Threads regarding the P&P changes
Discussion
I know there have been a lot of threads on this over the last few weeks that have probably required a lot of attention from the mods, and several have degenerated into mud-slinging and "you're wrong-I'm right".
However, is it now a closed subject? It seems that whenever one of these threads appears, it is destined to be closed within a few posts (as this one will, probably
).
I can understand them being consolidated into one thread, but all of them seem to be closed. I am sure they are tiresome to some, but is discussion no longer invited on the subject? It seems as if it's a fait accompli and it's being swept under the carpet.
Can we not have one thread where it can be discussed and suggestions be made. I'm not talking about moaning for the sake of it - more identifying specific issues and suggesting solutions?
I would be interested in a timeline for when we hear the figures/decision, although I suspect many will consider it to be a "done deal"...
However, is it now a closed subject? It seems that whenever one of these threads appears, it is destined to be closed within a few posts (as this one will, probably
).I can understand them being consolidated into one thread, but all of them seem to be closed. I am sure they are tiresome to some, but is discussion no longer invited on the subject? It seems as if it's a fait accompli and it's being swept under the carpet.
Can we not have one thread where it can be discussed and suggestions be made. I'm not talking about moaning for the sake of it - more identifying specific issues and suggesting solutions?
I would be interested in a timeline for when we hear the figures/decision, although I suspect many will consider it to be a "done deal"...
By all means have a thread running but to discuss what, all the points that have been expressed (and taken on board) in the past on the threads that have been closed.
Haymarket have previously stated that they will review the numbers and make a statement as and when they have the accumulated information.
Why do you feel the need to keep raising these types of threads?
I can assure you they will post a statement as and when they are ready.
Haymarket have previously stated that they will review the numbers and make a statement as and when they have the accumulated information.
Why do you feel the need to keep raising these types of threads?
I can assure you they will post a statement as and when they are ready.
If people are prepared to start threads and contribute to them on the subject then clearly there is a will to do that. I would have thought just closing them breeds resentment and further perpetuates the feeling that it doesn't really matter what the users think?
Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
NiceCupOfTea said:
If people are prepared to start threads and contribute to them on the subject then clearly there is a will to do that. I would have thought just closing them breeds resentment and further perpetuates the feeling that it doesn't really matter what the users think?
Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
100% agree, the amount of discussion on this topic has to count for something, surely?Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
This is website feedback after all, and it seems that the last thread was closed after my post? Which was to point out that the lower number of abuse reports could be down to less people caring about PH anymore. I don't see why that caused the thread to be closed? It wasn't a whinge, it wasn't a tired repeated arguement, it was a specific comment to a point that hadn't been raised before.
NiceCupOfTea said:
Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
Likewise, how many more times can the same subject be debated?I can assure you again that Haymarket will not be pushed into making a decision until they have all the facts at their disposal.
OK I'll play devils advocate here......
Lets say that decided to go back to the old ways, for some everything in the garden would be rosy.
Now what if and it's a big WHAT IF, they come back and say sorry we like it this way.
Again just playing devils advocate here remember.
Big Al. said:
By all means have a thread running but to discuss what, all the points that have been expressed (and taken on board) in the past on the threads that have been closed.
Haymarket have previously stated that they will review the numbers and make a statement as and when they have the accumulated information.
Why do you feel the need to keep raising these types of threads?
I can assure you they will post a statement as and when they are ready.
What else is Merc fan gonna do with his day?Haymarket have previously stated that they will review the numbers and make a statement as and when they have the accumulated information.
Why do you feel the need to keep raising these types of threads?
I can assure you they will post a statement as and when they are ready.
Big Al. said:
Likewise, how many more times can the same subject be debated?
This is a discussion forum, there is nothing more than the posts people make, debate is pretty much the whole point of a discussion forum and new ideas evolve through discussion, just because you've heard it before at the start doesn't mean that it won't evolve into new idea. All the constructive criticism and ideas have been on the back of another comment or suggestion from someone else, ideas feed ideas...Big Al. said:
I can assure you again that Haymarket will not be pushed into making a decision until they have all the facts at their disposal.
OK I'll play devils advocate here......
Lets say that decided to go back to the old ways, for some everything in the garden would be rosy.
Now what if and it's a big WHAT IF, they come back and say sorry we like it this way.
That would be fine. Honestly. Sure I preferred it the way it was, but if they come back and state that all ideas and arguments have been listened to and thought about and actually it's staying the way it is, I can respect that.OK I'll play devils advocate here......
Lets say that decided to go back to the old ways, for some everything in the garden would be rosy.
Now what if and it's a big WHAT IF, they come back and say sorry we like it this way.
Nobody has said, either from Haymarket or the Mods, that actually this might have been a mistake. I think that one of the main things the naysayers are after is recognition that there is a swell of bad feeling and that it may have been a mistake. All that has been said is "stop whinging" and "we'll look at the figures later" as far as I can tell...
Surely you must understand why that is frustrating for people who actually care about these forums, who enjoyed using them and want to continue to enjoy using them.
Big Al. said:
Again just playing devils advocate here remember.
You were better in Speed... 
Big Al. said:
NiceCupOfTea said:
Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
Likewise, how many more times can the same subject be debated?I can assure you again that Haymarket will not be pushed into making a decision until they have all the facts at their disposal.
OK I'll play devils advocate here......
Lets say that decided to go back to the old ways, for some everything in the garden would be rosy.
Now what if and it's a big WHAT IF, they come back and say sorry we like it this way.
Again just playing devils advocate here remember.
I think you'll find if you read back on some the previous closed (by HM) thread that HM DID state they would make a statement as and when they had the information available IIRC it was Garlick. Both he and Stuart have also said that they had taken on board what had been said. AFAICS nothing new has been raised since the closure of those threads.
Again I'm not getting into yet another circular debate that IMHO is going nowhere.
All I asked on my previous post was, WHAT IF?
Again I'm not getting into yet another circular debate that IMHO is going nowhere.
All I asked on my previous post was, WHAT IF?
It's my fault, I'd meant to get everything together to review by the end of last week.
In the end, it wasn't to be, but I/ we will post what is going to happen in this forum on Wednesday/ Thursday.
No need to repeat the previous threads again, as all points have been read, and we won't be commenting further until we have looked at everything properly
In the end, it wasn't to be, but I/ we will post what is going to happen in this forum on Wednesday/ Thursday.
No need to repeat the previous threads again, as all points have been read, and we won't be commenting further until we have looked at everything properly
Big Al. said:
NiceCupOfTea said:
Not meaning to be contentious here guys, just frustrated.
Likewise, how many more times can the same subject be debated?Big Al. said:
I can assure you again that Haymarket will not be pushed into making a decision until they have all the facts at their disposal.
Nobody's asking them to - I'm just asking if we can have an avenue left open for discussion of it?Big Al. said:
OK I'll play devils advocate here......
Lets say that decided to go back to the old ways, for some everything in the garden would be rosy.
I would be the first to admit that the P&P had problems as it was, and I have offered up several suggestions that were apparently taken on board - perhaps we could try a new direction (with input from the users)?Lets say that decided to go back to the old ways, for some everything in the garden would be rosy.
Big Al. said:
Now what if and it's a big WHAT IF, they come back and say sorry we like it this way.
Again just playing devils advocate here remember.
Well it's their ball, and they can do what they want with it. I won't be particularly happy, but my choice is to suck it up and use the site as is or go elsewhere. Unfortunately I don't see anywhere better at the moment! I doubt I will use the site as much though. I'm sure HM will be quaking in their boots Again just playing devils advocate here remember.
I have said before that I understand their decision (burying the unsavoury elements of the P&P, and as such don't expect to see it reversed), I just think it is sad that it has to my mind neutered PH in some ways. I'm well aware of how good the motoring sections still are, which I use regularly as I always have, but the P&P was fun too. I still maintain a "serious discussions" area and an off the wall section (albeit more heavily moderated to stop topics getting wildly out of hand if this was necessary - although the "anything could happen" element of the P&P was one of the best things about it. 30 page threads appearing in a couple of hours with real life soap opera dramas unfolding - I am sure we have all had a chuckle at some of those!) could work.
Please leave this topic open.
My work here is done!WhoseGeneration said:
Who likes a fast moving, anarchic, fun, expletive laden, offensive, insulting forum?
Which also contains intelligence, thought and humanity.
I do.
Now where will I find a new one?
Also related to cars.
Have you tried the feedback forum at www.dvla.gov.uk?Which also contains intelligence, thought and humanity.
I do.
Now where will I find a new one?
Also related to cars.
It's a right old giggle.
The only trouble is, you have to submit every post you make twice - once in English, and once in Welsh.
eharding said:
Have you tried the feedback forum at www.dvla.gov.uk?
It's a right old giggle.
The only trouble is, you have to submit every post you make twice - once in English, and once in Welsh.
And it's full of cookies.It's a right old giggle.
The only trouble is, you have to submit every post you make twice - once in English, and once in Welsh.
Government ones!!!
NiceCupOfTea said:
I would be the first to admit that the P&P had problems as it was, and I have offered up several suggestions that were apparently taken on board - perhaps we could try a new direction (with input from the users)?
The problem is a lot of those threads just degenerated into slanging matches. Unfortunately many of those who were unhappy weren't able to articulate exactly why they were upset. Also some seemed intent on using the threads purely to vent their anger and didn't seem to be prepared to listen to proposals that could have addressed their problems. I was one of those that tried to make positive suggestions but they were lost in the miasma of bad feeling. Perhaps it would be best to wait until Pete has made the changes that he is working on, and then a proper debate can be had on whether these improve the situation or not?NiceCupOfTea said:
although the "anything could happen" element of the P&P was one of the best things about it. 30 page threads appearing in a couple of hours with real life soap opera dramas unfolding - I am sure we have all had a chuckle at some of those!)
I'm sure such threads could still happen in the Lounge. Gassing Station | Website Feedback | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff