps Stornoway?) colour is as suggested one clue; on recent vehicles the DE57xxx registration is another that indicates that it is likely to be ex RR (but I must hasten to add could be nothing to do with the Experience Program).
Stornaway is the grey, LRE invariably use silver (other than the few red 'Event' cars). Ex-LR vehicles have been on Birmingham plates (BD or BG usually) and more recently on 'A' prefixed plates.
There are very few RR's in the Experience fleet, and given the respective renewal cycles involved, the chances are that any ex-LR RR's have been driven by directors as company cars.
From what I have seen, the LRE cars are incredibly well looked after...including a full scrutiny and process before sale. They are also engineered to be used for off road driving.
The vehicle integrity / quality step up between the current Rangie and a Classic is like comparing Fillet Steak with dog chow.
There are very few RR's in the Experience fleet, and given the respective renewal cycles involved, the chances are that any ex-LR RR's have been driven by directors as company cars.
From what I have seen, the LRE cars are incredibly well looked after...including a full scrutiny and process before sale. They are also engineered to be used for off road driving.
The vehicle integrity / quality step up between the current Rangie and a Classic is like comparing Fillet Steak with dog chow.
We've got a couple of ex-LR vehicles on a BT and BG plate respectively. First one is an 06 V8 HSE Disco 3, second one is an 08 TDV8 Vogue SE RR. Neither of them are Silver, and both are excellent.
When we first got the V8 Disco, to be fair, there was a fair bit of crud underneath but nothing that a good jet wash didn't fix. Under the bonnet is still a bit grubby, but the body and interior are as mint as can be. I don't think it was a LR experience vehicle as it is in Buckingham Blue but it had definitely not been used purely on tarmac. Not that it really matters as it is an ace car and both me and the missus are pleased with it.
When we first got the V8 Disco, to be fair, there was a fair bit of crud underneath but nothing that a good jet wash didn't fix. Under the bonnet is still a bit grubby, but the body and interior are as mint as can be. I don't think it was a LR experience vehicle as it is in Buckingham Blue but it had definitely not been used purely on tarmac. Not that it really matters as it is an ace car and both me and the missus are pleased with it.
PW985, I agree with your stance. The cars may well be up for a bit of off-roading, but while it's your money, you have the right to say you don't want one of them. I wouldn't have one either.
If you find a car you like, have the dealer to get it in writing from LR that the car hasn't been used as a LRE car. Should be easy enough to do and will deter a fobbing off by a dealer who may well tell you anything to get a sale.
G
If you find a car you like, have the dealer to get it in writing from LR that the car hasn't been used as a LRE car. Should be easy enough to do and will deter a fobbing off by a dealer who may well tell you anything to get a sale.
G
just a quick comment i work closely with land rover at the heritage motor centre and the amount of testing that goes into these vehicles before they are released is phenomenal.
and is it not testament enough that the vehicle will have done howevermany miles off road and is still going strong after all as said earlier this is what they are designed to do.
and is it not testament enough that the vehicle will have done howevermany miles off road and is still going strong after all as said earlier this is what they are designed to do.
There is also the counter argument that a vehicle used offroad, will actually have had all its systems used properly so everything should work...
unlike a mates disco. only ever used on the black top, first time he took it off road, he tried to select low ratio, and the leaver jammed as it had never been used in the previous 6 years !!!
G
unlike a mates disco. only ever used on the black top, first time he took it off road, he tried to select low ratio, and the leaver jammed as it had never been used in the previous 6 years !!!
G
budrover said:
A friend had a G4 straight from the factory.
Both front and rear axles needed changing.... then clutch and gearbox with 6000 miles on clock... mainly due to water ingress.
I think the gulf between the use that a cleaned and maintained daily 'Experience' car gets and the use a G4 Challenge car will have had would be quite considerable. I take it you must be talking about an 03 Disco / Defender or an 06 Challenge Defender given you mentioned axles?Both front and rear axles needed changing.... then clutch and gearbox with 6000 miles on clock... mainly due to water ingress.
Love those G4 cars though
Edited by Ed on Friday 24th April 17:34
Edited by Ed on Friday 24th April 21:15
Graham said:
There is also the counter argument that a vehicle used offroad, will actually have had all its systems used properly so everything should work...
unlike a mates disco. only ever used on the black top, first time he took it off road, he tried to select low ratio, and the leaver jammed as it had never been used in the previous 6 years !!!
G
I agree, I believe all systems should be use regularly, good example is air con unit, if you don't use it, chances are it will break down far sooner than those that's been used regularly, due to the coolant gas is used to lubricate the seal in the compressor.unlike a mates disco. only ever used on the black top, first time he took it off road, he tried to select low ratio, and the leaver jammed as it had never been used in the previous 6 years !!!
G
I've been on the LR experience, the suspensions get a good workout, all the time we drove at walking pace, and the instructor was guiding you. While we stopped for a break, I inspected the Range Rover, there was only one minor scuff mark on one of the doors(a polish would sort it out), the alloy wheels were unmarked which was a surprise, considering it was 6 mths old...
I wouldn't worry too much about buying it....
howlinmadmartin said:
just a quick comment i work closely with land rover at the heritage motor centre and the amount of testing that goes into these vehicles before they are released is phenomenal.
Well, thank goodness for that. In the early TD5 era that was not the case though...the customers did the testing, and paid for it (dearly)!Still, I would not want an ex LRE car, for the exact reasons the OP has stated. Yes, thay are designed for off road, and are mighty good at it too. However, there will be more wear and tear on certain parts of the LR's - just imagine the additional stress on all of the seals from the constant pressure washes and mud...
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