Interesting view from a Track Hire Car company

[rhinochopig]

As an ex-owner of a 'blackbird powered westy I find this comment interesting.

Radical SR3 Supersport
Ah the Radical - we brought ours to be the headline car in the fleet a duty it performed almost too well (many members where somewhat fearful of it!). Would we have another bike engined car on the fleet? Probably not in all honesty - they're very quick and, in the case of the Radical, more progressive at/on the limit than you'd perhaps think but they need deep pockets and a degree of mechanical sympathy from the driver.

I have to say, I'm glad I had the westy, but do share this view.

Some other interesting comments on their site too.

http://www.track-club.com/fleetXList.aspx

[Furyblade_Lee]

I would not have said a Radical would be progressive ok the limit!! My only experience of one was a passenger ride In a 1500cc SR4 on slicks at Brands. It was SO fast and grippy with the slicks and aero that any highspeed under or oversteer would need lightning reactions to deal with. I am sure most competent drivers could learn to deal with it, but not Joe Public just jumping in it. I would be very wary of giving anyone without experience a Radical to drive!

[Porkie]

Furyblade_Lee said:

I would not have said a Radical would be progressive ok the limit!! My only experience of one was a passenger ride In a 1500cc SR4 on slicks at Brands. It was SO fast and grippy with the slicks and aero that any highspeed under or oversteer would need lightning reactions to deal with. I am sure most competent drivers could learn to deal with it, but not Joe Public just jumping in it. I would be very wary of giving anyone without experience a Radical to drive!

Read it again dude. He says 'more progressive than you would think'

In my experience they are pretty progressive actually and if you are competent you would be surprised just how quickly you DO react and correct.

And as far as Joe public in it? well not a Radical but the Palmer Jaguar JP1 is pretty similar kinda tool and I've taken hundreds of people of all driving levels to Palmersport over the years and the people without any experience never get into trouble as they just won't push that hard.... and the cars limits are so high.

[Furyblade_Lee]

Fair comment but that thing felt totally nailed to the road at an insane speed, it was being driven by somebody called (?) Wheldon, he was rather good. I can promise you i had been lapping all day in my Furyblade but was not ready for jump in performace.

[Furyblade_Lee]

Just read the comments on his site. The Clio v6 spun, the E30 M3 blew up and the modified K-series Elise gave them grief, you would not have bet on those results would you......... ;-)

RE: Bike engined cars, i think they went in at the deep end with a Radical!!! I would suggest if they had a factory built Megablade Westfield with Nitrons they would be tinking rather dirrerently about BECs. Just enough power to be seriously impressive, responsive and as fast as you dare drive, while being able to experience proper understeer, oversteer, power-oversteer and 4-wheel drifts if you know what you are doing. And i doubt they would break it, even IF they did a new engine is about £500. Mine survived an RGB racer shifting from max RPM in 3rd back into 2nd while testing it, it just made an horrific noise, went into a neutral then all was normal again! I think that would be a great BEC to hire out.

[rhinochopig]

Furyblade_Lee said:

Just read the comments on his site. The Clio v6 spun, the E30 M3 blew up and the modified K-series Elise gave them grief, you would not have bet on those results would you......... ;-)

RE: Bike engined cars, i think they went in at the deep end with a Radical!!! I would suggest if they had a factory built Megablade Westfield with Nitrons they would be tinking rather dirrerently about BECs. Just enough power to be seriously impressive, responsive and as fast as you dare drive, while being able to experience proper understeer, oversteer, power-oversteer and 4-wheel drifts if you know what you are doing. And i doubt they would break it, even IF they did a new engine is about £500. Mine survived an RGB racer shifting from max RPM in 3rd back into 2nd while testing it, it just made an horrific noise, went into a neutral then all was normal again! I think that would be a great BEC to hire out.

Not so sure TBH. Mine was a factory built (nitron) car. The build quality was poor TBH - it went back an awful lot of times. I had/have virtually every item of Westfield branded clothing - gratis - as apologies.

Whilst it was a fantastic handling car (probably the best I've ever driven), it wasn't worth 22k. I wouldn't own another Westy, or a BEC TBH. They're great if you like tinkering and modifying, but not if you just want to just drive them. As a hired track slag, they'd be a poor prospect IMHO.

[Furyblade_Lee]

My R1 Phoenix ( by me and previous owner / builder) has now done 35+ trackdays, 5 tours of Europe including the Alps and Monte Carlo Rally stages. Nothing serious has ever fallen off or broken in 15,000 miles. Apart from when 2" of snow on the ground, it has never failed to start (just as well really!) Only issue was the diff carrier snapping on an Airfield with a 20 stone passenger when nearly new in 2003, repaired, uprated and modded for all future versions under warranty. Did have a new "crate" engine 2007, but only as going from carb to injection, old engine stil going strong in another car. Just had a new set of shocks after 6 years of abuse. Westfield factory build quality must be iffy, my car was nailed together by a drunken west-country buffoon in his shed ;-)

No it really was.

[rhinochopig]

Furyblade_Lee said:

My R1 Phoenix ( by me and previous owner / builder) has now done 35+ trackdays, 5 tours of Europe including the Alps and Monte Carlo Rally stages. Nothing serious has ever fallen off or broken in 15,000 miles. Apart from when 2" of snow on the ground, it has never failed to start (just as well really!) Only issue was the diff carrier snapping on an Airfield with a 20 stone passenger when nearly new in 2003, repaired, uprated and modded for all future versions under warranty. Did have a new "crate" engine 2007, but only as going from carb to injection, old engine stil going strong in another car. Just had a new set of shocks after 6 years of abuse. Westfield factory build quality must be iffy, my car was nailed together by a drunken west-country buffoon in his shed ;-)

No it really was.

Here's what went wrong with mine.

• Dry sump take-off shaft leaked
• Dry sump shaft leaked again.
• Dry sump shaft leaked a third time. Was sorted eventually though
• Several oil leaks on hoses on the dry sump system.
• Several bits of bodywork replaced due to star cracks around the mounting points - gave up in the end.
• Reverse box removed due to excessive vibration - quite common apparently due to angle of input shaft.
• Gearbox rebuilt due to false neutral causing a drop into gear from 10k.
• (not westy's fault) 3 out of the 4 Nitron's damping adjuster knobs seized - Nitron's response was tough we've stopped making that model.
• Chassis and suspension steel work started rusting after six months.
• Exhaust hanger rubber failed every 6 months.

I could go on, I won't. The thing is, the car was driven with a great deal of mechanical sympathy, mostly in the dry, and on tracks it always had 1 lap warm up, 5 laps, then 1 lap cool down so as not to stress the car too much.

It would not have a received that sympathy as a hire vehicle.

Perhaps I was just unlucky, but I wouldn't buy another BEC again, nor a Westfield. If I get another kit-car it will be a type-r powered z cars monte carlo. BEC performance with none of the hassle. The key element in that decision being the quality of Chris's engineering and finishings.

Don't get me wrong, it WAS a staggeringly quick, easy and fun car to drive. No matter how many times you drove it, it never felt like transport. It was always an occasion.

I do wonder whether the likes of Westy should actually sell them as turnkey cars? It creates the wrong mindset for ownership. Kits tend not be cars that you can just get in, drive, park, and get serviced every six months. They're a far more involving ownership prospect, there are always little jobs that need fixing.

[Porkie]

Furyblade_Lee said:

Fair comment but that thing felt totally nailed to the road at an insane speed, it was being driven by somebody called (?) Wheldon, he was rather good. I can promise you i had been lapping all day in my Furyblade but was not ready for jump in performace.

Dan Wheldon? as in Indy 500 winner and champ car god?!?!?!

Not surprised he was quick!

[Furyblade_Lee]

I'd be preety cheesed off too if that was me! Dry dumps can be a pain in the arse ( I take it yours must have been a busa?) best off I your BEC does not need one. Their reverse box does have a reputation, in contrast the FR2000 mechanic reverse box I had never gave me any grief and was vibration free even at 130 mph, in fact it did a season and a half of RGB racing before I got it!!! The Nitron saga sounds familiar too, same thing happened to a Fury owner, told to just buy another set! Very bad service, especially at their high price. The star cracks and chassis rust are a problem with many kits, but I thought Westfield were above average in this sept, and not BEC specific in this case. You were definately unlucky!

[rhinochopig]

Furyblade_Lee said:

I'd be preety cheesed off too if that was me! Dry dumps can be a pain in the arse ( I take it yours must have been a busa?) best off I your BEC does not need one. Their reverse box does have a reputation, in contrast the FR2000 mechanic reverse box I had never gave me any grief and was vibration free even at 130 mph, in fact it did a season and a half of RGB racing before I got it!!! The Nitron saga sounds familiar too, same thing happened to a Fury owner, told to just buy another set! Very bad service, especially at their high price. The star cracks and chassis rust are a problem with many kits, but I thought Westfield were above average in this sept, and not BEC specific in this case. You were definately unlucky!

It was a blackbird - the busas are less problematic in that respect. In the end I took it off and had the kit car workshop change it to a centre bearing torque tube prop. The difference was night and day - so much smoother. And TBH I never missed having a reverse. If I was ever to go down that route again, I'd go electric reverse - a far simpler lighter solution.

The problem with the DS was that the output shaft wasn't straight. So after fixing, it would be ok, but within a 100 miles or so, it would "ovalise" the oil seal resulting in it leaking. To be fair to westy, it was only very slighter out of true so not an easy spot.

[GnuBee]

Porkie said:

Furyblade_Lee said:

I would not have said a Radical would be progressive ok the limit!! My only experience of one was a passenger ride In a 1500cc SR4 on slicks at Brands. It was SO fast and grippy with the slicks and aero that any highspeed under or oversteer would need lightning reactions to deal with. I am sure most competent drivers could learn to deal with it, but not Joe Public just jumping in it. I would be very wary of giving anyone without experience a Radical to drive!

Read it again dude. He says 'more progressive than you would think'

In my experience they are pretty progressive actually and if you are competent you would be surprised just how quickly you DO react and correct.

And as far as Joe public in it? well not a Radical but the Palmer Jaguar JP1 is pretty similar kinda tool and I've taken hundreds of people of all driving levels to Palmersport over the years and the people without any experience never get into trouble as they just won't push that hard.... and the cars limits are so high.

I wrote the X-List back in the day...

We also run/ran a Palmer JP1 added as the fleet matured and as said above the average driver cannot get anywhere the limits of the car. They are an order of magnitude quicker than the vast majority of cars that most participants will have been exposed to.

My comment about progressive behaviour was related to a specific experience I had in the car at Donington as I exited Redgate; I'm no drifting king but the back end started to come round and it was much, much easier to catch than you'd expect and the loss was very clearly communicated to me!

Edited by GnuBee on Wednesday 29th April 18:48