A biased opinion: '97 S1 boggo elise vs. '01 VX220 (N/A)
Discussion
Well I've come to the lotus forum for a biased opinion.
I'm contemplating going down the lightweight route in the summer. Unfortunately I've only got a modest £7,500 budget so that means, with negotiations, I can hypothetically buy myself an early S1 elise or an early N/A VX220.
I'm concerned about a higher mileage K-Series as despite being told by several people "in the know" that HG failure is no where near as common as reported, I've seen dozens with HG's replaced. The Vauxhall doesn't worry me so much as it'll be considerably newer and a mate said he can do any work that needs doing for peanuts as he works for vauxhall.
I'm not too bothered about straight line speed but in terms of handling how do the two compare?
Also the VX220 looks like it has far more useable power in light of it's torquey engine? Is there any truth in this?
Any input welcomed... But if we could please leave the badge snobbery and comments about appearance at the door it would be appreciated!
I'm contemplating going down the lightweight route in the summer. Unfortunately I've only got a modest £7,500 budget so that means, with negotiations, I can hypothetically buy myself an early S1 elise or an early N/A VX220.
I'm concerned about a higher mileage K-Series as despite being told by several people "in the know" that HG failure is no where near as common as reported, I've seen dozens with HG's replaced. The Vauxhall doesn't worry me so much as it'll be considerably newer and a mate said he can do any work that needs doing for peanuts as he works for vauxhall.
I'm not too bothered about straight line speed but in terms of handling how do the two compare?
Also the VX220 looks like it has far more useable power in light of it's torquey engine? Is there any truth in this?
Any input welcomed... But if we could please leave the badge snobbery and comments about appearance at the door it would be appreciated!
Without wishing to sound unhelpful, its obviously worth trying both. When I bought my 111s the choice initially seemed to be between VX220's and S1's for my budget so I had a good poke around both. I'll stick my neck on the line and say that I prefer the VX to boggo S1's or certainly the ones I tried. I found the engine felt better and the car felt more planted on the road although I'd say the Elise felt noticably more nimble. The VX also felt faster but in reality I don't think there is any difference. Looks are subjective but I had my heart set on a yellow VX lightning with black wheels which I think is a great looking car. I ended up with a 111s as one came up at the right price and I found it more satisfying than both but you may struggle to find one for under £7500.
The Elise's handling is a bit more delicate but the VX220 feels significantly faster in a straight line and better screwed together. I didn't like the VX220's (servo assisted) brakes, but that's just personal preference really.
Personally, I'd probably get a VX220 if it was a daily driver, and an Elise if it wasn't.
Personally, I'd probably get a VX220 if it was a daily driver, and an Elise if it wasn't.
kambites said:
The Elise's handling is a bit more delicate but the VX220 feels significantly faster in a straight line and better screwed together. I didn't like the VX220's (servo assisted) brakes, but that's just personal preference really.
Personally, I'd probably get a VX220 if it was a daily driver, and an Elise if it wasn't.
The vx may feel faster in a straight line but its only a perseption, the S1 is over 150kg lighter and 0-60 is 5.5 over the vx 220 6.1, however slighty quicker to 100. If your thinking of keeping long term Id go for the S1 better long term prospect re value.Personally, I'd probably get a VX220 if it was a daily driver, and an Elise if it wasn't.
Thanks for the input that's very helpful.
I will try and get test drives once I'm passed the "I think I want a new car", but with the fact I'm looking at a private sale hundreds of miles away it pays to know what I'm looking for first.
I think a 111s is out of my budget otherwise that would probably be my preference as well. I'll look for a bargain one that's still straight though!
I'm thinking VX220. It'll be newer, I can get cheap GM parts and I like things that are well screwed together. I also prefer the looks over the S1 (strangely!).
I will try and get test drives once I'm passed the "I think I want a new car", but with the fact I'm looking at a private sale hundreds of miles away it pays to know what I'm looking for first.
I think a 111s is out of my budget otherwise that would probably be my preference as well. I'll look for a bargain one that's still straight though!
I'm thinking VX220. It'll be newer, I can get cheap GM parts and I like things that are well screwed together. I also prefer the looks over the S1 (strangely!).
lamb jiblets said:
The vx may feel faster in a straight line but its only a perseption, the S1 is over 150kg lighter and 0-60 is 5.5 over the vx 220 6.1, however slighty quicker to 100. If your thinking of keeping long term Id go for the S1 better long term prospect re value.
The, admittedly hypothetical, data I have says;Lotus Elise S1 6.44 (0-60) 18.38 (0-100)
Vauxhall VX220 6.36 (0-60) 17.67 (0-100)
EVO magazine have also quoted the VX220 as 5.6 (0-60) and the Elise as 6.1 (0-60). Autotrader states the same.
Very confusing figures. 164 bhp/ton vs. 168 bhp/ton a piece though!
Edited by G_T on Wednesday 29th April 17:50
VX220 is a great car, much underrated. Think of it as an S1.5 Elise. The handling is a bit different but only due to the front wheel diameter - if you swap the wheels for S2 Lotus sized (16" front, 17" rear) then it handles rather like an S2. It's heavier but has a much better engine (as stock - you can make the K into a cracker but it costs money). It's nowhere near as heavy as an S2 Exige, so you're not buying a complete lardbucket of a car.
In the right colours and with decent wheels, I also think the VX is a great looking car and hasn't dated much.
I still miss mine sometimes, even though the S2 Exige is a considerably better car (as befits the years of evolution and quality control)...
In the right colours and with decent wheels, I also think the VX is a great looking car and hasn't dated much.
I still miss mine sometimes, even though the S2 Exige is a considerably better car (as befits the years of evolution and quality control)...
Obvious thing to mention is the safety aspect - the VX will ABS and a driver's airbag, the Elise will not. Only you can decide if this is important to you!
I drove, back to back on the same day, a VX220 turbo and a S2 111R. The difference in handling was very noticeable, with the Elise feeling much more nimble and balanced, the VX felt a bit of a handful in comparison, there is no way I would have chosen the VX over the Elise (in the end I bought a TVR, but that's another story!). Given that the S1 is even more nimble than the S2 (I have also done quite a few miles in a S1 111S), I think that an early S1 will be the better drivers car - but with a few £££ I'm sure the VX could be made almost as good.
I know I'm not describing exactly the cars you are looking at, but hopefully you can extract something useful from the above!
It's a tough call between them - but a good problem to have :-)
Cheers,
Jerry
I drove, back to back on the same day, a VX220 turbo and a S2 111R. The difference in handling was very noticeable, with the Elise feeling much more nimble and balanced, the VX felt a bit of a handful in comparison, there is no way I would have chosen the VX over the Elise (in the end I bought a TVR, but that's another story!). Given that the S1 is even more nimble than the S2 (I have also done quite a few miles in a S1 111S), I think that an early S1 will be the better drivers car - but with a few £££ I'm sure the VX could be made almost as good.
I know I'm not describing exactly the cars you are looking at, but hopefully you can extract something useful from the above!
It's a tough call between them - but a good problem to have :-)
Cheers,
Jerry
All points which have been mentioned are good one and the conparisons between VX and S1 are close. It's worth remembering that this and all based on the standard cars (as they left the factory). The S1 that you would be looking at for your budget are now ten years old or more. You would be hard pressed to find one that has not had some sort of modification, be it engine, suspension or brakes. I'm sure the same could be said for the VX. Keep this in mind when you start looking and test driving. When I bought my S1 I drove test drove five. All drove differently. Find the one that gives you the biggest smile and just feels right for what you want, be it S1 or VX. As for the head gasket on the rover engine, I'd ask the owner if its been done as the likely hood is it has. Hope you enjoy it which ever car you get.
I didn't realise it had ABS until a tad more research last night. That clinches it for me. It's about the only driver's aid I actually feel is useful.
On my budget the VX is; newer, quicker, more reliable (supposedly!), I can get cheaper parts, I reckon it looks better, it has a bigger boot (120l vs. 200l), it'll cost me £300 less to insure and it has ABS/Driver's airbag.
I'm also not really into modifying the engine. I don't have a garage anymore and I've spent so much money down that road in the past I'd rather just save the money and get a few track days under my belt.
I'll still make the effort to drive an S1 but I think it's more likely I'll be shopping for a VX after I've put the Jag up for sale.... Now to convince the Mrs...
On my budget the VX is; newer, quicker, more reliable (supposedly!), I can get cheaper parts, I reckon it looks better, it has a bigger boot (120l vs. 200l), it'll cost me £300 less to insure and it has ABS/Driver's airbag.
I'm also not really into modifying the engine. I don't have a garage anymore and I've spent so much money down that road in the past I'd rather just save the money and get a few track days under my belt.
I'll still make the effort to drive an S1 but I think it's more likely I'll be shopping for a VX after I've put the Jag up for sale.... Now to convince the Mrs...
Edited by G_T on Thursday 30th April 09:23
I've only driven S2 elises and VX turbo, so perhaps I can't comment comprehensively. However, neither S1 nor VX are made any more so I'd be surprised if the VX much is cheaper (or easier) for parts.
If the ABS goes wrong (I believe there have been problems) it'll be big bucks.
VX clams are not available any more which is a problem if you ding it.
If you're going to track it do you want ABS? I think the delicacy of the S1 would win it over the VX for me if I was going to track it regularly.
If the ABS goes wrong (I believe there have been problems) it'll be big bucks.
VX clams are not available any more which is a problem if you ding it.
If you're going to track it do you want ABS? I think the delicacy of the S1 would win it over the VX for me if I was going to track it regularly.
griffter said:
If the ABS goes wrong (I believe there have been problems) it'll be big bucks.
VX clams are not available any more which is a problem if you ding it.
If you're going to track it do you want ABS? I think the delicacy of the S1 would win it over the VX for me if I was going to track it regularly.
In terms of cheaper parts, I'd be getting employee discount through a mate and tbh I'm mostly thinking about the engine.VX clams are not available any more which is a problem if you ding it.
If you're going to track it do you want ABS? I think the delicacy of the S1 would win it over the VX for me if I was going to track it regularly.
I'm afraid I'm one of these people who will argue to the hilt that a modern ABS system is more effective than just about any driver. But I probably best keep that quiet around these parts! And if it fails I can always adopt the other side of the fence!
They don't make the clam anymore? Is that even legal? I though all manufacturers have a legal obligation to provide parts for 20 years after manufacture? (Apart from dodgey sealed-for-life components of course).
HereBeMonsters said:
I have a very similar budget, and have been convinced to try an Elan as well...
I've not driven an Elan (assume you mean M100) but I'd venture that its a totally different experience to an Elise. Obviously its still a fine sportscar and its rare and a Lotus so has a lot of appeal but something like a MK3 MR2 is probably a more appropriate alternative to an Elise or VX.Don't get me started on TVRs.
Every week I smoke cigars and watch a mate rebuild something on his Cerbera whilst he says "nothing else can go wrong". His diff tore itself in half the other week, before that his ECU died, before that his engine blew up, before that the rear anti-roll bar linkage snapped. That's just the last 12 months and the list goes on.
I'm not afraid of a bit of DIY but quite frankly I reckon it'd be cheaper to try and run an old ferrari.
Every week I smoke cigars and watch a mate rebuild something on his Cerbera whilst he says "nothing else can go wrong". His diff tore itself in half the other week, before that his ECU died, before that his engine blew up, before that the rear anti-roll bar linkage snapped. That's just the last 12 months and the list goes on.
I'm not afraid of a bit of DIY but quite frankly I reckon it'd be cheaper to try and run an old ferrari.
G_T said:
lamb jiblets said:
The vx may feel faster in a straight line but its only a perseption, the S1 is over 150kg lighter and 0-60 is 5.5 over the vx 220 6.1, however slighty quicker to 100. If your thinking of keeping long term Id go for the S1 better long term prospect re value.
The, admittedly hypothetical, data I have says;Lotus Elise S1 6.44 (0-60) 18.38 (0-100)
Vauxhall VX220 6.36 (0-60) 17.67 (0-100)
EVO magazine have also quoted the VX220 as 5.6 (0-60) and the Elise as 6.1 (0-60). Autotrader states the same.
Very confusing figures. 164 bhp/ton vs. 168 bhp/ton a piece though!
These figures are from Lotus, I,m sure they kept thrashing them untill they had the quickest times un like evo one run deal.
Edited by G_T on Wednesday 29th April 17:50
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