Towing weight: Is this legal?
Discussion
Searched the archives, looked at the DfT website, read the highway code, but I'm still confused about what is actually the law w.r.t. towing weight limits...
Can someone tell me if this is legal? All for private use.
Trailer: BJ Clubman 1400 - plated weight is about 400kg (can carry 1400kg).
Car on trailer: BMW E30 racer - about 1100kg.
So total trailer weight around 1500kg.
Potential tow car: Alfa 156 2.4 Turbodiesel
Plate limits:
Gross Vehicle Weight: 1885kg
Gross Train Weight: 3285kg.
There'll only be me and a toolbox in the Alfa, so I'm expecting the total train weight will be considerably under the Gross Train Weight. BUT the manufacturer's quoted towing limit is 1400kg (the difference between GVW and GTW above) i.e. less than the weight of the trailer/car combo above. So I'd be exceeding that, by about 7%.
Is it legal to tow with this combo, or not?
Can someone tell me if this is legal? All for private use.
Trailer: BJ Clubman 1400 - plated weight is about 400kg (can carry 1400kg).
Car on trailer: BMW E30 racer - about 1100kg.
So total trailer weight around 1500kg.
Potential tow car: Alfa 156 2.4 Turbodiesel
Plate limits:
Gross Vehicle Weight: 1885kg
Gross Train Weight: 3285kg.
There'll only be me and a toolbox in the Alfa, so I'm expecting the total train weight will be considerably under the Gross Train Weight. BUT the manufacturer's quoted towing limit is 1400kg (the difference between GVW and GTW above) i.e. less than the weight of the trailer/car combo above. So I'd be exceeding that, by about 7%.
Is it legal to tow with this combo, or not?
Did you get your license after 1st Jan 97? If so I don’t think it would be legal as your trailer weight is more than the weight of the car. (i.e. the car is 1385kg, max towable is 1400kg and the trailer is 1500kg).
www.motocommerce.com/alfaromeo/english/modeli/156.htm
www.motocommerce.com/alfaromeo/english/modeli/156.htm
The trailer is braked and I've had a licence since the mid-80s, so I don't believe either of those are issues.
The only thing that is unclear to me is whether it is actually legal to exceed the manufacturer's recommended towing limit, as long as the Gross Train Weight is not exceeded.
>> Edited by gejl on Friday 21st November 14:48
The only thing that is unclear to me is whether it is actually legal to exceed the manufacturer's recommended towing limit, as long as the Gross Train Weight is not exceeded.
>> Edited by gejl on Friday 21st November 14:48
I haven't been able to find anything definitive either.
From what I have found, it appears that the only "legal" requirements are the max axle weights, GVW and GTW.
AFAICS, the handbook's max towing weight is advisory - I assume this isn't actually on the vehicle plate, but only in the handbook, right?
I guess the definitive answer could be obtained from the VOSA (www.vosa.gov.uk/).
From what I have found, it appears that the only "legal" requirements are the max axle weights, GVW and GTW.
AFAICS, the handbook's max towing weight is advisory - I assume this isn't actually on the vehicle plate, but only in the handbook, right?
I guess the definitive answer could be obtained from the VOSA (www.vosa.gov.uk/).
Not sure of the law on this, precisely but as a rule you should not exceed 80% of the prime mover's weight (the Alfa in this case) with the loaded trailer. The GVW shown for the Alfa is NOT the same as what it weighs with a full tank of fuel a toolbox and yourself, it's the maximum permissable weight for the vehicle fully loaded.
If you tow a trailer that weighs more than 80% of the Alfa's weight, you stand a very real chance of the trailer attempting to overtake you under braking and a jacknife occurring. Worse, you will reach a speed where you get the 'caravan wobble' start and will be unable to pull it straight. It will get worse until the trailer overtakes you - seen this happen
If you tow a trailer that weighs more than 80% of the Alfa's weight, you stand a very real chance of the trailer attempting to overtake you under braking and a jacknife occurring. Worse, you will reach a speed where you get the 'caravan wobble' start and will be unable to pull it straight. It will get worse until the trailer overtakes you - seen this happen
>>AFAICS, the handbook's max towing weight is advisory - I assume this isn't actually on the vehicle plate, but only in the handbook, right?
True; not on the plate, just in the handbook.
>> Re: 80% rule...
Yeah, I've also heard that too. Browsing a caravanning forum the other day (
) I saw someone had done a survey of the 20 or so "rigs" people mentioned on there, and something like only 2 or 3 of them were towing stuff less than 85% of the weight of the towcar...
I'm really only after what is the legal requirement at the moment..
True; not on the plate, just in the handbook.
>> Re: 80% rule...
Yeah, I've also heard that too. Browsing a caravanning forum the other day (
) I saw someone had done a survey of the 20 or so "rigs" people mentioned on there, and something like only 2 or 3 of them were towing stuff less than 85% of the weight of the towcar... I'm really only after what is the legal requirement at the moment..
The maximum train weight must not be exceeded is the law. I think it's as black and white as that.
However, as is always the case, you could be prosecuted under other traffic offences - unsafe load,etc. How far do you have to tow?
It's not something I would relish for more than about 5 miles. Your arse will be gripping the seat of the Alfa so hard you'll have an Alfa Romeo imprint for weeks
However, as is always the case, you could be prosecuted under other traffic offences - unsafe load,etc. How far do you have to tow?
It's not something I would relish for more than about 5 miles. Your arse will be gripping the seat of the Alfa so hard you'll have an Alfa Romeo imprint for weeks
I am not aware of any law relating an 80% limit. A couple of points.
Make sure your trailer has a max load of 1400kg rather than max gross weight (ie trailer and load) of 1400kg. Provided the trailer is braked and working properly (most trailers are never serviced or adjusted) the limit will be stated by your manufacturer in the hand book.
We tow tens of thousands of miles a year (using BJ trailers), either with our Range Rovers or Cayenne. The Cayenne for instance has a max towing capacity of 3500kg using a braked trailer or 750kg using an unbraked trailer. The Cayenne it`s self weighs around 2300kg net. The max combined weight of the "outfit" is 6560kg.
Be careful to get the nose weight of the trailer right, typically 80-100kg, again your handbook will give you a max. Do not try to balance the load in the middle of the trailer otherwise it will fishtale like b*stard. Finally remember you will have lighter / less responsive steering as well as less drive to the front wheels (assume alfa is front wheel drive). Remember also no to accelerate too hard on corners otherwise you`ll understeer, then if you lift off or brake you may jack knife.
If you see one of the trucks in 911virgin.com livery with a Porker on the back give us a wave !!
And one final point remember you`re not allowed in the outside lane of the motorway, you`ll get to see how many people just sit in the middle lane !!!
Henry
Make sure your trailer has a max load of 1400kg rather than max gross weight (ie trailer and load) of 1400kg. Provided the trailer is braked and working properly (most trailers are never serviced or adjusted) the limit will be stated by your manufacturer in the hand book.
We tow tens of thousands of miles a year (using BJ trailers), either with our Range Rovers or Cayenne. The Cayenne for instance has a max towing capacity of 3500kg using a braked trailer or 750kg using an unbraked trailer. The Cayenne it`s self weighs around 2300kg net. The max combined weight of the "outfit" is 6560kg.
Be careful to get the nose weight of the trailer right, typically 80-100kg, again your handbook will give you a max. Do not try to balance the load in the middle of the trailer otherwise it will fishtale like b*stard. Finally remember you will have lighter / less responsive steering as well as less drive to the front wheels (assume alfa is front wheel drive). Remember also no to accelerate too hard on corners otherwise you`ll understeer, then if you lift off or brake you may jack knife.
If you see one of the trucks in 911virgin.com livery with a Porker on the back give us a wave !!
And one final point remember you`re not allowed in the outside lane of the motorway, you`ll get to see how many people just sit in the middle lane !!!
Henry
I'm only intending to tow in this set-up for relatively short distances (< 20 miles) over the next couple of months - a handful of times at most to and from the race-prep garage. Next year when I'll be towing "properly", I'll be using a Passat Estate, which has a manuf. limit of 1600kg. So I wouldn't be exceeding any weight limits with that.
I'm just looking to check that I'm not breaking any laws in the meantime.
I've searched for other posts on the subject and they don't quite seem to give me the exact answer!
I've done a reasonable amount of towing in the past, though lighter payloads - Caterham 7; about 950kg max. Though that was also with a lighter tow car and a single axle trailer.
Any traffic police out there at the moment who could give me the definitive answer?
I'm just looking to check that I'm not breaking any laws in the meantime.
I've searched for other posts on the subject and they don't quite seem to give me the exact answer!
I've done a reasonable amount of towing in the past, though lighter payloads - Caterham 7; about 950kg max. Though that was also with a lighter tow car and a single axle trailer.
Any traffic police out there at the moment who could give me the definitive answer?
Here's the post I meant:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=29970
I think Madcop sums it up by
"If the unladen weight of the trailer plus the weight of the drawing vehicle and its loads exceed the train weight, then you are nicked. "
I believe they will take you off to a weighbridge and weigh you if they think it looks dodgy
>> Edited by john_p on Saturday 22 November 16:40
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=29970
I think Madcop sums it up by
"If the unladen weight of the trailer plus the weight of the drawing vehicle and its loads exceed the train weight, then you are nicked. "
I believe they will take you off to a weighbridge and weigh you if they think it looks dodgy
>> Edited by john_p on Saturday 22 November 16:40
MIssed that thread. Thanks for the link.
That seems to say that again it is the Gross Train Weight that is the key legal one. As long as you're not exceeding that (or the individual axle weights) then the manufacturer recommendation in the handbook is immaterial??
In which case my combination of Alfa (appx. 1500kg one-up), trailer (400kg) and BMW racer (1100kg) is nearly 300kg under the GTW (3285kg) and therefore legal...?
That seems to say that again it is the Gross Train Weight that is the key legal one. As long as you're not exceeding that (or the individual axle weights) then the manufacturer recommendation in the handbook is immaterial??
In which case my combination of Alfa (appx. 1500kg one-up), trailer (400kg) and BMW racer (1100kg) is nearly 300kg under the GTW (3285kg) and therefore legal...?
I think, you have to make sure you don't exceed the four weights that are printed on your car's VIN plate:
- max vehicle weight
- max train weight
- front axle weight (I'm not sure how this applies to cars)
- rear axle weight (the max nose weight of the trailer) - this is recommended to be about 50-100kg? More weight = more stability
I think the trailer will also have a plate with max loads, max noseweight and these should be adhered to as well.
There are also recommendations e.g. don't allow the trailer to weigh more than 100% of the car's weight.
You could always go down to a weighbridge and check it all out. (Something to do on a rainy day)
Perhaps one of the resident trafpols would like to confirm?
- max vehicle weight
- max train weight
- front axle weight (I'm not sure how this applies to cars)
- rear axle weight (the max nose weight of the trailer) - this is recommended to be about 50-100kg? More weight = more stability
I think the trailer will also have a plate with max loads, max noseweight and these should be adhered to as well.
There are also recommendations e.g. don't allow the trailer to weigh more than 100% of the car's weight.
You could always go down to a weighbridge and check it all out. (Something to do on a rainy day)
Perhaps one of the resident trafpols would like to confirm?
I would suggest that if the manufacturers quote max towing weight as 1400kg you will not be able to tow the E30. However, if it merely states the gross train weight and gross vehicle weights you should be OK. Personally I would check with your local police traffic department before towing.
Manufacturers state recommended weight limits purely as a guideline in the handbook, 'do not exceed 80% of the vehicles weight whilst towing' etc etc. This obviously varies from manufacturer to manufacturer so dont really take much notice of it as its purely advice.
You will however need to be guided by the Manufacturers weight limits for the vehicle which will be on a VIN plate affixed somewhere on your vehicle.
The limits that i would be looking at if i had stopped a car would be the GVW and the Train weight.
Common sense should apply here, if it looks overweight then it probably is overweight.
This is a very complex subject and you also need to consider the total combined weight. If this goes over 3,500kgs then your vehicle may need a Tachograph fitted.
The Trailer will need to have Brakes fitted to it if its GVW exceeds 750kgs OR exceeds half of the towing vehicles Kerb weight.
I was standing at the side of the road a few days ago, dealing with someone when i saw a 2 axle car trailer with a Mondeo on it........slowly moving down the road before it bumped into a centre island kerb.
It had become detached from a LandRover Discovery which had been towing it.
This was all due to it not being locked in place.
Luckily it didnt happen on the M25.
You really do have to be very careful.
You will however need to be guided by the Manufacturers weight limits for the vehicle which will be on a VIN plate affixed somewhere on your vehicle.
The limits that i would be looking at if i had stopped a car would be the GVW and the Train weight.
Common sense should apply here, if it looks overweight then it probably is overweight.
This is a very complex subject and you also need to consider the total combined weight. If this goes over 3,500kgs then your vehicle may need a Tachograph fitted.
The Trailer will need to have Brakes fitted to it if its GVW exceeds 750kgs OR exceeds half of the towing vehicles Kerb weight.
I was standing at the side of the road a few days ago, dealing with someone when i saw a 2 axle car trailer with a Mondeo on it........slowly moving down the road before it bumped into a centre island kerb.
It had become detached from a LandRover Discovery which had been towing it.
This was all due to it not being locked in place.
Luckily it didnt happen on the M25.
You really do have to be very careful.
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