Potential PayPal Dispute - Advice?

[Ikemi]

I'll keep this rather long story nice and short! Basically I sold a mountain bike for £800 on eBay, which I hardly ever used. It had seen little action in it's lifetime (About 30 hours or so!) and hadn't experienced any crashes or big hits, although there were some aspects of wear and tear.

I specifically stated in my listing that the chain would need replacing and that the rear brake was suspect. It either needed a good service or required replacing, which I duly mentioned in the auction and to the buyer in person. There were a few other little things, but nothing serious.

Anyway a few days back I received an e-mail from said buyer complaining that on the first trip out the chain snapped, the front brake dumped fluid everywhere and a few of the allen bolts holding the front disc to the hub popped out, enough to scratch the inside of the fork rather badly. I honestly had no idea of this and nothing of the sort happened on the test ride I took before listing the mountain bike - I would've said otherwise - No reason for me to lie!

He picked the bike up in person, was happy with the condition and left me positive feedback stating "item as described". Obviously now he is not happy and wants compensation or will raise a dispute with PayPal as 'item not as described'. I have seen the photos of the damage and I am rather shocked - Never seen anything like it before

To be honest I don't think future problems are my responsibility and if this were a second hand car, he would have no come back if something were to fail ...

So would you:

a) Take the bike back off said buyer and refund most (not all!) of the amount?
b) Let me him raise a dispute and see what happens!
c) Something else?

Any suggestions are appreciated! I'm currently thinking 'b' personally ...

[The Curn]

Don't know. Probably B.

However I would never, ever, ever use PayPal again if I were you. Bunch of incompetent tossers

[Justayellowbadge]

What sort of idiot would buy a 2nd hand bike and ride it without give it a thorough going over?

[ipwn]

Let me get this right.

He collected in person yet paid via paypal and not cash ? wtf

Put it down to expereince by the looks of things !....

[Ikemi]

ipwn said:

Let me get this right.

He collected in person yet paid via paypal and not cash ? wtf

Put it down to expereince by the looks of things !....

He did offer cash, but to secure the purchase I decided it would be better for the funds to be transferred via PayPal - Not a great hit in terms of fees, unlike the eBay final value fees!

Experience for him or me? In other words, 'b'?

[Justin_Tvr]

Ikemi said:

ipwn said:

Let me get this right.

He collected in person yet paid via paypal and not cash ? wtf

Put it down to expereince by the looks of things !....

He did offer cash, but to secure the purchase I decided it would be better for the funds to be transferred via PayPal - Not a great hit in terms of fees, unlike the eBay final value fees!

Experience for him or me? In other words, 'b'?

If I ever have the chance always use cash; as so many posts I have read on here and personal experiences ebay and paypal are crap and going further south!

[Hyperion]

Transfer the money out of your PayPal account now...NOW - I mean NOW, do it NOW.

Seriously. Never ever hand over something in person that has been paid for by PayPal.
Not only are you breaking the T&C's of PayPal (must have on-line proof of posting and tracking)...you're effectively giving the item away free until the money clears into your account.

Edited by Hyperion on Thursday 23 April 15:38

[Ikemi]

Hyperion said:

Transfer the money out of your PayPal account now...NOW - I mean NOW, do it NOW.

Seriously. Never ever hand over something in person that has been paid for by PayPal.
Not only are you breaking the T&C's of PayPal (must have on-line proof of posting and tracking)...you're effectively giving the item away free until the money clears into your account.

Edited by Hyperion on Thursday 23 April 15:38

The money is in my account and has been for two weeks Any thoughts? Can PayPal remove money from my account if the dispute goes tits up?

[furtive]

Sorry to say this, but PayPal ALWAYS find in favour of the buyer and chances are they will take your money back. Sellers seem to have zero protection from people that raise disputes with them

[ipwn]

sigh this is going to be an expensive lesson for you if paypal go on favour if the buyer. Chances if that being fairly high

[gbbird]

Interesting what you say about the damage inflicted by the new owner. I wonder if he has had a major crash/accident, and is now basically trying to pull a fast one by saying it is a result of the condition of the bike when you sold it. Furthermore, his riding style may be more aggresive than yours - he may have a penchant for jumping off buildings, or riding down 85 degree mountains - and so your view of 'fit for purpose' is not neccessarily the same as his. All very subjective, and i don't know how he could win this one if he chose to fight it

Either way, i would go with B - let him raise an issue with Paypal and see what happens. He collected the bike, said he was happy that it was 'sold as described', posted feedback as such, so i don't think you will have too much of a problem. The onus is surely on the new owner to check the second hand goods before going off to ride it.

[duff-man]

furtive said:

Sorry to say this, but PayPal ALWAYS find in favour of the buyer and chances are they will take your money back. Sellers seem to have zero protection from people that raise disputes with them

+1

Had it happen to me in a dispute as well, lost both the cash and item "sold" in the end

I'd remove all cards and any linked bank accounts from your paypal account and close it.

Edited by duff-man on Thursday 23 April 16:22

[Hyperion]

Ikemi said:

The money is in my account and has been for two weeks Any thoughts? Can PayPal remove money from my account if the dispute goes tits up?

That's good.

Yes, they can take the money out of your PP account which will make it go into negative balance.

At this point you cut all ties with PayPal, and never use it again.
They will threaten you with debt collection agencies, but there is NOTHING they can do to get the money back.
There is no signed credit agreement.

[Ikemi]

ipwn said:

sigh this is going to be an expensive lesson for you if paypal go on favour if the buyer. Chances if that being fairly high

I suppose the worst case scenarios are; If I choose (a) I will receive the bike and lose £600-650 in a sort of 'refund' (I wouldn't refund the full £800 due to the damage inflicted after purchase!) and then could split the components. If I choose (b) I lose £800 and receive the bike to split ...

I'm hoping PayPal look at the dispute as gbbird said

[gti tim]

As stated, clear Paypal account, remove any cards or accounts linked, tell him to swivel. he's got no grounds - it was second hand. Imagine it was a car bought privately - you drive it home and days later the clutch goes, or something else. Tough luck. Buyer beware and all that - especially since it was collected and inspected in person.

[bazking69]

You took Payment by Paypal when he collected it from you!!
Not only will you have zero comeback or a leg to stand on, but why would you take a hit on the fee to accept £800 through Paypal?
Seriously, Paypal do what they want and will happily fk over the honest guy. You will never win an argument with them even if you can contact someone...

[Ikemi]

From browsing it seems PayPal sides with the buyer very quickly if the item has not been received, but if the item is in the hands of the buyer and a 'item not as described' is filed, then I may have a chance ...

I'm calling PayPal now to see how collection of the item may affect the outcome of a possible dispute.

I'm just really annoyed with this - As people have said, if you bought a second hand car and the clutch went the next day the seller is not responsible. The same should apply here ... He could easily repair what has supposedly gone wrong and have a full decent spec mountain bike!

[Hyperion]

Ikemi said:

I'm calling PayPal now to see how collection of the item may affect the outcome of a possible dispute.

Well, I can save you the cost of the call...

PayPal T&C's clearly state that all items must be sent using a service that has an on-line tracking facility.
You failed to follow these T&C's and PayPal will side with the buyer.

In a nut shell - never hand over goods in person if they've paid you by PayPal.

[Nickyboy]

Ikemi said:

Hyperion said:

Transfer the money out of your PayPal account now...NOW - I mean NOW, do it NOW.

Seriously. Never ever hand over something in person that has been paid for by PayPal.
Not only are you breaking the T&C's of PayPal (must have on-line proof of posting and tracking)...you're effectively giving the item away free until the money clears into your account.

Edited by Hyperion on Thursday 23 April 15:38

The money is in my account and has been for two weeks Any thoughts? Can PayPal remove money from my account if the dispute goes tits up?

If you have an agreement for eBay fees to be taken by Paypal every month then yes. Happened to me, dispute opened and despite the funds not being in the account Paypal put it in a negative balance of £240. When eBay took the monthly listing fees automatically from Paypal they took the fees plus the £240 from my bank account as to allow the taking of the fees the Paypal balance had to be in a positive figure.

[Noogly]

I don't know when you sold the bike, but I had an issue with ebay / paypal recently where the goods I bought never turned up, despite the seller saying he had shipped them (twice!).

Ebay investigated, said yeah, sorry, but tough we can't make him send you the goods.
After that I took it up with paypal and they wouldn't even look at it as by the time ebay had wasted my time it was more than 45 days since the purchase. That is their rule.
So in my experience, if he hasn't raised a dispute with 45 days you're OK whatever the issue.

Even if someone was to mug an old lady and sell her handbag on ebay complete with ID, paypal will side with the mugger/seller so long as he can string the buyer along for 45 days. God bless "safe and secure" paypal/ebay!

Think I'm gonna change jobs and become an ebay master fraudster, they certainly make it seem easy!