E46 M3 running-in service - how late is too late ?
Discussion
A car I am looking at had it's '1200 mile' running in service at 3960, should that rule it out ?
A chap at the BMW I spoke to didn't seem to be too worried, advising me that 5,6 or 7k is more of a concern (he's not selling the car.)
Also, apparently if this service is not done the warranty is not honoured, but I know it has been. Confusing.
A chap at the BMW I spoke to didn't seem to be too worried, advising me that 5,6 or 7k is more of a concern (he's not selling the car.)
Also, apparently if this service is not done the warranty is not honoured, but I know it has been. Confusing.
Yeah it is a different oil.
Put it like this, BMW main dealer can/will not sell a car that has gone over by more than 500 miles, that shows how important they consider it.
How old is it?? If it is 2003.5 or later it will effect the price considerably, I would say it will knock £3-4k off the price and make it harder to sell, if it is pre that date than it will effect it, maybe by £1500-2000 but it is a 6-8 year old car and if it is still going strong then it probably will.
How long are you going to keep it?? If it is another 2 years then it will be coming up to 10 years and it will matter even less.
Of more concern have other bits been done?? If the owner can't be bothered to take it in for the first service, with stickers all over the car telling him how important it is, has he skimped elsewhere??
If pre March 2003 has the big end been replaced?? That was a free recall but probably the sort of person who thought "by the time it goes bang I won't own it anyway"
So although it may not be an issue itself I would avoid like the plague myself.
Put it like this, BMW main dealer can/will not sell a car that has gone over by more than 500 miles, that shows how important they consider it.
How old is it?? If it is 2003.5 or later it will effect the price considerably, I would say it will knock £3-4k off the price and make it harder to sell, if it is pre that date than it will effect it, maybe by £1500-2000 but it is a 6-8 year old car and if it is still going strong then it probably will.
How long are you going to keep it?? If it is another 2 years then it will be coming up to 10 years and it will matter even less.
Of more concern have other bits been done?? If the owner can't be bothered to take it in for the first service, with stickers all over the car telling him how important it is, has he skimped elsewhere??
If pre March 2003 has the big end been replaced?? That was a free recall but probably the sort of person who thought "by the time it goes bang I won't own it anyway"
So although it may not be an issue itself I would avoid like the plague myself.
AUC M3s can sold with up to 1750 miles for running in service. Up to 2000 miles the individual dealers can carry out an 'inspection' and still retail the car with a full warranty etc, and as long as BMW warranty is purchased the car is fully covered. Over 2000 miles I think is out of range so I would not buy it unless a senible discount was offered. £19K car for £16K would probably be worth a punt, since other warranties will cover the engine still.
The oil is standard but changed early to clear away running in particles etc from engine, gearbox and diff.
The oil is standard but changed early to clear away running in particles etc from engine, gearbox and diff.
That does sound well over and a few years ago I'd have said walk away.
That said, I've been on the M car websites pretty much every day for the past 7 years and I have to say that I've not heard of a single problem associated with a late running in service.
To the other guys point though, this would have been somebody's brand new car and he couldn't even be arsed to get the first service done on time. Hardly a sign of a well cherished example, what else might he have done? All what ifs though.....
Cheers
RS
That said, I've been on the M car websites pretty much every day for the past 7 years and I have to say that I've not heard of a single problem associated with a late running in service.
To the other guys point though, this would have been somebody's brand new car and he couldn't even be arsed to get the first service done on time. Hardly a sign of a well cherished example, what else might he have done? All what ifs though.....
Cheers
RS
0836whimper said:
That's the thing, it's a 53 plate and was sold as a used car through the BMW network in July '04 and the warranty has been honoured, so BMW seem not hold too much against it.
Since then it has only ever been to the main dealer for everything, so well looked after.
But that was 5 years ago, things changed in late 2007 when BMW started to get problems with cars that missed the running in service, it happens as the cars rack more miles up. So in late 2007 they changed the rules regarding AUC, dealers could no longer retail them as BMW UK would not warranty the engine. Since then it has only ever been to the main dealer for everything, so well looked after.
I was offered an 06 plate car with 12k miles on it last spring for £18k, Coopers Norwich had paid £25400 for it but had missed the fact the running in service was down at 3500 miles! ouch!!
In the end a trader I knew bought it, really nice car, in fact if it had been another colour than silverstone I would have had it as it was worth a punt at that price.
sparticus said:
I seem to remember hearing that the 'running in' oil is slightly abrasive. Helps everything to wear in togehter. Could be wrong though....
I think this is one of those things where it's impossible to get a straight answer. People say you can't properly break-in a new engine with ordinary oil, and there certainly are specific oils for this purpose.However the initial break-in period is *very* short - I've seen 10-50miles suggested, so on an M3 engine, you'd think this process would have taken place on the bench, and not be trusted to the various people who shuffle cars around between it rolling off the production line and being delivered to a dealership.
Ideally, it could well be that the engines are broken-in on the bench and then have an oil change to fully synth. The 1250 mile change is then just to catch any last remaining bits. No idea if this is what happens though.
gizlaroc said:
How much is it and what's the spec???
If it is an SMG car with 19's, Nav, HK and bluetooth with 50k miles and being offered for £10-11k then maybe worth a punt??
If it is a 70k mile manual with no nav it would need to be £8-9k.
It's a very smart 53 plate, 19's, manual, all the toys (inc HK) except nav, 25k miles (confirmed)and seen a main dealer all it's life. 16K.If it is an SMG car with 19's, Nav, HK and bluetooth with 50k miles and being offered for £10-11k then maybe worth a punt??
If it is a 70k mile manual with no nav it would need to be £8-9k.
Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 27th April 22:34
Edited by 0836whimper on Tuesday 28th April 09:47
Edited by 0836whimper on Tuesday 28th April 09:49
The 'running-in' oil is a myth.
Granted they MAY use something special when in the factory (I doubt this however), but when a car is delivered to a dealer the engine will have the same Castrol 10W60 that should be used over the rest of its life.
Nearly 4,000 miles would seem late for the running in service, but as these cars get olders I'd be more concerned about the subsequent 40,000 miles + than the first few.
Price seems steep though.
Ipso
Granted they MAY use something special when in the factory (I doubt this however), but when a car is delivered to a dealer the engine will have the same Castrol 10W60 that should be used over the rest of its life.
Nearly 4,000 miles would seem late for the running in service, but as these cars get olders I'd be more concerned about the subsequent 40,000 miles + than the first few.
Price seems steep though.
Ipso
What's the rest of the service history like? I think they are meant to be done via the milage indicator or every 2 years which ever comes first, having only 25k miles, has it been serviced time based rather than milage. I'd be concerned that it hasn't been particularly well looked after if the initial service was delayed, especially as I believe that running in service was free.
Just my two cent's - why risk a car without an impeccable history? The service is there for a reason (be it mechanical or marketing) and I would suggest it would be extremely difficult to sell on to anyone who knows what to look for (as you indeed have asked about the running in service).
There are plenty of nice cars with a full history out there. If you can afford that asking price, you can get a car with the right history and in great condition. I think that new engines are a little pricey, and I would guess that any warranty you take out (BMW wouldn't cover you) would get you on the "serviced as per the manufacurers guidelines" clause if you tried to claim.
Good luck!
Kris
There are plenty of nice cars with a full history out there. If you can afford that asking price, you can get a car with the right history and in great condition. I think that new engines are a little pricey, and I would guess that any warranty you take out (BMW wouldn't cover you) would get you on the "serviced as per the manufacurers guidelines" clause if you tried to claim.
Good luck!
Kris
That's not even the right money for a 2003 car without Nav with a perfect history imho.
For one without it it is too much.
The history should like this, with those sort of miles.....
2003 1200 mile running in service
2005 oil service
2007 inspection I
2009 oil service (should be due in a couple of months)
That car books at £11600 trade to retail around £14500, so you go ahead and spend £16k on it, but you will get shafted if you want to swap in 12 months.
For one without it it is too much.
The history should like this, with those sort of miles.....
2003 1200 mile running in service
2005 oil service
2007 inspection I
2009 oil service (should be due in a couple of months)
That car books at £11600 trade to retail around £14500, so you go ahead and spend £16k on it, but you will get shafted if you want to swap in 12 months.
Edited by gizlaroc on Tuesday 28th April 16:19
car had running in service 1 month after registration with 3960 miles on the clock!
it has a stamp from a main dealer (mostly the same one) every year since.
It may 'Book' at £14,500, but i challenge you to find a decent spec 53 plate car with less the 50k miles for that....(if you do tell whimper)
Keep the advice coming it's useful
Custard
it has a stamp from a main dealer (mostly the same one) every year since.
It may 'Book' at £14,500, but i challenge you to find a decent spec 53 plate car with less the 50k miles for that....(if you do tell whimper)
Keep the advice coming it's useful
Custard
custardkid said:
car had running in service 1 month after registration with 3960 miles on the clock!
it has a stamp from a main dealer (mostly the same one) every year since.
It may 'Book' at £14,500, but i challenge you to find a decent spec 53 plate car with less the 50k miles for that....(if you do tell whimper)
Keep the advice coming it's useful
Custard
I had traders offer me £14500 after seeing my 54 plate Carbon black with 45000 miles on and someone phoned to offer me £15000 cash waiting without seeing it. I passed on both as I felt the asking price of £15750 was reasonable.it has a stamp from a main dealer (mostly the same one) every year since.
It may 'Book' at £14,500, but i challenge you to find a decent spec 53 plate car with less the 50k miles for that....(if you do tell whimper)
Keep the advice coming it's useful
Custard
I also had loads of timewasters asking daft questions, so i withdrew it from sale in the end. quite glad I did really as after a 300 mile drive in it I dont think theres much better for the money.
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