Tuesday 25th November 2003

Speed Kills

US States with higher limits count the cost in lives

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A stufy by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has concluded that American states which raised their speed limits to 70 or 75mph have incurred a significantly higher number of deaths.

The IIHS report is based on data from 22 states which implemented limits of 70mph or higher. It covers the period from 1996 to 1999.

States with new 70-mph speed limits incurred a death rate of an incredible 35 percent higher than states with 65-mph limits. States with 75-mph limits had death rates 38 percent higher than the 65-mph states.

That said, the report also revealed that drivers in Atlanta paid little heed to speed limits anyway. 78% of drivers in the city exceeded 70mph on the interstate highway with a 55mph limit.

[ErnestM]

the IIHS said:

78% of drivers in the city exceeded 70mph on the interstate highway with a 55mph limit

...and the other 22% exceeded 100 mph. Trust me...

ErnestM

[Plotloss]

Its all true.

Sit on 285 at 85mph and Artics go past you like you were standing still.

[m-five]

Those statistics are worrying because for a 5mph rise from 65mph to 70mph there is a 35% rise in deaths, but the next 5mph to 75mph there is only a 3% rise in deaths - hence the trend shows that if you do 8mph there will be a -32% rise in deaths!

[Richard C]

The Insurance Institute are hardly an unbiased organisation. Be sure that these figures are twisted to suit their preconceptions. It was they who pushed for lower limits and funded the laser speed guns.

I do not have the figures but recall that when the 55 limits were introduced that the 'killed' went down but the number of accidents and 'serioulsy injureds' went up by a much higher figure.

[v8thunder]

I think there's a major problem with the way these kind of statistics are dealt with, ie by numpties who don't know anything about cars. Look at the majority of American cars - unresponsive, over-cosseting, electric everything - the driver isn't geared towards paying attention is a machine like that, and even when the situation demands it, most Yank Tanks respond with the snappy coherence of a partially-set jelly. In the same way, British accidents, I'm sure, are contributed to by the proliferation of humps, scameras, slaloms, varying limits and a whole load of distractions all based around the numpty mantra 'speed kills'

[Swilly]

m-five said:

Those statistics are worrying because for a 5mph rise from 65mph to 70mph there is a 35% rise in deaths, but the next 5mph to 75mph there is only a 3% rise in deaths - hence the trend shows that if you do 8mph there will be a -32% rise in deaths!

I would re-read the article.

It does appear, according to the end of the article, that no ones really follows the speed limit anyway.

So, the fact that the limit has been changed whether up or down has little to do with the actual real life speeds that drivers are doing and its also very likely the limit change has no impact on the skill and ability shown by the drivers.

What would happen if the limit was upped to 200 mph or reduced to 25mph?
Bugger all i suspect.

[FunkyNige]

v8thunder said:

I think there's a major problem with the way these kind of statistics are dealt with, ie by numpties who don't know anything about cars.

I don't think they know much about statistics either; we have NO more information on what states these were (raising the limit to 75 in Alaska is just asking for trouble), or what caused these accidets (a hurricane could've killed some people in their cars and I'm sure they would be counted as road deaths).

[LRdriver II]

so basically there is almost no diference btw 70 and 75 then?

[Mr2Mike]

LRdriver II said:

so basically there is almost no diference btw 70 and 75 then?

Hardly any. (138-135)/135 * 100% = 2.2% increase in death rate by going from 70 to 75mph. The article is cunningly worded to make it sound like a huge amount.

[grahambell]

Surprised to see this as the S.A.F.E.R. site has a link to a US article stating that since speed limits were raised, accident figures had reduced to the lowest level ever.

Maybe it's just been a bad year or the figures have been twisted.

[Deadly Dog]

Swilly said:

It does appear, according to the end of the article, that no ones really follows the speed limit anyway. So, the fact that the limit has been changed whether up or down has little to do with the actual real life speeds that drivers are doing and its also very likely the limit change has no impact on the skill and ability shown by the drivers.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has long advocated the use of photo-radar, even when there have been valid challenges to the system concerning violation of constitutional rights.

I have driven regulary on the I94 in Michigan in excess of 80mph and been passed by much faster traffic, mostly on Illinois plates! Out-of-staters just don't care! And with no ill effects.

The definitive study on high speeds in the US has to be the Montana "autobahn" situation where there was no highway speed limit for a time. During this time the accident figures dipped to an all-time low. When the speed limits were restored, accidents and deaths INCREASED dramatically.

[Miguel]

To add to what Richard C. said, it's to the insurance companies' advantage to have lower speed limits in the US, since getting a speeding ticket here will get your insurance premiums increased. As he stated, insurance companies are definitely biased.

Richard C said:

The Insurance Institute are hardly an unbiased organisation. Be sure that these figures are twisted to suit their preconceptions. It was they who pushed for lower limits and funded the laser speed guns. I do not have the figures but recall that when the 55 limits were introduced that the 'killed' went down but the number of accidents and 'serioulsy injureds' went up by a much higher figure.

[Miguel]

Graham Bell said:

Surprised to see this as the S.A.F.E.R. site has a link to a US article stating that since speed limits were raised, accident figures had reduced to the lowest level ever. Maybe it's just been a bad year or the figures have been twisted.

I'd be willing to bet heavily on the latter.

[Ultimasimon]

95% of statistics are made up

[IanReid]

Richard C said:

The Insurance Institute are hardly an unbiased organisation. Be sure that these figures are twisted to suit their preconceptions. It was they who pushed for lower limits and funded the laser speed guns. I do not have the figures but recall that when the 55 limits were introduced that the 'killed' went down but the number of accidents and 'serioulsy injureds' went up by a much higher figure.

Indeed these people are hardly unbiased. The fact that most of this is spin can be seen from the following press release
www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/1998/pressdisplay.cfm?year=1998&filename=pr051498.html

Which contains the telling paragraph:-

"The number of crash-related injuries also declined between 1996 and 1997 while the total number of traffic deaths, 42,000, remained steady in the face of increased travel, higher speed limits and changes in the vehicle fleet, according to the preliminary 1997 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) report by the department's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)."


oh and "Sixty-three percent of those killed were not wearing seat belts."

Do you think they're shooting at the wrong target.

The report referred to in the document actually comes from some people in New Zealand. You can order it from them, maybe tricky if you are in UK, I haven't tried. Here is the url if you are interested

www.ltsa.govt.nz/publications/nzrss-2002/data-analysis.html

A cursory analysis of their website will reveal that these people are full on safety nazis.

[sparkyjohn]

Ultimasimon said:

95% of statistics are made up

110% of those relating to speeding