Rate the current crop of drivers

[Duke of Rothesay]

Hey, no racing this weekend and the FIA stuff has been discussed to death. So how about having some fun rating the drivers. Here is my attempt.

Superstars.

Lewis Hamilton. Amazing car control, a real racer, great entertainment.
Jenson Button. Super smooth, amazing precision, the best in the wet. Allround talent.
Fernando Alonso. The best all round current driver. Has everything.
Felipe Massa. Wrongly under-rated by many. A fast racer.
Kimi Räikkönen. Unbeatable when he bothers to turn up. Ridiculously fast.
Robert Kubica. Amazingly consistent point scoring machine. A future champion.
Sebastian Vettel. Prodigous and precocious talent. Could be the biggest thing in F1.

Past their sell by date (cruel, maybe too cruel).

Mark Webber. All that bad luck. Is it really?
Jarno Trulli. One lap wonder and mobile chicane.
Sebastien Bourdais. Being good in America doesn't cut the mustard with the big boys.
Kazuki Nakajima. Comes with the engine, otherwise he wouldn't get a drive.
Nelsinho Piquet. Had his chances. Too slow to learn.
Giancarlo Fisichella. Nice guy going nowhere.
Rubens Barrichello. Surely only there to bring his experience to development.

Journeymen.

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.
Heikki Kovalainen. Can be fast but not the all round F1 racer.

The jury is out.

Tim O'Glock. Has shone, at times.
Nico Rosberg. Supposedly the second coming but under delivers.
Sebastien Buemi. Early days but looking very good allround. Could become a star.
Adrian Sutil. Rubbish car but moments of genuine talent showing through. Deserves a better drive.

Edited by Duke of Rothesay on Saturday 2nd May 10:54

[Muzzlehatch]

Massa may be fast on a lap, but he certainly shouldn't be mistaken for being a racer. He's a journeyman.

[dom180]

Lol! True maybe in his Sauber days but try telling that to Schumacher or Raikkonen. He beat Schumacher on the track twice from pole in 2006 and if you followed his progress that year, it's probably a good thing for Scumacher's reputation, that he retired (or should that be eased out by Luca di Montezemolo) when he did.

Muzzlehatch said:

Massa may be fast on a lap, but he certainly shouldn't be mistaken for being a racer. He's a journeyman.

Edited by dom180 on Saturday 2nd May 13:08

[rsole]

Not a particular fan of Massa, but don't get the constant knocking which seems to be on here quite a lot. In fairness he beat Kimi last year head to head in quali, won more races than anyone else and nearly won the WDC. Give him his due he has improved from his wilder days at Sauber. Based on what Kimi earns i know who i'd choose.

Crap in the wet - yea British GP was a bit of a shocker - on the flip side, pole at Monaco in the wet, running 3rd in China before stopping...

[homer3uk]

I like massa, Maybe not the greatest driver the grid has ever seen but he is at least willing to listen to others around him to progress his talent and carreer. IMHO should have won last years WC. Pushed Hamilton (who had a superior car) all the way. If not for problems caused by the stupid pit set up and early season reliability he would have strolled to the championship.
Often out performing his moody arse of a team mate. If anyone deserves a competitive car it is he!
Fillepe Baby!!!!!

[mattikake]

Duke of Rothesay said:

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.

No problem with most of your evalution, but your comment on Nick Heidfeld couldn't be more wrong. I could go into many details, but it's probably easier to say just to compare teammate stats (and take into consideration tyre manufacturer changes).

Heidfeld is also superb in the wet. Never makes mistakes and always finds loads of speed. 2nd only to Hamilton, and could even better than him. Check his performances. And remember, wet wether driving is probably THE single best way of measuring a drivers ability, as has been historically proven time and time again *without* exception...

[mattikake]

homer3uk said:

IMHO should have won last years WC. Pushed Hamilton (who had a superior car) all the way.

Wrong. Go to the back of the class.

By what measure (other than ignorance, being a hamilton hater or massa lover) was the McLaren better than the Ferrari in '08? Explain.

[rsole]

mattikake said:

Duke of Rothesay said:

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.

No problem with most of your evalution, but your comment on Nick Heidfeld couldn't be more wrong. I could go into many details, but it's probably easier to say just to compare teammate stats (and take into consideration tyre manufacturer changes).

Heidfeld is also superb in the wet. Never makes mistakes and always finds loads of speed. 2nd only to Hamilton, and could even better than him. Check his performances. And remember, wet wether driving is probably THE single best way of measuring a drivers ability, as has been historically proven time and time again *without* exception...

With regard to the wet weather performance - 2nd only to Hamilton and possibly better?? I assume that's a joke?!!

[Munter]

mattikake said:

homer3uk said:

IMHO should have won last years WC. Pushed Hamilton (who had a superior car) all the way.

Wrong. Go to the back of the class.

By what measure (other than ignorance, being a hamilton hater or massa lover) was the McLaren better than the Ferrari in '08? Explain.

I agree the Ferrari at the end of last year was the better car. Hamilton was what kept the McLaren near it.

[TheStig44]

I agree with the bit about Kimi. When hes 'there', hes by far the quickest driver on the track. How many fastest laps did he get last season? 15 if i remember correctly, thats seriously impressive.

What the feck is Piquet still doing with an F1 seat... he should have been outed a while ago. Sebastien Bourdais (sp?) isn't much better either.

Also for a reasons unknown to me, I have a soft spot for Nick Heidfeld...

[mchammer89]

Think it was 11 fastest laps last season, two thirds of the races, hugely impressive, pretty much agree with all your driver evaluations, Kovi is a nice guy, but should get the boot, same as Piquet (obviously).

[Duke of Rothesay]

mattikake said:

Duke of Rothesay said:

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.

No problem with most of your evalution, but your comment on Nick Heidfeld couldn't be more wrong. I could go into many details, but it's probably easier to say just to compare teammate stats (and take into consideration tyre manufacturer changes).

Heidfeld is also superb in the wet. Never makes mistakes and always finds loads of speed. 2nd only to Hamilton, and could even better than him. Check his performances. And remember, wet wether driving is probably THE single best way of measuring a drivers ability, as has been historically proven time and time again *without* exception...

I thought that it was pretty universally recognised in F1 that Button is by far the best in the wet. Some say ever.

[John D.]

Duke of Rothesay said:

mattikake said:

Duke of Rothesay said:

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.

No problem with most of your evalution, but your comment on Nick Heidfeld couldn't be more wrong. I could go into many details, but it's probably easier to say just to compare teammate stats (and take into consideration tyre manufacturer changes).

Heidfeld is also superb in the wet. Never makes mistakes and always finds loads of speed. 2nd only to Hamilton, and could even better than him. Check his performances. And remember, wet wether driving is probably THE single best way of measuring a drivers ability, as has been historically proven time and time again *without* exception...

I thought that it was pretty universally recognised in F1 that Button is by far the best in the wet. Some say ever.

He's very good but that may be going a bit far. Smooth style definately pays dividends. A dust up between him and Hamilton in equal equipment however, my money would be on Hamilton because he's a better racer.

[DaveShark]

Mark Webber: Yep his luck really is awful. Finally he has a great car, only to be teamed with most prodigious talent since Michael Schumacher. Im looking forward to Monaco though, lots of drivers in different cars all with a shout. Anyone remember Monaco 2005? Webber's Williams pushed Alonso & Kimi all the way (until his car went bang of course).

[dom180]

He was unlucky to break his leg but if Vettel's the real deal then Mark looks pretty good - can't wait to see how he goes towards mid-season once he's fully recovered.

In the past I think he's looked bad as he's tended to put less than great cars above their natural grid slot so in the races, the only way is back down the field - this year with a reliable car he's proved he's a finisher and he's driven well in the wet.

Weight corrected (and remember the current regs favour a lighter Vettel)in qualifying he compares well to Vettel.

DaveShark said:

Mark Webber: Yep his luck really is awful. Finally he has a great car, only to be teamed with most prodigious talent since Michael Schumacher. Im looking forward to Monaco though, lots of drivers in different cars all with a shout. Anyone remember Monaco 2005? Webber's Williams pushed Alonso & Kimi all the way (until his car went bang of course).

[Duke of Rothesay]

John D. said:

Duke of Rothesay said:

mattikake said:

Duke of Rothesay said:

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.

No problem with most of your evalution, but your comment on Nick Heidfeld couldn't be more wrong. I could go into many details, but it's probably easier to say just to compare teammate stats (and take into consideration tyre manufacturer changes).

Heidfeld is also superb in the wet. Never makes mistakes and always finds loads of speed. 2nd only to Hamilton, and could even better than him. Check his performances. And remember, wet wether driving is probably THE single best way of measuring a drivers ability, as has been historically proven time and time again *without* exception...

I thought that it was pretty universally recognised in F1 that Button is by far the best in the wet. Some say ever.

He's very good but that may be going a bit far. Smooth style definately pays dividends. A dust up between him and Hamilton in equal equipment however, my money would be on Hamilton because he's a better racer.

Button cleanly had Hamilton at Bahrain this year.

When Button was Karting he won all 34 races of the 1991 British Cadet Kart Championship, so he must be some racer.

In 2007 Button had what was universally recognised to be a dog of a car, so he was forced to run in the highly competetive middle order. Yet at both the British and Turkish races he managed to make up 8 places by the finish and in China he made up 5 places. And remember he did not have the benefit of the blue flag for his overtakes like Hamilton mainly did.
In 2008 his car was even more of a dog. Yet he made up 8 places again, this time at the Canadian GP. In Spain he made up 7 places and 3 times he made up 4 places, in Italy, Japan and Brazil.

So I would put it that over that last two years there can be very few drivers who have actually raced as well as Button. But because he wasn't at the front nobody noticed.

Edited by Duke of Rothesay on Saturday 2nd May 18:44

[LanCat]

Superstars.

Lewis Hamilton. The best overtaker?
Fernando Alonso. The most complete.
Kimi Räikkönen. The best if he can be bothered.
Sebastian Vettel. Seb vs. Lewis will keep us interested for years to come.
Jenson Button. Not just because of this year.

Very good and deserve a place on the grid

Felipe Massa. Fragile but fast?
Robert Kubica. Is it just me who thinks he's over-rated?
Mark Webber. Will he ever win a race?
Nick Heidfeld. The perfect #2, will he ever win a race?
Heikki Kovalainen. Talented but lacks determination?
Tim O'Glock. Could move up to stardom but not in a Toyota
Nico Rosberg. Hasn't lived up to expectations

Past their sell by date.

Jarno Trulli. Seems to have forgotten racecraft
Sebastien Bourdais. Proof that Indycars are not a route to F1.
Kazuki Nakajima. Keeping good drivers out of a seat.
Nelsinho Piquet. Just not up to it
Giancarlo Fisichella. Should have gone a couple of years ago.
Rubens Barrichello. It pains me but the time has come.

The jury is out.

Sebastien Buemi. Great start.
Adrian Sutil. Unlucky but also struggled sometimes.

Why don't they have a seat?

Ant Davidson.
Takuma Sato.
Paul di Resta.

[dom180]

>>So I would put it that over that last two years there can be very few drivers who have actually raced as well as Button. But because he wasn't at the front nobody noticed.

Button didn't do himself many favours last year with some of his drivers. And he's hardly compared brilliantly to some of his previous team-mates - maybe in a good car with no pressure from a competitive second driver he can do it but I'm sure half the grid could do the same job though - if fact Jenson's lost one race this year, maybe some of the other drivers would have won that one in a Brawn.

[stephen300o]

People being very charitable to Heikki.

[mattikake]

rsole said:

mattikake said:

Duke of Rothesay said:

Nick Heidfeld. Quick Nick, but always beaten by his team mate.

No problem with most of your evalution, but your comment on Nick Heidfeld couldn't be more wrong. I could go into many details, but it's probably easier to say just to compare teammate stats (and take into consideration tyre manufacturer changes).

Heidfeld is also superb in the wet. Never makes mistakes and always finds loads of speed. 2nd only to Hamilton, and could even better than him. Check his performances. And remember, wet wether driving is probably THE single best way of measuring a drivers ability, as has been historically proven time and time again *without* exception...

With regard to the wet weather performance - 2nd only to Hamilton and possibly better?? I assume that's a joke?!!

No. If you mean that LH isn't the best in the wet, than that's subjective and I say fair enough, you opinion.

If, however, you mean that NH isn't [arguably] as good as the [the best] current went racer, then I say you need to go and educate yourself. There are many ways you can do this. You could go to Formula1.com and have a look at some stats, you could watch the races again or even pay attention to the races etc.?