Someone think of the amateurs....
Discussion
Short rant ahead
Been trialling a few plug ins recently, just to add a bit more to my photos.
My main setup for processing has been to preview in Irfanview, see what I like from the shoot, then open up the RAW file in CaptureNX or PSE and start processing.
I added on OnOne's Essentials 2 for a few things, which worked great. Boxed product, nice easy install.
I trialled Color Efex Pro 3 from Nik Software, the Complete Edition. Brilliant software, works well with PSE, automatically adds the effect as a layer so you can play around with opacity, add a selection + or - point, protect shadows/highlights and everything I've used has (for the most part) brought out exactly what I wanted.
The trial ended today, so credit card in hand I went to the site to buy it. $254 on Nik's site, except no UK. Try the EU site; €299. Thats £100 difference, same product. Call up a UK reseller; dont sell Complete, only Select, academic and upgrades. The filter I used the most is in Complete. It's a big reseller that I've used many times in the past, who's name is well known and respected on this forum. They dont have access to it.
Called Nik back, have to buy in Euro's and include the 19% sales tax. Thanks....
And another one. OnOne's PhotoTools for Lightroom. It's not for Lightroom at all, you have to have PSCS3/4 installed before you can use it. So, £500+ on PS, plus £250 on Lightroom, then you can add the plug ins?
I'm not a pirate and never will be, but I can see why some choose that route, it's near impossible to access some of these software licenses, even if you have the money for what you want
/rant over
Been trialling a few plug ins recently, just to add a bit more to my photos.
My main setup for processing has been to preview in Irfanview, see what I like from the shoot, then open up the RAW file in CaptureNX or PSE and start processing.
I added on OnOne's Essentials 2 for a few things, which worked great. Boxed product, nice easy install.
I trialled Color Efex Pro 3 from Nik Software, the Complete Edition. Brilliant software, works well with PSE, automatically adds the effect as a layer so you can play around with opacity, add a selection + or - point, protect shadows/highlights and everything I've used has (for the most part) brought out exactly what I wanted.
The trial ended today, so credit card in hand I went to the site to buy it. $254 on Nik's site, except no UK. Try the EU site; €299. Thats £100 difference, same product. Call up a UK reseller; dont sell Complete, only Select, academic and upgrades. The filter I used the most is in Complete. It's a big reseller that I've used many times in the past, who's name is well known and respected on this forum. They dont have access to it.
Called Nik back, have to buy in Euro's and include the 19% sales tax. Thanks....
And another one. OnOne's PhotoTools for Lightroom. It's not for Lightroom at all, you have to have PSCS3/4 installed before you can use it. So, £500+ on PS, plus £250 on Lightroom, then you can add the plug ins?
I'm not a pirate and never will be, but I can see why some choose that route, it's near impossible to access some of these software licenses, even if you have the money for what you want
/rant over
miniman said:
I can see the frustration, but isn't it akin to the difference between having your film processed for £2 by Snappy Snaps vs sending it off to a pro to have each shot individually hand processed and adjusted to get the best from it?
I don't think so, no. It would be like knowing that other people in other countries could get their films processed by Snappy Snaps for £2 or using a pro to have each shot individually hand processed, but you've only got the option of using the pro or paying £4.50 in Euros to have Snappy Snaps do it.Personally, I think the problem is not going to be around for too much longer though. As Cloud Computing takes off and broadband speeds increase even further, I don't think it will be too long before we'll get the best of both worlds in terms of hosted software solutions. You use a viewer at home to work out which shots are worth further processing, then you access any software you want via your online software service, and get billed a price per shot you work on.
This way, pros pay higher prices (although much lower prices per shot) and amateurs get access to everything they could possibly want, and instead of spending £200 on a plug-in that you really, really needed for a couple of shots, but rarely use, you might only pay a couple of pence to use it just for those shots.
At least, I hope this is the way things go, anyway!
I already have PSE and Capture NX; trialled + purchased and in the case of Color Efex Pro it's available as a plug in for both. So I'm not saying I want to use pro software at pocket money prices, I'm prepared to pay for it, but the EUR version of Color Efex Pro is more expensive than PSE and Capture NX combined.
Just doesnt make sense
And Amazon wont stock it either
Just doesnt make sense
And Amazon wont stock it either
Are Adobe taking us for a ride, I am considering upgrading PSE from v5 to v7 so, the current offer from Adobe is the same price for the upgrade as for the full version. So no benefit or loyalty to existing users!
Then to cap it all the boxed version is £56.06 while the download is £59.23 so what's that about, no printing, packaging, storage or delivery cost and yet it costs more!
It smacks of the arrogance of being the No1 package so can charge what they like!
YB
Then to cap it all the boxed version is £56.06 while the download is £59.23 so what's that about, no printing, packaging, storage or delivery cost and yet it costs more!
It smacks of the arrogance of being the No1 package so can charge what they like!
YB
Surely Andy, if you are doing this stuff for living and you are good at what you do and make a nice profit, investing in the right software will reap rewards in the long run.
Also, most of these "pro" plugins, are just and easy way of applying the same settings you or I could apply manually (which you can save as presets yourself).
Also, surely if we all bought the same plugins, we would all produce the same standard results.
If you REALLY know what you want from a digital photo (and get paid for it!) paying full whack for CS4 and its plugins isnt really such a hardship is it????????????
Also, most of these "pro" plugins, are just and easy way of applying the same settings you or I could apply manually (which you can save as presets yourself).
Also, surely if we all bought the same plugins, we would all produce the same standard results.
If you REALLY know what you want from a digital photo (and get paid for it!) paying full whack for CS4 and its plugins isnt really such a hardship is it????????????
I somewhat missed part of the original point, about software companies charging more in the UK than in the US. I'd love to say that the cost of support in the UK is higher or that there is some other valid justification for it but in reality they are just grabbing every last penny they can get away with.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
miniman said:
I somewhat missed part of the original point, about software companies charging more in the UK than in the US. I'd love to say that the cost of support in the UK is higher or that there is some other valid justification for it but in reality they are just grabbing every last penny they can get away with.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
to be honest i think if you can use a photo editing program effectively you could actually do away with most of that stuff.However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
L4MBOLUV3R said:
miniman said:
I somewhat missed part of the original point, about software companies charging more in the UK than in the US. I'd love to say that the cost of support in the UK is higher or that there is some other valid justification for it but in reality they are just grabbing every last penny they can get away with.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
to be honest i think if you can use a photo editing program effectively you could actually do away with most of that stuff.However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
sorry, what? Which bits can be "replaced" by effective use of a photo editing program? Possibly the filters. What else? L4MBOLUV3R said:
miniman said:
I somewhat missed part of the original point, about software companies charging more in the UK than in the US. I'd love to say that the cost of support in the UK is higher or that there is some other valid justification for it but in reality they are just grabbing every last penny they can get away with.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
to be honest i think if you can use a photo editing program effectively you could actually do away with most of that stuff.However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
miniman said:
L4MBOLUV3R said:
miniman said:
I somewhat missed part of the original point, about software companies charging more in the UK than in the US. I'd love to say that the cost of support in the UK is higher or that there is some other valid justification for it but in reality they are just grabbing every last penny they can get away with.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
to be honest i think if you can use a photo editing program effectively you could actually do away with most of that stuff.However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
sorry, what? Which bits can be "replaced" by effective use of a photo editing program? Possibly the filters. What else? First off, those lenses. You can junk everything except the 10-20mm, can't you. After all, you can always crop the bit you want in that there editing program of yours!
As for cleaning kit? Pah! Why would you want to clean your stuff when you can just go through each shot removing all the blemishes instead. That's what your editing program is for, dear boy!
I see you've also got batteries and memory cards in the plural? A ridiculous waste of space and money, I think you will agree! After all, now you're using this photo editing malarkey, you're only going to need one shot at any given location, so why would you need multiple cards and batteries?
Of course, you're going to shoot in RAW, aren't you? Why, therefore, are you worrying about a flash and tripod, when any fool knows you can just shoot a dark shot, and then recover all the detail as a lovely, noise-free image when you get on to your photo-processing.
So what are we left with? Filters? Pah. I think you'll find that your photo editing malarkey is full of those. Of course, it's not easy to replicate a polarising filter in your photo editing suite, but hell, you wouldn't want people thinking you were backwards just because you're still using a filter, would you?
As for the bag - why would you need that? You're only carrying the body and one lens!
Kermit power said:
miniman said:
L4MBOLUV3R said:
miniman said:
I somewhat missed part of the original point, about software companies charging more in the UK than in the US. I'd love to say that the cost of support in the UK is higher or that there is some other valid justification for it but in reality they are just grabbing every last penny they can get away with.
However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
to be honest i think if you can use a photo editing program effectively you could actually do away with most of that stuff.However I do still think that relatively speaking the cost of the software is not that high. If you take your photography hobby seriously, as many of us do, then you could easily be looking at this kind of list of kit:
Canon 40D body: £700
24-70 2/8 lens: £250
50mm lens: £80
10-20 lens: £300
70-200 2.8 L lens: £1200
Flashgun: £200
Tripod: £100
Bag: £100
Batteries and memory cards: £100
Filters: £200
Cleaning kit: £100
There's £3k to start with, and that's just my kit list which is hardly epic compared to many. So a further £500 for the right software seems like a reasonable investment to me.
sorry, what? Which bits can be "replaced" by effective use of a photo editing program? Possibly the filters. What else? Gassing Station | Photography & Video | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff