Sorting out my lines
Discussion
After a suggestion from my thread in Advanced driving, I've reposted the below here:
Been on a couple of karting sessions at different courses and noticed I lack consistency in entering/exiting varying corners on the circuit.
Sometimes I nail it exactly and other times I absolutely fluff it!
Anyone help me understand the thinking process I should be going over when I approach a corner - anything from a loose curve to a tight hairpin.
Many thanks!!!
Been on a couple of karting sessions at different courses and noticed I lack consistency in entering/exiting varying corners on the circuit.
Sometimes I nail it exactly and other times I absolutely fluff it!
Anyone help me understand the thinking process I should be going over when I approach a corner - anything from a loose curve to a tight hairpin.
Many thanks!!!
RLK500 said:
Reference points. Try to pick up some reference points for braking, turning, clipping and exit. Anything will do, marks on the tarmac, cones etc.(but preferably things that can't/won't be moved). You should then be able to repeat the corner approach, brake and turn-in.
circuit guides can be help ful with this along with watching other more experienced drivers lines. Remember look through the corner to the exitPiero Taruffi's "The Technique Of Motor Racing" was the original manual, and whilst a hard read it is still the best explanation of the line theory.
It takes you through the basic physics of cornering (F = m v squared over r), and with F & m basically fixed, increasing the radius allows you to increase v (ie find the widest arc).
It then adds the subtleties:
- Varying v though the arc, leading to a parabolic arc.
- Optimising the exit (speed on a long straight, position for a consequent corner), and the impact on entry and arc.
- Impacts of camber, surface variability, other vehicles, etc.
This will help you learn the theory, such that just walking the course will give you a good approximation of the ideal line. Then as stated, look for markers and cues as you drive.
You should be aware that as well as line theory, there is tyre theory (ie the two sides of car-road interface) which relates to optimising weight transfer and steering/pedal inputs. The best explanations of this was by Mark Hales in the defunct Circuit Driver magazine. But these have never been compiled and I've never read a book that has given even a half-decent explanation.
Ultimately you have to merge line theory (the circuit) and tyre theory (the dynamics of your car), which will result in going very fast.
It takes you through the basic physics of cornering (F = m v squared over r), and with F & m basically fixed, increasing the radius allows you to increase v (ie find the widest arc).
It then adds the subtleties:
- Varying v though the arc, leading to a parabolic arc.
- Optimising the exit (speed on a long straight, position for a consequent corner), and the impact on entry and arc.
- Impacts of camber, surface variability, other vehicles, etc.
This will help you learn the theory, such that just walking the course will give you a good approximation of the ideal line. Then as stated, look for markers and cues as you drive.
You should be aware that as well as line theory, there is tyre theory (ie the two sides of car-road interface) which relates to optimising weight transfer and steering/pedal inputs. The best explanations of this was by Mark Hales in the defunct Circuit Driver magazine. But these have never been compiled and I've never read a book that has given even a half-decent explanation.
Ultimately you have to merge line theory (the circuit) and tyre theory (the dynamics of your car), which will result in going very fast.
Your question relates specifically to Karting, probably rental Karts with a centrifugal clutch.
IMHO Karting is as much more about “seat of pants” stuff rather a deep understanding of its physics. This is why kids who start Karting early tend to become better drivers in the longer term and faster than someone who starts at a later age by going to a racing school.
As said before, reference points are the key. If you visit a track that has cones as markers, all the better. Once you have them noted, instead of breaking hard for a chosen (safe) corner try just lifting off and then steering to the apex; the Kart will scrub-off some speed as you turn-in, if the Kart understeers away from the apex, then you will need to brake a bit before the corner sufficient for it to turn in to the apex, but expect this to unsettle the Kart a bit.
When you can consistently hit the apex you then need to think about exit speed i.e. when do you start to use accelerator. If you understeer off, it is too early; if you spin, it is probably too hard.
Ultimately, the Kart needs to be feeling to move around beneath you whilst using the limits of the track width and this is generally achieved by good throttle control. Don’t think of it as an on/off switch more of a tap that allows more power to flow out.
The only real difference between a fast curve and a hairpin is that the fast curve may be just a case of throttle control, perhaps a slight lift followed by part power, while you will probably need to brake harder before a hairpin, especially if it is after a longish straight.
I suppose the final element is to remember that once the car is moving around beneath you, the tyres will warm-up quickly and what was impossible on lap one, becomes doable on lap 3 and easy-ish by lap 5. Once you have this virtuous circle, then you will see your lap times start to become progressively quicker.
IMHO the buzz from a 10mins session in a Kart and feeling/understanding how it moves around beneath you is a perfect way to hone your driving skills before you take your car on a trackday.
IMHO Karting is as much more about “seat of pants” stuff rather a deep understanding of its physics. This is why kids who start Karting early tend to become better drivers in the longer term and faster than someone who starts at a later age by going to a racing school.
As said before, reference points are the key. If you visit a track that has cones as markers, all the better. Once you have them noted, instead of breaking hard for a chosen (safe) corner try just lifting off and then steering to the apex; the Kart will scrub-off some speed as you turn-in, if the Kart understeers away from the apex, then you will need to brake a bit before the corner sufficient for it to turn in to the apex, but expect this to unsettle the Kart a bit.
When you can consistently hit the apex you then need to think about exit speed i.e. when do you start to use accelerator. If you understeer off, it is too early; if you spin, it is probably too hard.
Ultimately, the Kart needs to be feeling to move around beneath you whilst using the limits of the track width and this is generally achieved by good throttle control. Don’t think of it as an on/off switch more of a tap that allows more power to flow out.
The only real difference between a fast curve and a hairpin is that the fast curve may be just a case of throttle control, perhaps a slight lift followed by part power, while you will probably need to brake harder before a hairpin, especially if it is after a longish straight.
I suppose the final element is to remember that once the car is moving around beneath you, the tyres will warm-up quickly and what was impossible on lap one, becomes doable on lap 3 and easy-ish by lap 5. Once you have this virtuous circle, then you will see your lap times start to become progressively quicker.
IMHO the buzz from a 10mins session in a Kart and feeling/understanding how it moves around beneath you is a perfect way to hone your driving skills before you take your car on a trackday.
Edited by rdjohn on Friday 24th April 13:42
I found the best trick is to watch and try and follow the fast guys.
As mentioned it's seat of the pants stuff and following a quick guy can scare you if you're not used to it.
If you can pick up where the quick line is by watching them, and approximating the line as best you can, you begin to feel where the speed is and your laptimes tumble. Strange but i found it works rather well!
As mentioned it's seat of the pants stuff and following a quick guy can scare you if you're not used to it.
If you can pick up where the quick line is by watching them, and approximating the line as best you can, you begin to feel where the speed is and your laptimes tumble. Strange but i found it works rather well!
Get some training.
Look at www.carlimits.com and also www.catdrivertraining.co.uk
Both Walshy at carlimits and Colin at CAT will help you not only with lines, but also where and when to power - and more importantly, why.
I've been to both multiple times, and am smoother, more confident, quicker and safer as a result.
Look at www.carlimits.com and also www.catdrivertraining.co.uk
Both Walshy at carlimits and Colin at CAT will help you not only with lines, but also where and when to power - and more importantly, why.
I've been to both multiple times, and am smoother, more confident, quicker and safer as a result.
an important tip (that I never did when I first started!) is where to look!
The tempetation is to look at the track infront of your wheels... don't.
As you exit a corner, be looking at your brake or turn in marker for the next corner... shortly before you reach that point, look at the apex of the corner... you will note you braking marker in your peripheral vision and start braking fine. Now, as you turn in, look for the exit of the corner so you know when to get the power on.
repeat the process for each corner
You should be sat up in the kart with your head looking down the track, sometimes even 1/2 corners ahead... this really will help you get more consistent and faster. If you are looking ahead of the kart, you are driving ahead of the kart, if you see what I mean. You're not reacting to it but anticipating it.
The tempetation is to look at the track infront of your wheels... don't.
As you exit a corner, be looking at your brake or turn in marker for the next corner... shortly before you reach that point, look at the apex of the corner... you will note you braking marker in your peripheral vision and start braking fine. Now, as you turn in, look for the exit of the corner so you know when to get the power on.
repeat the process for each corner
You should be sat up in the kart with your head looking down the track, sometimes even 1/2 corners ahead... this really will help you get more consistent and faster. If you are looking ahead of the kart, you are driving ahead of the kart, if you see what I mean. You're not reacting to it but anticipating it.
This is a good starting point. Goes through the basic principals and techniques.
http://www.drivingfast.net/
http://www.drivingfast.net/
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